Brake Dust Stains Embedded In Rims - 06 Gs430

[jasontucker]

Sorry - this is a duplicate message - originally posted in the GS430 forum. One of the members suggested I post it here to see if anyone has seen this or has any suggestions.

I have an '06 GS430 with the factory rims. After trying to clean them recently, I noticed that they're stained. It looks like a combination of brake dust and water sort of embedded or etched into the finish.

Has anyone else had this problem. Is there a fix? Would it be covered under the Lexus warranty? I've ordered a Zainobros Clay Bar, but it hasn't yet arrived so I haven't yet tried it. Any other suggestions?

[Mad Dawg 350]

WOW!!! That stinks!!! To me, looks like the brake dust baked in to the wheel's finish. Just for my sake and maybe others who may have had or do not want to what happen to them, what product do you use to clean the wheels?? Was it one of those "spray on and forget" type of cleaners or the type that is rinsed off?? Was the wheel hot when the product was applied?? Please keep us updated on how the clay works.

[jasontucker]

WOW!!! That stinks!!! To me, looks like the brake dust baked in to the wheel's finish. Just for my sake and maybe others who may have had or do not want to what happen to them, what product do you use to clean the wheels?? Was it one of those "spray on and forget" type of cleaners or the type that is rinsed off?? What the wheel hot when the product was applied?? Please keep us updated on how the clay works.

I wish I could warn everyone against whatever caused it - but I don't really know. I'm not sure I've used any specific type of cleaner (maybe the problem...) I've typically just gotten the car cleaned at a local car wash - the kind where they drive it through and then wipe it all down for you afterwards. The pics are of the worst areas on the worst wheels. It's not really all that bad. Although I doubt anybody even notices it - it bugs me!

[mburnickas]

I know I could not live without PB spray 'n' rinse. I love that wheel cleaner. Used on Fords, Dodges, Lexus's and olds and no issues yet.

[Mad Dawg 350]

It's even worse when one does not know what the cause is. To me, it sounds like the drive thru car wash place you take your car to does not rinse very well and the people did not completely wipe down your wheels afterwards. Then when you drove way, the heat that was generated baked the dust in to the finish. I'm with you, it would bug me like crazy even if it is not that noticable to others.

[SW03ES]

This is caused by a couple of issues.

1. The carwash. Carwashes use very harsh chemicals, especially on wheels that can cause etching that will damage or destroy the surface.

2. Lack of proper cleaning. Carwashes never go over the wheels well and clean the brake dust out of the windows. Brake dust is really caustic and it will eat its way into your wheels in short order if its not completely cleaned off the surface regularly.

Take the car to a professional detailer and see what they can do, but my guess is the wheels are toast.

[Rx330driver]

these are on my wheels too...lol. I guess i dont do a good enough job

[ForeverIrise]

Any luck getting those off? I have them on my wheels too.

I have tried the following products:

Eagle One: NEVR-DULL

Eagle One: Nano-polish w/ Anticorrosion

Mothers: PowerMetal

Noxon: 7 Metal Polish

and even

MAAS.

None of them worked!

I've read a few places that claim that BLACKFIRE Fine Cut Aluminum Polish works, but it seems too abrasive for the clear coat for me to try.

Keep us updated please, best of luck!!

[TOGWT]

My guess is they used HF (Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2) to clean the wheels.

A specialist wheel repair shop: www.wheelcollision.com, Wheels America http://www.fixrim.com,

http://www.wickedwheels.co.uk/ (also USA) should be able to help

[mburnickas]

acids are your friend if you use them as directed.

[TOGWT]

acids are your friend if you use them as directed.

If this acid is your 'friend' I'd hate to see what your enemies would do to you?

Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2):

[: is a highly toxic and corrosive solution of hydrogen fluoride in water.]

Cleaning paint (inc wheel surfaces) - ten or more years ago this method was widely used by body-shops and detailers to remove water spots from paint surfaces, however, as time progressed, we started to see metallic paints and wheel surfaces darken under the clear coat.

Hydrofluoric acid is also notoriously known to react with glass. On factory aluminium wheel surfaces, acrylic polyurethane finishes or polyester powdered coatings it will occlude (cloud) an indication that the finish surface has been compromised, it also produces micro hairline cracks, and will eventually fail.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys. It has an NFPA health rating of 3; Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given This substance should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to hydrochloric, sulphuric, or other mineral acids

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

[mburnickas]

acids are your friend if you use them as directed.

If this acid is your 'friend' I'd hate to see what your enemies would do to you?

Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2):

[: is a highly toxic and corrosive solution of hydrogen fluoride in water.]

Cleaning paint (inc wheel surfaces) - ten or more years ago this method was widely used by body-shops and detailers to remove water spots from paint surfaces, however, as time progressed, we started to see metallic paints and wheel surfaces darken under the clear coat.

