A Warning About Seafoam?

[blk_on_blk]

Well, this is a bummer. I decided to run some Seafoam through our 1995 ES300. It's got about 150K +/- on the odo and it runs smooth and clean, but with the higher mileage, I figured it was good practice to clean out any deposits in the combustion chamber. So, I pulled off the brake booster line, slowly sucked up a 1/3 pint of the Seafoam, didn't let the engine die, shut it down after it was all sucked up, let it sit for about 5 minutes, then started it up and cleaned out all the smoke.

After all was said and done, it ran really well... seemed more responsive, plus started and idled like new. The only problem was that after letting it sit for the afternoon, I went to start it again and nice little cloud of blue smoke came out the back... definitely burning-oil smoke. Not cool. I didn't see that before. So, I figure it's either valve seals or rings... it'd really suck if it was rings.

I did some research on the web and came across this post, "Seafoam can mess up your rings (on higher mileage engines) if you put it in the booster; it cleans the carbon out that is holding the 140k rings together causing oil leaks and blue smoke." Doubly not cool. I don't know how much validity there is to this, but it mirrors what my results were. Someone wrote in saying it's written right on the can not to use Seafoam in 150K+ mileage engines, but I didn't see that on the label, and I don't see it anywhere on Seafoam's site (maybe I missed it).

The other thing I didn't mention was that I changed the oil right after i did the Seafoam treatment; I'm starting an Auto-RX cycle with the oil. I was told the previous owner ran synthetic, and to run Auto-RX, you need to run dino oil, so I switched back to the standard 5W-30 for the 1MZ-FE and added the Auto-RX. I don't know, maybe the problem was always there but the synthetic oil didn't smoke like dino oil? Is that possible?

So, where I am now is that I have a nice clean engine that runs great, but puffs out some blue smoke on start up and when pulling away from a stop light after sitting at idle for a bit. Any suggestions on how to reduce this, other than an overhaul? I'm thinking I'll live with it till I finish out the Auto-RX cycle, then put in some heavier weight synthetic oil and some Rislone to see if that helps reduce it.

Any thoughts?

~~As a quick follow up, the more I read, the more it seems there is a power loss with leaky rings. I haven't done a leak-down test (since it's such a buggar to get to those rear plugs), so I haven't checked compression of each cylinder, but if I went by feel of engine strength, it runs strong and hard, so I'm leaning towards oil leakage into the combustion chamber being from the valve stem seals (VSS). It looks like running a thicker oil really helps reduce smoke, and either Rislone or Lucas Oil Treatment will help reduce oil consumption/burning even more. The Auto-RX is an esther based treatment that makes seals swell a bit and leaves them more pliable, so hopefully swelling the VSS will help, along with the thicker oil. I'll post results after I finish the 1500 mile Auto-RX cycle.

[blk_on_blk]

Well, here it is a couple days later and our ES300's smoking issue just seemed to keep getting worse. I was lining up a good repair shop when several places on the web recommended Bardahl's No-Smoke (which is pretty much Motor Honey) for high mileage engines that smoke. I put in a bottle of the 'tar' last night and took it out for a drive. At the end of the drive there was no smoke. I turned it off for a bit and restarted, no smoke. I started it this morning... no smoke. It runs clean and quiet like there was nothing wrong with it.

So, yeah, I know it's a Band-Aid, but it seems to be a pretty good one. Hmm, and this is the first time I've changed the oil on the vehicle since we bought it. The more I thought about it, the dealer that I bought it from had it sitting and idling and ready for me when I came to test drive it. Hmmm... I'm starting to think the the smoking problem might have been there when I bought the thing, for the oil I changed out seemed kind of thick, and they may have had it running and warmed up so I wouldn't see any puff of smoke on initial start up.

Either way, the car runs smooth and quiet now with no smoke. It should bide me some time before doing some major work on it. That' Bardahl's stuff is pretty good, and recommended by the boys at PAL.

[jmrippetoe21]

Well, here it is a couple days later and our ES300's smoking issue just seemed to keep getting worse. I was lining up a good repair shop when several places on the web recommended Bardahl's No-Smoke (which is pretty much Motor Honey) for high mileage engines that smoke. I put in a bottle of the 'tar' last night and took it out for a drive. At the end of the drive there was no smoke. I turned it off for a bit and restarted, no smoke. I started it this morning... no smoke. It runs clean and quiet like there was nothing wrong with it.

