Tires, Yet Again

[Ridgerez]

Happy Turkey everyone.

Lexus recommends 205/65 r15, 94V for the '90 LS400, but I can't seem to find these specs in Michelin Exalto A/S. The lady at Sears says it can be special ordered for $149 each and then I HAVE to get an alignment for the warranty to kick in. I checked the Sears site and saw this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_0...sName=All+Tires

However, the speed rating is "H"

My question is, what are the real life differences between V and H speed rated tires? Especially, considering I won't ever drive near 100 MPH. Sears lady says H rating is a much inferior ride to the V rated...I tend not to believe her.

[IS400]

205 is recommended, but a little thin for such a sizable car IMO. Try getting some 215s at least. I've run 225's with no problem for years. No rubbing at all. They look great from the back and have nice grip when I get a little hot in the turns.

Try looking at kumos (sp). They are always a great deal and have an awesome reputation. Extasia I think is the model of kumo tires that I put on my 17's for summer.

You are right about the H rating. She is trying to upsell you or at least get you in what tires she has in stock to make a sale.

If you are paying over $100 for 15 inch tires, you my dear, are getting ripped off.

[Sanpete]

The V-rated tires will (or ought to) have stronger sidewalls, which will give better performance, though probably not a quieter or softer ride--probably slightly less. Suspensions are designed to go with tires with a certain degree of give, but I doubt there would be any sigificant trouble going with an H-rated, especially if you keep them properly inflated. I may get some H-rated tires for my 98, which also calls for V-rated, for similar reasons--can't find the tires I'm interested in V-rated.

[1990LS400]

Lexus has lately been using H rated tires on the LS and I would certainly hope that you would not come even close to exceeding their 130 mph limit.

I used 225/60-15 tires for several years on the 1990 LS I used to have. They fit the 6.5 inch wide wheels just fine. 6" wide wheels, if I remember correctly, are the minimum wheel width for 225 tires but it might be even 5.5 inches so you would be well within the limit.

You will get a bit more harshness and noise with 225/60-15 but the speedometer will be perfectly accurate and braking will be much better. And it is just about impossible to "curb" your OEM 1990 LS wheels with 225/60-15 tires since the tire sidewall with hit the curb first. Lots of advantages.

[SRK]

I have 225-55/16 Exalto's on my 92 LS using the wheels from a 94. They are H rated, and are amazing. Anyone who tells you there is a significant performance difference between H and V doesn't understand the tire ratings at all.

[aarman4]

Straight from the Discount tire website:

A tire receives its speed rating by the U.S. Government through meeting minimum standards for reaching and sustaining a specified speed. What does that mean to you? Well, in general, a higher speed rating will result in better car handling.

Two Important Notes When Considering Speed Rating:

• We do not recommend downgrading the speed rating of your tires. This may result in poor handling and unpredictable steering. However, if you want better cornering response, there is no problem installing a higher speed rated tire on your vehicle.

• Tire manufacturers recommend not mixing and matching tires with different speed ratings on your vehicle. It is recommended that speed-rated tires be replaced in sets of 4. If replaced in pairs, the new tires should be of the same or higher speed rating. If tires with different speed ratings are installed on a vehicle, it is recommended that they be installed with like pairs on the same axle. It is highly recommended the lower speed-rated tires be place on the front axle, regardless of which axle is the drive axle, to help prevent oversteer. (Oversteer occurs when the vehicle loses traction at the rear tires first, causing the vehicle to spin and the driver to lose control.) The speed rating for all tires will become that of the lowest speed-rated tire on the vehicle.

Below is a list of speed ratings along with the corresponding speeds they represent. Remember, the speeds are test speeds, not recommended speeds.

Q- Up to 100mph

R- Up to 106mph

S- Up to 112mph

T- Up to 118mph

U- Up to 124mph

H- Up to 130mph

V- Up to 149mph

W- Up to 168mph

Y- Up to 186mph

Z- 149mph and over

Being Canadian, I KNOW the whole country is being ripped off because I would be jumping for joy to find some comforttreads, pilots, or turanza serenity's up here for even under $160....

It also looked as if they saved all of the "X-rated" rubber for the condom industry.....

Any canadians here know the duty laws for getting tired in the states???

[tgcLS430]

Straight from the Discount tire website:

A tire receives its speed rating by the U.S. Government through meeting minimum standards for reaching and sustaining a specified speed. What does that mean to you? Well, in general, a higher speed rating will result in better car handling.