Hydrofluoric acid is also notoriously known to react with glass. On factory aluminium wheel surfaces, acrylic polyurethane finishes or polyester powdered coatings it will occlude (cloud) an indication that the finish surface has been compromised, it also produces micro hairline cracks, and will eventually fail.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys. It has an NFPA health rating of 3; Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given This substance should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to hydrochloric, sulphuric, or other mineral acids

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

Where do you copy this stuff from (as I have asked like 10 times)? Also your post is nothing new here since this has been talked about years ago on autopia. They (acids) are not more dangerous then most items in your home. Again acids are a great tool (friend) if you use them correctly.

[jasontucker]

acids are your friend if you use them as directed.

If this acid is your 'friend' I'd hate to see what your enemies would do to you?

Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2):

[: is a highly toxic and corrosive solution of hydrogen fluoride in water.]

Cleaning paint (inc wheel surfaces) - ten or more years ago this method was widely used by body-shops and detailers to remove water spots from paint surfaces, however, as time progressed, we started to see metallic paints and wheel surfaces darken under the clear coat.

Hydrofluoric acid is also notoriously known to react with glass. On factory aluminium wheel surfaces, acrylic polyurethane finishes or polyester powdered coatings it will occlude (cloud) an indication that the finish surface has been compromised, it also produces micro hairline cracks, and will eventually fail.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys. It has an NFPA health rating of 3; Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given This substance should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to hydrochloric, sulphuric, or other mineral acids

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

Where do you copy this stuff from (as I have asked like 10 times)? Also your post is nothing new here since this has been talked about years ago on autopia. They (acids) are not more dangerous then most items in your home. Again acids are a great tool (friend) if you use them correctly.

Not quite sure how one accumulates, copies, or is even remotely interested such knowledge or data about acids. But, in any case, I'm not touching any acids - other than the muriatic acid I pour into my pool - and I'm certainly not putting any on my wheels...thanks, though...

[TOGWT]

Quote: Where do you copy this stuff from (as I have asked like 10 times)?

I apologise as I must have missed the question the last nine times.

As stated in my post-

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

[TOGWT]

acids are your friend if you use them as directed.

If this acid is your 'friend' I'd hate to see what your enemies would do to you?

Hydrofluoric Acid (SiO2):

[: is a highly toxic and corrosive solution of hydrogen fluoride in water.]

Cleaning paint (inc wheel surfaces) - ten or more years ago this method was widely used by body-shops and detailers to remove water spots from paint surfaces, however, as time progressed, we started to see metallic paints and wheel surfaces darken under the clear coat.

Hydrofluoric acid is also notoriously known to react with glass. On factory aluminium wheel surfaces, acrylic polyurethane finishes or polyester powdered coatings it will occlude (cloud) an indication that the finish surface has been compromised, it also produces micro hairline cracks, and will eventually fail.

It also has the unique ability to dissolve almost all inorganic oxides. In the human body, hydrofluoric acid reacts with calcium and damages nerves, bone, and several organs including the heart and kidneys. It has an NFPA health rating of 3; Short exposure could cause serious temporary or residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given This substance should be handled with extreme care, beyond that accorded to hydrochloric, sulphuric, or other mineral acids

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

Where do you copy this stuff from (as I have asked like 10 times)? Also your post is nothing new here since this has been talked about years ago on autopia. They (acids) are not more dangerous then most items in your home. Again acids are a great tool (friend) if you use them correctly.

This is what other mobile detailer's say about the risks involved-

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mo...post?id=1785815

[mburnickas]

Quote: Where do you copy this stuff from (as I have asked like 10 times)?

I apologise as I must have missed the question the last nine times.

As stated in my post-

Information resource - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid

Material Data Sheet - MSDS - http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/H3880.htm

Great. why re-ype the same info? Plus I do not trust "wiki-a-lier" site. Way to many times people can mod it and make it incorrect.

[mburnickas]

again this debate is getting even older now (adding more years too it). As I stated above, if you are worried about these cleaner do not clean your car, your home, drive a car on the streets, buy bottled water etc. If you read "in to" most products you would not use them.

For the 3rd time, if you use as directed you are fine.

[TOGWT]

Quote: Not quite sure how one accumulates, copies, or is even remotely interested such knowledge or data about acids. But, in any case, I'm not touching any acids - other than the muriatic acid I pour into my pool - and I'm certainly not putting any on my wheels...thanks, though...

As a detailer I want to know what chemicals could damage my vehicle's surfaces or components

As a person who loves his automobile I want to learn what chemicals / substances might harm me or mine

As a chemical Engineer I have a professional interest

As an author of detailing books / articles I use my professional knowledge to help detailer's choose safe chemicals

[TOGWT]

again this debate is getting even older now (adding more years too it). As I stated above, if you are worried about these cleaner do not clean your car, your home, drive a car on the streets, buy bottled water etc. If you read "in to" most products you would not use them.

For the 3rd time, if you use as directed you are fine.

You are obviously very well versed in the use of chemicals so I will concede to you superior knowledge

[mburnickas]

again this debate is getting even older now (adding more years too it). As I stated above, if you are worried about these cleaner do not clean your car, your home, drive a car on the streets, buy bottled water etc. If you read "in to" most products you would not use them.

For the 3rd time, if you use as directed you are fine.

