Switching Motor Oil

[JimsGX]

On a local radio station that has an automotive call-in show every weekend, the two moderators got around to talking about synthetic vs conventional motor oil. Both moderators agreed that once you switch a car over to synthetic, you cannot go back to conventional. They didn't elaborate on the reasons why, but I'm assuming if this is true, that it has something to do with the way synthetic reacts on the engines seals vs a petroleum based conventional oil. Does anyone have an opinion or know of any factual data to support any of this?

Jim

[gabep]

I have used Amsoil for years. They say if you need to add oil and Amsoil is not available use any top grade petroleum oil.

[mindmachine]

On a local radio station that has an automotive call-in show every weekend, the two moderators got around to talking about synthetic vs conventional motor oil. Both moderators agreed that once you switch a car over to synthetic, you cannot go back to conventional. They didn't elaborate on the reasons why, but I'm assuming if this is true, that it has something to do with the way synthetic reacts on the engines seals vs a petroleum based conventional oil. Does anyone have an opinion or know of any factual data to support any of this?

Jim

Consider using a synthetic/conventional blend then, many oil companies sell both the pure synthetic and a synthetic blend. I personally use the pure synthetic in my Porsche Cayenne and I use a blend in all my other cars. Actually I prefer the bend because I like changing my oil more often and the blend is a lot cheaper than the full synthetic.

I also think that since the oil companies sell a blend I dont see why you should have any problems adding regular oil to the pure synthetic in a pinch.

[skyfish400h]

On a local radio station that has an automotive call-in show every weekend, the two moderators got around to talking about synthetic vs conventional motor oil. Both moderators agreed that once you switch a car over to synthetic, you cannot go back to conventional. They didn't elaborate on the reasons why, but I'm assuming if this is true, that it has something to do with the way synthetic reacts on the engines seals vs a petroleum based conventional oil. Does anyone have an opinion or know of any factual data to support any of this?

Jim

They do not know what they are talking about.

It's OK to mix the two (same grade and wt, of course). And there is no compatabily issues between them. Perhaps they were confusing this with to fuel blends, or the move to CFC free refigerants. There were plenty seal issues with those in the past, but even those have been resolved for some time now.

[RX400h]

They do not know what they are talking about.

It's OK to mix the two (same grade and wt, of course). And there is no compatabily issues between them. Perhaps they were confusing this with to fuel blends, or the move to CFC free refigerants. There were plenty seal issues with those in the past, but even those have been resolved for some time now.

I agree. The two types are fully compatible. I feel that synthetic oil is of benefit if an engine tends to "stress" the oil, if you will. For example, some turbo engines, like that in my Mazda, may allow coking of conventional oil at the turbo bearings. Synthetic is well worth its extra cost in this case. The same holds true in my Corvette engine, since I've seen 260 degree oil temps during mountain runs. However, the RX400h engines are not stressed at all, primarily because they are "assisted" by the electric motors. My brother-in-law sold his Toyota minivan with over 300,000 miles on it. The engine was still in perfect running condition and was passing all smog tests. He always had petroleum-based oils used in it, so obviously, there was no need to spend 2-3 times the amount for synthetic oil changes.

[mburnickas]

On a local radio station that has an automotive call-in show every weekend, the two moderators got around to talking about synthetic vs conventional motor oil. Both moderators agreed that once you switch a car over to synthetic, you cannot go back to conventional. They didn't elaborate on the reasons why, but I'm assuming if this is true, that it has something to do with the way synthetic reacts on the engines seals vs a petroleum based conventional oil. Does anyone have an opinion or know of any factual data to support any of this?

Jim

sounds like they have no idea what they are talking about...or using 1970 data.

I have used both and both will work. It comes down to what you want from the oil. Longer usage, better/lower wear numbers, cleaner engine......

I will continue to use my Amsoil 0w-20 for many reasons.

[Jim Nazium]

Base your decision on...

Climate... The colder it is, then, you should choose at the very least synthetic for the extremely cold periods. Same goes for Extreme Months in the dog days of summer.