Two Important Notes When Considering Speed Rating:

• We do not recommend downgrading the speed rating of your tires. This may result in poor handling and unpredictable steering. However, if you want better cornering response, there is no problem installing a higher speed rated tire on your vehicle.

• Tire manufacturers recommend not mixing and matching tires with different speed ratings on your vehicle. It is recommended that speed-rated tires be replaced in sets of 4. If replaced in pairs, the new tires should be of the same or higher speed rating. If tires with different speed ratings are installed on a vehicle, it is recommended that they be installed with like pairs on the same axle. It is highly recommended the lower speed-rated tires be place on the front axle, regardless of which axle is the drive axle, to help prevent oversteer. (Oversteer occurs when the vehicle loses traction at the rear tires first, causing the vehicle to spin and the driver to lose control.) The speed rating for all tires will become that of the lowest speed-rated tire on the vehicle.

Below is a list of speed ratings along with the corresponding speeds they represent. Remember, the speeds are test speeds, not recommended speeds.

Q- Up to 100mph

R- Up to 106mph

S- Up to 112mph

T- Up to 118mph

U- Up to 124mph

H- Up to 130mph

V- Up to 149mph

W- Up to 168mph

Y- Up to 186mph

Z- 149mph and over

Being Canadian, I KNOW the whole country is being ripped off because I would be jumping for joy to find some comforttreads, pilots, or turanza serenity's up here for even under $160....

It also looked as if they saved all of the "X-rated" rubber for the condom industry.....

Any canadians here know the duty laws for getting tired in the states???

[GKLCPA]

I recently changed my tires. The previous owner had S rated tires on the car. The one's I put on were H rated and they ride just fine. I don't think I'll be going 130 mph anytime some, let alone the speed rated associated with V rated tires. I got some Sumitomo's and I'm happy with them and the pricing was decent (about 80 per installed)

Straight from the Discount tire website:

A tire receives its speed rating by the U.S. Government through meeting minimum standards for reaching and sustaining a specified speed. What does that mean to you? Well, in general, a higher speed rating will result in better car handling.

Two Important Notes When Considering Speed Rating:

• We do not recommend downgrading the speed rating of your tires. This may result in poor handling and unpredictable steering. However, if you want better cornering response, there is no problem installing a higher speed rated tire on your vehicle.

• Tire manufacturers recommend not mixing and matching tires with different speed ratings on your vehicle. It is recommended that speed-rated tires be replaced in sets of 4. If replaced in pairs, the new tires should be of the same or higher speed rating. If tires with different speed ratings are installed on a vehicle, it is recommended that they be installed with like pairs on the same axle. It is highly recommended the lower speed-rated tires be place on the front axle, regardless of which axle is the drive axle, to help prevent oversteer. (Oversteer occurs when the vehicle loses traction at the rear tires first, causing the vehicle to spin and the driver to lose control.) The speed rating for all tires will become that of the lowest speed-rated tire on the vehicle.

Below is a list of speed ratings along with the corresponding speeds they represent. Remember, the speeds are test speeds, not recommended speeds.

Q- Up to 100mph

R- Up to 106mph

S- Up to 112mph

T- Up to 118mph

U- Up to 124mph

H- Up to 130mph

V- Up to 149mph

W- Up to 168mph

Y- Up to 186mph

Z- 149mph and over

Being Canadian, I KNOW the whole country is being ripped off because I would be jumping for joy to find some comforttreads, pilots, or turanza serenity's up here for even under $160....

It also looked as if they saved all of the "X-rated" rubber for the condom industry.....

Any canadians here know the duty laws for getting tired in the states???

[ROBERT THOMASON]

2000 LS400 with Mich. Hrated tires and am very happy.

[BlackLex]

I have 225-55/16 Exalto's on my 92 LS using the wheels from a 94. They are H rated, and are amazing. Anyone who tells you there is a significant performance difference between H and V doesn't understand the tire ratings at all.

963

So! autombile manufactures are just blowing smoke up are wazoo's when they recommend tire ratings?

are you a professional ? Do you know that some REPUTABLE tire dealers WILL NOT mount tires that are NOT specified

by the oem pro's . I am glad that I put on tires that were recommended by my cars manufactory experts .

I evaded a deer on the enterstate at 75 mph . I swerved instinctavely and the tires I had on I am sure saved my life and

my wife's life WhileI was fishtailing down the freeway. I never go or want to go over the speed limit . but come on now

v rated tires are rated for the weight and safety of the car . if I had those H rated tires on my car that night I would't be

be here now for sure. pay attention to the experts . They are the ones that test drive the individual car and know whats is

most safe . It's laughable when I here some one say about a v rated tire .. Why do ya need them .. are gonna go 150 mph. get real.