You are obviously very well versed in the use of chemicals so I will concede to you superior knowledge

And it took your this long to post where you got your info from? Bad "ref"s ..tisk tisk

Well, then I assume you use an eco friendly wax, cleaner etc on your car and I hope then did not hurt any trees, water bacteria in the making. Lets see, should I worry about a wheel cleaner or solvants/cleaners at work that make these little acids look like milk? humm

That is great you have the background and stating the facts for about the 10000 time. But ha, for me engineers are not any better then anyone else.

[mburnickas]

This is what other mobile detailer's say about the risks involved-

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mo...post?id=1785815

you mean all 4 or 5 people?

[jasontucker]

This is what other mobile detailer's say about the risks involved-

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mo...post?id=1785815

you mean all 4 or 5 people?

Didn't mean to spark a debat here... In any case, here's an update on the rim problem...

Finally presented this rim problem to the dealer. At first the service tech said there's no way for brake dust to embed in the finish. He went and got some sort of Lexus super polish and started rubbing on the area. He concluded that it wasn't a brake dust stain, but an erosion of the actual finish. The more he rubbed, the more black area appeared as he was wiping away the actual finish. He thought I must have used some sort of corrosive cleaner that had etched away the finish and was exposing the black underneath.

But then he went and got another guy that concluded that if that were the case, the problem would be all over the wheels, not just on the edges. His theory was that it must be a combination of brake dust, something corrosive, water, heat, etc... He suggested that Lexus should replace the rims with new ones - or at least some rims of another new car that had upgraded to chrome.

Then a third guy showed up to take pictures for documentation, which have to be submitted to some sort of regional manager type guy. I'm not sure what will happen there. They finally sent me on my way telling me that they'd have to order the new rims regardless of what they decided with the warranty. He's supposed to call me when the new rims arrive. Hopefully, they'll just call it a defective finish and replace them at no charge. Stay tuned...

[mburnickas]

Didn't mean to spark a debat here... In any case, here's an update on the rim problem...

Finally presented this rim problem to the dealer. At first the service tech said there's no way for brake dust to embed in the finish. He went and got some sort of Lexus super polish and started rubbing on the area. He concluded that it wasn't a brake dust stain, but an erosion of the actual finish. The more he rubbed, the more black area appeared as he was wiping away the actual finish. He thought I must have used some sort of corrosive cleaner that had etched away the finish and was exposing the black underneath.

But then he went and got another guy that concluded that if that were the case, the problem would be all over the wheels, not just on the edges. His theory was that it must be a combination of brake dust, something corrosive, water, heat, etc... He suggested that Lexus should replace the rims with new ones - or at least some rims of another new car that had upgraded to chrome.

Then a third guy showed up to take pictures for documentation, which have to be submitted to some sort of regional manager type guy. I'm not sure what will happen there. They finally sent me on my way telling me that they'd have to order the new rims regardless of what they decided with the warranty. He's supposed to call me when the new rims arrive. Hopefully, they'll just call it a defective finish and replace them at no charge. Stay tuned...

coool. maybe get some free rims! :)_

[W201 sweden]

Let us know how it turns out...

Slightly OT, but perhaps not:

When I was working at Mercedes, we had a customer with an almost new (couple of 1000 km) AMG version of the C-class. (A C32 AMG, 354 hp.)

For some reason, he was cheap enough not to buy a second set of rims for the winter tires, so we had to take new summer ones off the rims and put the new winter ones on. The car was almost brand new, and so where the rims.

As I gently wiped the rim surface for the balancing weight clean, using our normal product for this (for ALL rims), the AMG silver paint just faded.

This was on the area that had not been exposed to any glue from weights before, or anything at all really!

That really worried me, so I applied some non-aggresive windshield anti freeze instead, result was the same.

That customer did not get any new rims, or even a re-spray - the shop owner never told the customer.

I think it was then I finally lost my belief in Mercedes as a maker of quality products.

/Alexander from Sweden

[jasontucker]

Let us know how it turns out...

Slightly OT, but perhaps not:

When I was working at Mercedes, we had a customer with an almost new (couple of 1000 km) AMG version of the C-class. (A C32 AMG, 354 hp.)

For some reason, he was cheap enough not to buy a second set of rims for the winter tires, so we had to take new summer ones off the rims and put the new winter ones on. The car was almost brand new, and so where the rims.

As I gently wiped the rim surface for the balancing weight clean, using our normal product for this (for ALL rims), the AMG silver paint just faded.

This was on the area that had not been exposed to any glue from weights before, or anything at all really!

That really worried me, so I applied some non-aggresive windshield anti freeze instead, result was the same.

That customer did not get any new rims, or even a re-spray - the shop owner never told the customer.

I think it was then I finally lost my belief in Mercedes as a maker of quality products.

/Alexander from Sweden

Here's the latest update...I haven't heard a peep from the dealership since they sent me away. Until today, somebody called me to follow up on my next oil change service... I asked her to follow up with the service advisor and he called me shortly after. Turns out he'd been on vacation for a week and was climbing out from under a mountain of e-mail. He did recall that new rims had been ordered. Not sure if that means they're going to replace them at no charge, but I haven't agreed to pay anything - so maybe it's a good sign. He's going to call me when he catches up and let me know the status.