Frequency... If you change your oil at the factory levels, you might want to consider using Synthetics instead. I use conventional oil and after each oil change from the dealer (with oil filter), I will dump the oil after 2500 miles and replenish it with conventional 5W-30. I do this simply because I find the oil filter located in a most retarded location. It reminds me of my 3SGTE engine.

Beliefs... For those extreme months, as mentioned above, I will dump the oil soon after the dealer oil change and fill with synthetic 5W30, or if winter for the extreme January February I will use Synthetic 0W30.

The debate of whether synthetics are worth it or not, will be endless. Do what you feel is right. My method to my madness may be completely contrary to someone elses beliefs. But at the very least DO change your oil, either way changing oil is a good thing.

Cheers,

MadloR

[mburnickas]

It is not endless, pull a UOA and end the madness; simple and easy. Changing oil is not a good thing (unless you have spare time, and needless ammounts of used oil). If you do not know what you have to start with or end with, changing oil will do nothing but waste $$$$, time, etc.

Again, this is me and I do not want to "think" or use "beliefs" about anything. I let the UOA baselines tell me what to do. It gives you the best bang for the dollar / protection (what I like)....

[gabep]

I have checked the Amsoil site and they are recommending 25000 miles between oil changes in normal usage. Up from 20000 miles.

[mburnickas]

I have checked the Amsoil site and they are recommending 25000 miles between oil changes in normal usage. Up from 20000 miles.

I do not buy their miles (never have in 14 years using). I would pull a UPA at around 12,000 miles and go from there. Their 25,000 miles is not a real world # here; that they do not tell you that. It is from a dino...

If you use there Ea oil filter and their oil, kick a$$ combo here.

[Jim Nazium]

I kind of dislike this 20k or 25k set and forget type of oil, synthetic or super synthetic. One of the reasons for this is oil contamination, and I believe the 400h will contaminate the oil more than a conventional non hybrid vehicle. The constant start and stop, as well as the ability to get the oil hot enough to burn off "excess". By excess I mean things like contaminants like unburned fuel, moisture etc.

Then of course comes the actually efficiency of the oil filter. Can and will it last and be efficient to 20k or 25k? And if so, what proof do you have to satisfy Lexus. Also, how will it appear if god forbid you have an engine related failure or defect and you lay claim to 20K or 25k oil change intervals?

IMH, stay away from this and you will simply save yourself headaches in the long run. Just change the oil more frequently and you will be "good to go".

Cheers,

MadloR

[Gryphon]

Very good points, Madlo.

Afterall, you have a $50,000 vehicle, so why would you save a few bucks here and there by postponing oil changes?

Tom

[mburnickas]

MadloR you mention fuel, moisture, contaminants etc. If you pulled a UOA you would clearly see the benefits here (TBN control, oxd/nov resistances etc). The points you posted are good when you are guessing here or shooting in the dark, which you are. If you have fuel issues, you have engine/injector issues. Moisture is a joke since I have yet to see any levels ever to raise a flag (in many years testing gas/diesel engines). If you have contaminants use a real oil filter (non-Toyota).

Again, the problem here is UOA's prove the oil works (and very well). And yes Amsoil EA full-flow oil filters will last 25K miles. It was proven out almost double that. I will put my 98 "sludge prone" ES engine against any engine in this forum who do not pull UOA's. Why, I know what I have in it for oil and the past UOA's.

I spend about $45 per year on oil/filter and will perform "to the top". Proof is in the UOA's guys and 99.999% of oil threads (this one too) miss this important tool. Most are too cheap to buy it or do not know about it; but will change oil like everyday.

I take the opps side, I did not spend thousand of dollars to change too all the time. Plus I put ZERO faith in Toyota oil requirements or their warranty. I also have yet to see any issues with people using Amsoil per the guidlines here MadloR. If you used their oil you would see the benefits here.

I am not knocking anyone but oil threads, like this, without proper documentation and correct info, smear the facts.

IMH, pull a UOA and do not guess on the "good to go".