[Ridgerez]

Thanks folks for very helpful comments. I'm taking IS400's advise to up the width from 205 to 215. Will look nice on my baby since she has BSR wheels with the wire look.

Aarman4 makes a good point for sticking with the V rating, especially since I'm doing 215 width. But guess what, can't find 215/65 r15 v rated, at least not at Sears or

Oh well, back to searching again.

[SRK]

So! autombile manufactures are just blowing smoke up are wazoo's when they recommend tire ratings?

are you a professional ? Do you know that some REPUTABLE tire dealers WILL NOT mount tires that are NOT specified

by the oem pro's . I am glad that I put on tires that were recommended by my cars manufactory experts .

I evaded a deer on the enterstate at 75 mph . I swerved instinctavely and the tires I had on I am sure saved my life and

my wife's life WhileI was fishtailing down the freeway. I never go or want to go over the speed limit . but come on now

v rated tires are rated for the weight and safety of the car . if I had those H rated tires on my car that night I would't be

be here now for sure. pay attention to the experts . They are the ones that test drive the individual car and know whats is

most safe . It's laughable when I here some one say about a v rated tire .. Why do ya need them .. are gonna go 150 mph. get real.

It's a SPEED rating, which relates to the temperature the tire carcass achieves while driving at high speed. It has nothing to do with handling. It is one of the most abused and mis-understood ratings ever applied to tires. Certainly Costco ( and probably Tirerack) advise the higher speed ratings because of US liability laws - and a 19 year old with pimples is not going to tell me which I require, which is the kind of "expert" that I find at Costco.

And yes, I'm a professional, whatever that means in your lexicon. I have installed and balanced more tires than you have had hot lunches.

[Sanpete]

The speed rating isn't a performance rating, except as to speed, but the requirements of high speed do typically affect performance even at lower speeds. The higher speed-rated tires generally have stiffer, more highly reinforced sidewalls, both to help reduce deformation, which causes heat, and to provide safe handling at high speed, where the sideways forces on sidewalls are increased (for the same maneuvers). A car's suspension is designed to work best with tires of a certain stiffness, but there's obviously a lot of leeway.

Tire sites have lots of things to say about this, ranging from "speed ratings have nothing to do with performance" (only technically true) to "higher speed ratings give better performance" (which is an overgeneralization at best--handling may typically improve some, but ride probably will suffer a bit). Some tidbits:

From http://www.kumhousa.com/tireRSG.do:

A common Trade-Off for higher Speed-Rating is reduced Ride Comfort. An "S" Speed-Rated tire will give a more comfortable Ride compared to "H" Speed-Rated tire, and a "H" Speed-Rated tire will give a more comfortable Ride compared to a "Z" Speed-Rated tire. The Ride Comfort Characteristics can be attributed to the tire's Overall Stiffness. A tire capable of running at High Speeds requires a more stiff construction, in order to provide the necessary high speed stability & durability.

From http://www.wheelstudio.com/tire_speed_ratings.php:

Also, while speed ratings are not a direct indicator of tire handling capabilities, it is generally true that a higher rating may translate to different handling characteristics. If you decrease the speed rating, you must ensure that you are familiar with the handling characteristics of your vehicle and adjust your driving to the lower rating.

[SRK]

That's a reasonable statement Sanpete and I agree with it in general.

Here's what happened with my LS. When I bought it the stock 205/65-15 tires were mounted - old ones, older technology. I went to Michelin 215/65-15 H rated tires and the change was dramatic - excellent ride, slightly squishy handling, but certainly good handling, and better than stock. Last month I installed 16 inch wheels, using my own choice of tires - different from the 225/60 the 93 LS's used - I installed 225/55-16 H rated. The Exalto's as previously explained on this site, are as exceptional a tire as I have ever used, the handling is absolutely transformed, the ride is still excellent, and the car feels completely different. My point is that the tire size change produced a more dramatic change in handling that the speed ratings would or could have in each case.

When one considers the extreme wheel and tire combinations installed on all sorts of vehicles ( like the goofy wheels and tires Unique Performance installs as part of the "bling" packages they offer - how that show got on TV is beyond me....) the changes brought about by those changes are dramatic and at times downright dangerous, and speed ratings pale in comparison. Just varying tire pressures 5-8 psi will change the tire's characteristics more than a speed rating, and I see people driving about blithely with a tire or two well under pressure simply because they don't check them regularly.