So, yeah, I know it's a Band-Aid, but it seems to be a pretty good one. Hmm, and this is the first time I've changed the oil on the vehicle since we bought it. The more I thought about it, the dealer that I bought it from had it sitting and idling and ready for me when I came to test drive it. Hmmm... I'm starting to think the the smoking problem might have been there when I bought the thing, for the oil I changed out seemed kind of thick, and they may have had it running and warmed up so I wouldn't see any puff of smoke on initial start up.

Either way, the car runs smooth and quiet now with no smoke. It should bide me some time before doing some major work on it. That' Bardahl's stuff is pretty good, and recommended by the boys at PAL.

Hey man I have the same exact problem with my 95 1mzfe, the only thing is that I am kinda color blind so the bluish smoke I was seeing initially was white to me so I freaked out. I thought it was the head gasket but I wasn't losing any water. So I should probably get some of the Bardahl's and change to a higher viscosity

synthetic. I was almost ready to scrap it and buy rebuilt. Thanks!

[blk_on_blk]

You can also tell if it's oil by the smell... it's that burnt oil stank. You can tell if it's a head gasket also by looking at the oil... if it's "milky" looking or if there are little globs of stuff it in, then that's indicative of your head gasket. Oil smoke is also heavier than coolant smoke, and it tends to 'hang' in the air longer and swirl around. The white coolant smoke is whispy and dissipates quickly.

So, if it's oil smoke, then yep, we're in the same boat. I'm running a cycle of Auto-RX in mine right now, and I didn't want to drain the whole thing and replace it with thicker oil, so I just put in some Bardahl's with the thinner oil... but it alone worked. Now it's been a day or so and it's still working well. The next time I change the oil I'll definitely go to thicker oil. Since I need to stick with dino oil for the next oil change per Auto-RX recommendations, I'll probably bump up to 10W-40, but once the cycle is all done I'll switch to Mobil 1's 15W-50 for the summer (it's what I used to run in my BMW, and it worked great... I ran the heck out of that car).

Yeah, I was on the verge of a rebuild, too, but some Bardahl's and thicker oil should keep you on the road quite a while longer... and if you keep something like Rislone or other detergent in your oil, or even better run with "high mileage" oils that have detergents built into them, they may help your rings to seat again (if that's the problem) and swell the valve seals and help rejuvenate your engine. Eventually we'll have to do some repairs, but I'm a believer of getting as much life out of a vehicle before needing to tear into it.

[mburnickas]

You can also tell if it's oil by the smell... it's that burnt oil stank. You can tell if it's a head gasket also by looking at the oil... if it's "milky" looking or if there are little globs of stuff it in, then that's indicative of your head gasket. Oil smoke is also heavier than coolant smoke, and it tends to 'hang' in the air longer and swirl around. The white coolant smoke is whispy and dissipates quickly.

So, if it's oil smoke, then yep, we're in the same boat. I'm running a cycle of Auto-RX in mine right now, and I didn't want to drain the whole thing and replace it with thicker oil, so I just put in some Bardahl's with the thinner oil... but it alone worked. Now it's been a day or so and it's still working well. The next time I change the oil I'll definitely go to thicker oil. Since I need to stick with dino oil for the next oil change per Auto-RX recommendations, I'll probably bump up to 10W-40, but once the cycle is all done I'll switch to Mobil 1's 15W-50 for the summer (it's what I used to run in my BMW, and it worked great... I ran the heck out of that car).

Yeah, I was on the verge of a rebuild, too, but some Bardahl's and thicker oil should keep you on the road quite a while longer... and if you keep something like Rislone or other detergent in your oil, or even better run with "high mileage" oils that have detergents built into them, they may help your rings to seat again (if that's the problem) and swell the valve seals and help rejuvenate your engine. Eventually we'll have to do some repairs, but I'm a believer of getting as much life out of a vehicle before needing to tear into it.

I do not think it is seaform; but that is me. I have seaformed about 8 cars in about 1 year and no issues. I have run ARX on all these along with LC20 (and Fp60, Amosil PI and Neutra 131). Also there are many good oils and other adds that clean seals and swell them. Not going into oil adds or fuel adds but if you have poor ring seal how do you blame it on seafoam? Also do not expect to see much diff if you are only doing one ARX. This is based on me using the stuff. It works but so do many other oil adds. They are all solvants too (so is ARX).

If not smoking all the time would it be valve seals and no rings (smoke all the time)? Also if you have a coolant leak if will be white smoke and not blue (oil) or black (fuel).