[gabep]

I have a 1994 camry I have been running amsoil in since 1994. I change the oil every 20000 miles and a regular fram filter every 3000 miles. 140000 miles and the engine is as clean of sludge and coking as the day it was built. It works for me but all else is personal belief and experience. Just my opinion.

[mburnickas]

I have a 1994 camry I have been running amsoil in since 1994. I change the oil every 20000 miles and a regular fram filter every 3000 miles. 140000 miles and the engine is as clean of sludge and coking as the day it was built. It works for me but all else is personal belief and experience. Just my opinion.

Dude, spend the $12 on the Ea oil filter and call it a day. It HAS the best cap/eff on the market (next to a bypass). I thought the old SDF were good (based on UOA)...or find a donaldson oil filter (samething).

[RX400h]

Again, there are many thousands of petroleum-based oil users out there who are getting 300,000+ miles out of their engines with no sludge. A good majority of them change their oil and filter every 5000 miles or less. It really isn't rocket science. If you follow the owner's manual, you can achieve the same result and it won't cost you more than spending the big bucks on synthetic oil unless you really pile on the miles.

I have to use Mobil 1 ($23/5 quart container) synthetic oil in my other two cars, but because neither gets past 5000 miles in one year, I change the oil and filter only once during that time. But the RX400h manual lists the oil change frequency as every 5 months or 5000 miles and I think it is a good idea to stick with this schedule if you are at all concerned that any kind of engine failure may be attributed to longer change intervals by Lexus. Why take the risk?

Still, getting an oil analysis to extend change intervals once the warranty is over may save some money; just be sure the oil is actually analyzed with black and white info, not merely broken down into component concentration numbers. Most of us wouldn't know what to make of this, anyway.

[mburnickas]

Yes there are many cars using dino and at what cost too? And your time? Environmental issues?

As I stated time and time again, the manual is only a guide and not set in stone nor can lexus deny anything. Per my litte pretty Lexus letter, I just have to show at least (1) oil change per year and this is in the sludge prone engine (which is BS). I can go longer since the numbers show it. I do not guess like most.

For me, if I used dino oil it would cost more then what I do now. My time, gallons of used oil and used filters, etc. I have cars, I take car of doing (1) year intervals with <6,000 miles and my ES has gone over 14,000 miles in 6 months..And no fear here since it works.

Again everyone is "good idea", "good to go" and so on with these short intervals. You in fact are shooting yourself in the foot here folks. There is no risk here if you can understand the benefits of engine oil and a few UOA, you are golden.

If you think UOA are there only to extend oil intervals you are incorrect. If fact, that was not even why they came about. This is what I mean people do not understand UOA and most think there short drains do something for them. There time intervals are a major crap shoot and most think it means something. I bet if you spent the like 16 to $18 you would clearly see that these short drains are throwing money again. But people will spend "$50,000" and not $16….LOL

These posts are still lacking correct info here. Nor will using oil longer then recommend in violation of anything. I have yet to see any car using Amsoil voiding a Lexus warranty or ANY car manufacture warranty. It IS cheaper if you utilized this tool along with a good oil. I do not know everything on oil but I have the foundation to grasp it. If you can balance a check book, you can get it. Just need to step-up to the plate.

Gee, and I drain my others gas engines everyother year based on UOA. Blow peoples mind!

This is my last post since again, people are posting without knowledge of oil testing and engine oils.

Man, people are in fear of something out of the Lexus box.

[RX400h]

By the way, one of the supporting race shops in the corvette forum commented that while they have tried various synthetic oils in their race cars and found at least one that couldn't hold up, Mobil 1 has never given them a problem. Among the big names in synthetic oil, it is the most readily available and in most cases, the least expensive. Why spend more for other oils if extended drain intervals is your goal?

That being said, I should mention that I have used Amsoil universal ATF and their severe gear differential lube. They do make great stuff; it's just that when it comes to synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 is a better choice, IMO.

[mburnickas]

So a vette forum now comparing what oils? Some of Amsoil oils are poor in my eyes (XL, ASL to name a few). Now a Lexus thread about oils is using vette forum "so called data". This is my point. No one puts up hard raw data. <shaking head> This is as bad a people using BITOG site.