So concentrating on speed ratings as though all of the safety factors are met through it alone is not wise. Tire size, pressure, wheel diameter have far greater influence.

Some years ago I built a 427 Cobra replica. Built the whole thing. Installed Goodrich tires - S rated, and m/s for mud and snow. I entered it in solo motorsport events and at one event the Porsche club showed up. I remember watching them as a group -all 14 of them- approach my parked Cobra and look at it. One of them shouted to the others - "it's got mud and snow tires on it!!!" They all laughed. Three hours later I had beaten 13 of them in the event with my Cobra - only a 930 Turbo got me. They weren't laughing.

[Sanpete]

Yeah, I'm sure you're right that size and other factors make a more obvious difference. I'll probably end up with H-rated in the stock size, and I won't be worried about it. I occasional load up my car, so I'll be sure to meet or exceed the rating for weight.

That Cobra must have been a blast. I've seen 'em, but never been in one.

[IS400]

Very sneaky with those snow tires! I bet you did not tell them they have a softer compound because with winter temps normal compounds get too hard and don't allow the tire to grip properly and release snow/mud from the tread.

Not a bad idea compared to what racing soft compound tires cost. Thanks for the tip!

That's a reasonable statement Sanpete and I agree with it in general.

Here's what happened with my LS. When I bought it the stock 205/65-15 tires were mounted - old ones, older technology. I went to Michelin 215/65-15 H rated tires and the change was dramatic - excellent ride, slightly squishy handling, but certainly good handling, and better than stock. Last month I installed 16 inch wheels, using my own choice of tires - different from the 225/60 the 93 LS's used - I installed 225/55-16 H rated. The Exalto's as previously explained on this site, are as exceptional a tire as I have ever used, the handling is absolutely transformed, the ride is still excellent, and the car feels completely different. My point is that the tire size change produced a more dramatic change in handling that the speed ratings would or could have in each case.

When one considers the extreme wheel and tire combinations installed on all sorts of vehicles ( like the goofy wheels and tires Unique Performance installs as part of the "bling" packages they offer - how that show got on TV is beyond me....) the changes brought about by those changes are dramatic and at times downright dangerous, and speed ratings pale in comparison. Just varying tire pressures 5-8 psi will change the tire's characteristics more than a speed rating, and I see people driving about blithely with a tire or two well under pressure simply because they don't check them regularly.

So concentrating on speed ratings as though all of the safety factors are met through it alone is not wise. Tire size, pressure, wheel diameter have far greater influence.

Some years ago I built a 427 Cobra replica. Built the whole thing. Installed Goodrich tires - S rated, and m/s for mud and snow. I entered it in solo motorsport events and at one event the Porsche club showed up. I remember watching them as a group -all 14 of them- approach my parked Cobra and look at it. One of them shouted to the others - "it's got mud and snow tires on it!!!" They all laughed. Three hours later I had beaten 13 of them in the event with my Cobra - only a 930 Turbo got me. They weren't laughing.

[SRK]

Well not so much sneaky - more that I had run out of money after building the rest of the car! But it did have traction.

;)

[IS400]

What I meant was that most porsche owners paid for their cars and that is about all they know about cars. When they are told they need track tires, they get them, but do not know why. Just that everyone else uses them.

The neat part is that you had the traction of competition tires but to them it looked like you would have less performance; due to their lack of knowledge of what makes a snow tire work great in summer for cornering and launches.

I've found porsche owners are pretty arrogant, until I get their pants down. Then it is me just giggling at what drove them to buy a porshe in the first place! Tiny little thing!

Nice work building your own cobra. I like them for the vibrations , but long drives tend to just leave me windburned and my hair full of knots. Fun for short blasts though!

Well not so much sneaky - more that I had run out of money after building the rest of the car! But it did have traction.

;)

[Ridgerez]

What I meant was that most porsche owners paid for their cars and that is about all they know about cars. When they are told they need track tires, they get them, but do not know why. Just that everyone else uses them.

The neat part is that you had the traction of competition tires but to them it looked like you would have less performance; due to their lack of knowledge of what makes a snow tire work great in summer for cornering and launches.

I've found porsche owners are pretty arrogant, until I get their pants down. Then it is me just giggling at what drove them to buy a porshe in the first place! Tiny little thing!