[blk_on_blk]

After putting the pieces together, yeah, I don't think the smoke is in conjunction with the Seafoam at this point (I did our RX300 at the same time with no problems). I just didn't know if anyone ever had those results from Seafoam. One post (on a different site) said Seafoam could clean out the deposits on the rings that were helping them 'seat', and after the cleaning, the worn seals wouldn't seat anymore. Now, I think it's more to do with the fact that I changed out the oil at the same time with the factory suggested weight. I think vehicle probably smoked when I bought it, but the dealer had added something in it like Bardahl's or thicker oil to keep it from smoking so I didn't notice. The dealer had told me there was a 'fresh change of oil in it', and he also did all the emissions testing for me before I bought it. At this point I think that the smoking 'problem' has been there since I bought it, but it was hidden.

I'm pretty sure it's valve seals, but I'm still not fully convinced. I'm leaning towards valve seals from the symptoms, but I've read where the oil rings can also give these results with the main compression rings still showing good cylinder pressure. There's tons of info out there, but wading through it leans me towards the valve seals (it didn't smoke all the time, just at start up (which is indicative of valve seals), when pulling away from a light after idling, and when kicking down into a passing gear... all other times it was clear). I read one post where a guy was having the same thing, and when his mechanic tore down the engine, it was the oil rings on the pistons... they were stuck. It could be a combonation of both valve seals and rings... won't know till I crack it open.

Yep, white smoke = coolant leak into combustion chamber, black smoke = fuel mixture off, and blue smoke = oil burning... but you can also be burning oil without visible smoke. It'll show up as extra high hydrocarbons on an emissions report. Plus, you can have coolant seeping into your oil from a blown head gasket, and if you've got burning oil issues, then you'll burn both the coolant and the oil... that'll give you a nice mix of smoke. Ah, there are just so many things that could go wrong, and it's hard to figure out which one applies to the symptoms.

[SKperformance]

You have a bad motor , the person selling probably knew it and added no smoke. I would use the lucas stuff before the no smoke as it is not as thick and can use just enough to stop it not the full bottle.

[blk_on_blk]

I was going to use Lucas, but after seeing BITOG's results and the air entrapment caused by the Lucas treatment ( http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm ), I kind of shyed away from it... especially when the PAL guys recommended Barhdal's so highly (quote from the PAL guy "I have tested many of these products, and for the old clunk with worn valve guides and rings, Bardahl No Smoke is the best treatment/additive I have ever run across" ...(sigh), I guess that means i have an 'old clunk', huh? :) ).

Yeah, I have a bad motor... I already had a talk with it: "You're a bad, bad motor... you've started to smoke, and sometimes you piddle oil on my garage floor. If you don't straighten up, we're going to have to ship you off to rebuild school." :chairshot:

[jmartia]

After putting the pieces together, yeah, I don't think the smoke is in conjunction with the Seafoam at this point (I did our RX300 at the same time with no problems). I just didn't know if anyone ever had those results from Seafoam. One post (on a different site) said Seafoam could clean out the deposits on the rings that were helping them 'seat', and after the cleaning, the worn seals wouldn't seat anymore. Now, I think it's more to do with the fact that I changed out the oil at the same time with the factory suggested weight. I think vehicle probably smoked when I bought it, but the dealer had added something in it like Bardahl's or thicker oil to keep it from smoking so I didn't notice. The dealer had told me there was a 'fresh change of oil in it', and he also did all the emissions testing for me before I bought it. At this point I think that the smoking 'problem' has been there since I bought it, but it was hidden.

I'm pretty sure it's valve seals, but I'm still not fully convinced. I'm leaning towards valve seals from the symptoms, but I've read where the oil rings can also give these results with the main compression rings still showing good cylinder pressure. There's tons of info out there, but wading through it leans me towards the valve seals (it didn't smoke all the time, just at start up (which is indicative of valve seals), when pulling away from a light after idling, and when kicking down into a passing gear... all other times it was clear). I read one post where a guy was having the same thing, and when his mechanic tore down the engine, it was the oil rings on the pistons... they were stuck. It could be a combonation of both valve seals and rings... won't know till I crack it open.

Yep, white smoke = coolant leak into combustion chamber, black smoke = fuel mixture off, and blue smoke = oil burning... but you can also be burning oil without visible smoke. It'll show up as extra high hydrocarbons on an emissions report. Plus, you can have coolant seeping into your oil from a blown head gasket, and if you've got burning oil issues, then you'll burn both the coolant and the oil... that'll give you a nice mix of smoke. Ah, there are just so many things that could go wrong, and it's hard to figure out which one applies to the symptoms.

I have a 95 lexus es 300 with 140k on it . i just put seafoam in it and it is doing exactly what you aid. It smokes on start up and at stop lights after idleing for a bit. it also shifts irregularly and hesitates really bad the more i drive it the worse it get. dont know if the seafoam caused this or not but it seems like it did.