I do not race nor would ever buy a vette. Tell the race site to put up the raw data with all variables. 1000 to 1 they are incorrect or poor data. Plus racing can has way to many issues too.

I am not going indo detail since I have used Mobil EP in my ES and the numbers are poor. I gave the rest away last year since it performed less then Amsoil ASL ($25 for 5 qts). Mobil is a lesser oil in many areas (zddp for one), plus there oils have ash in them, low TBN, poor HTHS etc. You would see this in your tested your oil. IMO.

In my eyes, Mobil is junk for the price since it was poor for (1) test only. You can get the same numbers using Halovine oil using LC20. I spend $26 for my oil (1 year) and 11 for a filter (rest is to my door in 2 days). That is about $8 more for better protection, less used oil, less time on car etc.

If you like it, based on better choice (whatever that means), great. I just know what Mobil did in my car, and other cheaper oils. You get what you pay for. Just like Rotella oil sucked compared to Amsoil diesel oils in my diesel.

To close again, pull a UOA and see what is better and stop trusting other forums posts, "think it is better", good to goes etc. You might be amazed on what you think is a better choice and does poorly.

[Gryphon]

MBurnickas,

You may or not be correct about how Lexus will handle a marginal warranty claim on a vehicle that has not met the recommended oil change intervals in the manual. But for several other manufacturers you are dead wrong. I have first hand knowledge of employees, neighbors, acquaintances, etc., that have been denied expensive warranty claims because of lack of proof of oil change intervals.

Tom

[RX400h]

How can you explain how the LS1 engines are surpassing 200,000 miles, using Mobil 1 only? All the data in the world means nothing unless it includes a direct correlation between the "poor" oils/relation to engine life and the same for what is considered a "good" oil and its relation to engine life. I can assure you that almost ANY engine can last over 200,000 miles with proper care. I change the oil in the Corvette once per year and I have no doubt, OA data or not, that my engine will last longer than I do. It just doesn't make sense that I would spend more money to get better oil analysis numbers, when real life results show Mobil 1 is more than adequate.

But seriously, as Gryphon mentioned, you do risk warranty coverage by extending your drain intervals. And by the way, let's not get carried away with another super-lengthy oil discussion. You like Amsoil; that's great. Try not to get upset when others choose to use another brand of oil.

Dave

[Jim Nazium]

I do get the feeling that brand loyalty and other factors may be clouding this persons judgement.

As for facts, I have yet to see any facts on his behalf, 1000 to 1 to say otherwise, concerning the INCREDIBLE protection offered by Amsoil Motor Oils. And, is there a promo code that I need, in the next 30 minutes to get some online

I do know for a fact that if you ask any certified mechanic or Automobile Manufacturer if there is any risk to using conventional motor oil or synthetic motor oil from Company A, B or C, and change oil at the RECOMMENDED periods, if it will cause any MAJOR, MINOR, or any Signifcant Minute Damage. 1000 to 1, none of them will say yes.

I change motor oil at the dealer, and I change it again soon after with synthetic 5W30. I will not spend 10 a quart on Amsoil, or Redline etc. since I am not stressing out this motor and do not require Michael Schumacher and Ferrari like protection with funding from SHELL. I change the oil too frequently to suffer from sludge build up, and unlike this person I DO in fact own a 400h. I do find one thing particular bothersome, and that is the constant cycling of the engine, on... off.. on..... off.. on..off.....on.. etc. When I dumped the oil yesterday, it was like all the prevoius times I find the oil to be clean and flowed quite nicely and as usual had a more gas fuel smell to it. I do not need a laboratory analysis to tell me otherwise, and I am not interested in decimal place accuracy. Sometimes common sense takes precedence.