Nice work building your own cobra. I like them for the vibrations , but long drives tend to just leave me windburned and my hair full of knots. Fun for short blasts though!

Well not so much sneaky - more that I had run out of money after building the rest of the car! But it did have traction.

;)

HI IS400,

Its a no brainer. This is my choice, I'll be ordering tomorrow: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_0...s&sName=Car

And to all of you, thanks for ya insights. I've a learned a lot from these exchages.

[SRK]

Hi Ridgerez - You'll not be dissapointed with that choice of tire. They'll handle great in every respect.

Hi IS400 - You appear to like boats - I sold the Cobra in order to buy another boat, and I have a 42 foot Uniflite with two large diesels. If you are ever on the West Coast...... :D

[IS400]

I like tanning on boats. Drinking on boats. s*x on boats.

All the things you cannot do properly in cars! I'm sure tanning weather in b.c is pretty short. I'd have to give up my bikinis for long johns! I hope you got a good deal on your 42 footer. My 25 footer was a steal after the owner found out his wife wanted a divorce. Boating is fun as long as someone else is paying for the gas. Especially diesel now. What did you name her? Mine is named 'Barbie Doll' for obvious reasons.

Hi Ridgerez - You'll not be dissapointed with that choice of tire. They'll handle great in every respect.

Hi IS400 - You appear to like boats - I sold the Cobra in order to buy another boat, and I have a 42 foot Uniflite with two large diesels. If you are ever on the West Coast...... :D

[SRK]

Well your boat is aptly named!! The Uniflite is "Bluewater" which is apt for the west coast - it can get rough out here. But BC has great summers, especially in Desolation Sound, where the sea water can get to 70F. due to a strange tidal action and a dry Mediterranean micro-climate. So July and August are very good.

She's got 600 horsepower total - I don't run her at full power much - that's a lot of fuel. There is no engine noise like that made by Detroit Diesels at high RPM. Very cool.

So I'm 2 out of 3 I guess - I don't tan much....

[nopcbs]

Happy Turkey everyone.

Lexus recommends 205/65 r15, 94V for the '90 LS400, but I can't seem to find these specs in Michelin Exalto A/S. The lady at Sears says it can be special ordered for $149 each and then I HAVE to get an alignment for the warranty to kick in. I checked the Sears site and saw this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_0...sName=All+Tires

However, the speed rating is "H"

My question is, what are the real life differences between V and H speed rated tires? Especially, considering I won't ever drive near 100 MPH. Sears lady says H rating is a much inferior ride to the V rated...I tend not to believe her.

Reply:

I just put a set of Kuhmo Solus KH16's on my 92 LS400 in the 215 size. They are a revelation in terms of ride after the BFG Touring TA's that were on it before (granted, in 225 size). Nce quiet and smooth ride and adequate handling. Supposed to suck in snow, but I use snow tires in winter. Got them for about $250 at Tire rack and $60 to install. No regrets, so far.

The speed rating means essentially nothing unless you intend to travel near the speed rating limit.

[nopcbs]

Happy Turkey everyone.

Lexus recommends 205/65 r15, 94V for the '90 LS400, but I can't seem to find these specs in Michelin Exalto A/S. The lady at Sears says it can be special ordered for $149 each and then I HAVE to get an alignment for the warranty to kick in. I checked the Sears site and saw this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_0...sName=All+Tires

However, the speed rating is "H"

My question is, what are the real life differences between V and H speed rated tires? Especially, considering I won't ever drive near 100 MPH. Sears lady says H rating is a much inferior ride to the V rated...I tend not to believe her.

Reply:

I just put a set of Kuhmo Solus KH16's on my 92 LS400 in the 215 size. They are a revelation in terms of ride after the BFG Touring TA's that were on it before (granted, in 225 size). Nce quiet and smooth ride and adequate handling. Supposed to suck in snow, but I use snow tires in winter. Got them for about $250 at Tire rack and $60 to install. No regrets, so far.

The speed rating means essentially nothing unless you intend to travel near the speed rating limit.

[melon]

I don't know if this helps, but I just got my LS new tires from Costco. You get free balancing, roadside repair, rotation, nitrogen, etc... it is a good deal.

I paid around $450 and they were BFGoodrich, VRated.

I got the tires in the size that Costco recommended for my car. (they looked it up)

You have a choice between BFGoodrich and the more expensive Michellins.

Does anyone know what kind of trade off I will experience for the lower price? Should I have paid the extra money for the Michellins?