And finally, I do not need a hassle with a dealer or dealers and to give any excuse to a regional claims manager to deny me any, and I mean any kind of warranty. And even if the law were to be on my side, I do not need the hassle, frustration, loss of wages, aggravations and waste of time to prove them wrong. Because even when your right, and you have a p!ssed off dealer working on your car you can bet they will not put the same love into it if you had just followed protocol. When and if I still own this vehicle out of warranty then perhaps I will venture into other alternatives but until then you or anybody else will not convince me otherwise with 25k oil change intervals. Oh, and for the environment, you take your oil to a recycling centre, or give it to the dealer or independant garage to dispose of correctly.

Cheers,

MadloR

[mburnickas]

How can you explain how the LS1 engines are surpassing 200,000 miles, using Mobil 1 only? All the data in the world means nothing unless it includes a direct correlation between the "poor" oils/relation to engine life and the same for what is considered a "good" oil and its relation to engine life. I can assure you that almost ANY engine can last over 200,000 miles with proper care. I change the oil in the Corvette once per year and I have no doubt, OA data or not, that my engine will last longer than I do. It just doesn't make sense that I would spend more money to get better oil analysis numbers, when real life results show Mobil 1 is more than adequate.

But seriously, as Gryphon mentioned, you do risk warranty coverage by extending your drain intervals. And by the way, let's not get carried away with another super-lengthy oil discussion. You like Amsoil; that's great. Try not to get upset when others choose to use another brand of oil.

Dave

Easy, since you can run most engines on the poorest engine oil and drain so frequent, as most show, then it would work just fine. It also does not mean you are getting the lowest wear numbers, best protection out there either. Or you could are getting massive buildup of acid and oxid in the engine and oil is failing. Or it is shearing or thickening etc. I do not like ash in my oil, you do. I like low HTHS and low Novack. There are more benefits but this is beyond the scope of this thread. You are flat-out guessing Dave, based on posts and that is the funny part.

You “feel”, I love that, this and that and but will not spend $16 to$20 (but drive a vette and a lexus) to support or prove to yourself if you are incorrect or not. That again is why most oil threads are opinions at best and hold less to no merit.

You have no idea if your beloved Mobil is adequate or not since you are comparing nothing to it not even know what it does for you or performs. Yea, it works but so does Supertech for $7 a gallon too. You again do not know what you have so you have no idea if you are fine or not. Again Havoline will stay up with Mobil 1 EP for ½ the price too.

I like Amsoil since the UOA prove it works better. I could careless who makes it. I stated before (years ago) and it still stands, show me a better oil (UOA) that is cheaper and I will buy it. No “feelings”, no “guessing” like most have have posted. You buy “what you think makes sense” without anything to support it. That my friend is my point; guessing here.

You do not risk anything (Lexus warr) wise. Slips from buying oil/filters do not show anything was even installed. If you have sludge it would show up light years before it causes problems via UOA. If you have an engine failure and need lexus to fix, if you where smart, you would be using UOA (no guessing here). If you are doing blind intervals I have seen Amsoil backup there smart customer. Non-smart are people that cannot read what their policy is. 1000 to 1 if your engine fails it is not due to engine oil but a non-related issue. I have yet to see an engine fail due to a Amsoil/redline etc engine.

The warranty thing is a "setting fear" into people and the public believes it. In my years of doing UOA, I have yet to have an issue with my lexus dealer, ford dealer and Olds dealer.

I am not upset, in fact I love these debates. But when people post on oil and have nothing to add valve, that is the joke. I like these threads but people always go back to something that has no basis (other then a manual) and prove there actions Prove that 5,000 is better then 6K miles or etc? You might be able to stretch our interval a few months and /or Miles if you tested it.

It seems like everyone thinks UOA’s are a single use tool which is wrong here people. UOA have saved me hundreds of dollars in the past but that is again beyond this thread.

For like time #4 if you do not pull your own UOA’s, on your oil, you are flat-out guessing/shooting in the dark. As we can clearly see.

I give up, you are all right. No UOA are needed and “I think” I am fine is the correct way too go. It is overpriced to get oil tested for approx $18. Too expensive and it adds no value.

[mburnickas]

I do get the feeling that brand loyalty and other factors may be clouding this persons judgement.

As for facts, I have yet to see any facts on his behalf, 1000 to 1 to say otherwise, concerning the INCREDIBLE protection offered by Amsoil Motor Oils. And, is there a promo code that I need, in the next 30 minutes to get some online

I do know for a fact that if you ask any certified mechanic or Automobile Manufacturer if there is any risk to using conventional motor oil or synthetic motor oil from Company A, B or C, and change oil at the RECOMMENDED periods, if it will cause any MAJOR, MINOR, or any Signifcant Minute Damage. 1000 to 1, none of them will say yes.

I change motor oil at the dealer, and I change it again soon after with synthetic 5W30. I will not spend 10 a quart on Amsoil, or Redline etc. since I am not stressing out this motor and do not require Michael Schumacher and Ferrari like protection with funding from SHELL. I change the oil too frequently to suffer from sludge build up, and unlike this person I DO in fact own a 400h. I do find one thing particular bothersome, and that is the constant cycling of the engine, on... off.. on..... off.. on..off.....on.. etc. When I dumped the oil yesterday, it was like all the prevoius times I find the oil to be clean and flowed quite nicely and as usual had a more gas fuel smell to it. I do not need a laboratory analysis to tell me otherwise, and I am not interested in decimal place accuracy. Sometimes common sense takes precedence.

And finally, I do not need a hassle with a dealer or dealers and to give any excuse to a regional claims manager to deny me any, and I mean any kind of warranty. And even if the law were to be on my side, I do not need the hassle, frustration, loss of wages, aggravations and waste of time to prove them wrong. Because even when your right, and you have a p!ssed off dealer working on your car you can bet they will not put the same love into it if you had just followed protocol. When and if I still own this vehicle out of warranty then perhaps I will venture into other alternatives but until then you or anybody else will not convince me otherwise with 25k oil change intervals. Oh, and for the environment, you take your oil to a recycling centre, or give it to the dealer or independant garage to dispose of correctly.

Cheers,

MadloR

Sorry MadloR, I am not loyal at all. But I have tried and tested many others. Which I see you have not. Amsoil is not the best in the world here but it is the best bang for the dollar. Why, because my UOA show that. Hence, you would see that if you pulled UOA's here.

I trust a certified mechanic zero since any clown is one and it means little to nothing. And when you ask a manufacture, most will say contact the dealer or it is a CS person reading from a book. Most dealers like Toyota are behind the times here too.

You do not stress your oil? Based on what info do you know that? You are missing the point again. You have no idea what you have with your oil. Now color and smell of oil means something? You are too funny. I guess you are superman with UV eye sight and particle tester with your nose?

You worry about on---off-on---off. LOL.

Next is do not lie since I never stated 25K on oil. Please show me since that is another incorrect statment you are making. If you used an oil by-pass it would even blow your understanding I think.:chairshot:

Anyother living in fear post when I have yet to talk to anyone in real life using Redline, Amsoil etc with oil releated issues. Not gonna happen if you can read.

I will take my 4.6 qts of used oil after, your, how many gallons in my same time??????

Your post is correct in the fact that you know zero on oil testing (as shown). 99.9% of a test is not even in decimal places? <unreal>

[mburnickas]

MBurnickas,

You may or not be correct about how Lexus will handle a marginal warranty claim on a vehicle that has not met the recommended oil change intervals in the manual. But for several other manufacturers you are dead wrong. I have first hand knowledge of employees, neighbors, acquaintances, etc., that have been denied expensive warranty claims because of lack of proof of oil change intervals.

Tom

Incorrect since #1, it is "recommended oil change intervals". That is not in stone since I know what recommended means. Just like Lexus recommendes you used Lexus parts, lexus air in tires and you take your car in every 3,000 miles for like $200. It is a money maker period. They recommend everything and anything too.

#2 per you beloved Lexus, I need to perfom at least 1 oil change per year. Per my sludge letter. That superceeds the manual.

There is no real proof of perfoming an oil change unless you video take it. You can show slips etc till you are blue in the fact but prove that that oil was installed in that car, that filter etc. Do many ways around it.