Mercedes Mounts A Comeback

[branshew]

It looks like they're trying. Here's the latest JD Power rankings. The S-Class and A8 top the LS 460, and several other Benz models are ranked near the top in their segments.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pres...aspx?id=2007088

[lenore]

It looks like they're trying. Here's the latest JD Power rankings. The S-Class and A8 top the LS 460, and several other Benz models are ranked near the top in their segments.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/pres...aspx?id=2007088

remember JD powers shows the initial reliability,I differ with the long term reliability, but Hope so for mercedes, they have been in the dump for the last 12 years...

[SW03ES]

Its also not reliability, the IQS measures "total quality issues", so if someone thinks it needs more cupholders thats a problem, as is a failed transmission each gauged equally. I bet the LS460 was hurt by the early model wind noise problems.

The S550 is a very well built car though, much better than he previous S and the A8 is also an extremely well built car even if its getting dated.

[denslexusgx470]

I now understand why Mercedes owners are proud to own a Mercedes. We all know the horrible quality of these vehicles, but what a Mercedes can give you, the Lexus can't give you. I just came home from driving my friend's E350 again, and I can't believe how smooth it is! That's only a E350, imagine the $157k S600 I just saw at the Mercedes dealership in town today, you probably just blow air from your mouth onto the gas pedal and that thing could probably run 60mph right away!

All kidding aside, Mercedes has earned the "prestige" name that Lexus still hasn't really built yet. Obviously it's this way because they've been in the market for a waaay longer time than Lexus. Plus these MBs really punch it, I mean my friend's E350 may have a broken NAV and radio system (which annoyed me too cuz it turns on and off whenever it felt like it lol) but the performance was outstanding! For Lexus vehicle comparison, I've only driven an RX300, RX330, RX350, ES330, and ES350 and the ES350 was no where close to the performance of the E350! I thought the ES350 was quick and agile, but the E350 will get you going w/o you even noticing that you're running 10mph over the limit already!

So we can't really bad mouth these German vehicles. My friend admits that Lexus is definitely #1 in quality but BMW and Mercedes has something to boast that Lexus can't boast, and I can back that up!

[Rx330driver]

well...thats because the ES350 doesnt really go against the E350. You need a GS to take care of that. But the ES should have been quicker than the benz.

keep in mind this is 1 model out of their 20 plus models they have in production. So really, the S class which is their flagship wont be a good measurement of their base C class.

[denslexusgx470]

Moral of the story is that Mercedes Benz ownership is "prestigious" and that I know what they mean by that, and when they say "when you want power, it'll give you power".

Ok if you're going to compare the E350 with the GS350, that's kinda sad because then you have no other Lexus vehicle to compare with the other Mercedes vehicles! Take the GX, RX, and ML for example. You'd think the ML is comparable to the RX because of the similar size and car-based. But technically they compare the ML500 with the GX, but then what do you compare the GL450 to, the LX470? Well the GL450 is quite larger than the GX, but then again Mercedes still has the G-class...

And you must keep in mind, the E-class has a E500 which I doubt the GS430 could surpass. ;) I agree with SW all the way, you can not bad mouth another company UNTIL you have tried it. Trust me, I didnt want to believe it but I learned from experience now. ;)

[Rx330driver]

im just saying which model "competes" with which.

IS vs. C class

ES vs. C class

GS vs. E class

LS vs S class

the GS430 cant compete with the E550, your right. Which is why the GS460 is coming out this year.

[LexKid630]

I had a 2003 S600, when it was almost new. I can honestly say the LS is a much better car...

Not worth the $120 i spent for it in 2004.

[rickgus]

I've been in the middle of a big "Mercedes Quality" debate over at the Mercedes forum, which I've belonged to for several years now, for a week or so now. Most of those guys continue to totally defend Mercedes quality, even after admitting to the issues. I've basically accused them of blind devotion, and you can guess how well THAT went over. :chairshot:

I'm kinda stumped with all this. I'm a machinist by trade. If a shop buys machines that aren't up to snuff, profits suffer, employees suffer. If I buy a car that needs too much attention, my driving pleasure suffers. I don't care that it has a "silver star" out front.

Oh well. To each their own.

[lenore]

Its is hard to break a cycle, I am on a Ford site and experience the same devotion, even when they are talking about spark plugs blowing out and thru the hood, engines that are garbage at 500 miles and Ford says suck it up and wait for months to get it repaired. People are basically idiots, and the only bright ones are on this site... Consummers need to demand more of the manufacturors, if not that is why quality goes down...

[denslexusgx470]

But most of the time it's WHO you will patronize. Yes people may admit there may be problems with the brand but why do they still buy it?? Take Chrysler for example, they're known for tranny issues within 100k miles, but why do people still buy a Dodge Ram versus a Chevy Silverado?? It's just loyalty, that's all. Most of us here are obviously loyal Toyota/Lexus owners and the same thing goes for the other forums. That's life! Heck, my Motor Trend that just came in the other day says that the Hyundai Veracruz whooped the RX350's !Removed!! Those guys are obviously NOT BIASED people like the members of a forum. ;)

But i think the best thing to do to really prove your point, is do what Lexkid did, TRY IT. He had an S600 and now he can honestly say that the LS is a better vehicle. Ok he's got basis while the most of us here are just being too biased about it because it's the competition and we're just talking smack about them. Or at least test drive it thru the dealership or thru a friend who has one and then critique and compare it with the appropriate Lexus. B)

[branshew]

Moral of the story is that Mercedes Benz ownership is "prestigious" and that I know what they mean by that, and when they say "when you want power, it'll give you power".

That's not the "moral" that I took away with Mercedes ownership and I hope it's not the one you took away from just driving your friend's E350.

Don't confuse Prestige with Power (or Pedigree). I agree that Mercedes has continually made bulletproof engines that have an excellent torque curve on the low end and keep pushing through to the top. I also think that they have some of the best looking cars out there right now. I had a '99 C280 and it was a really nice car (in some ways I still miss it). It was fun to drive, had great pickup, and was an overall solid and well designed and built car. I loved that car, but the problem was that some of the components were garbage. MAF sensors, stereo head unit, climate control head unit, ball joints...) I expect wear and tear maintenance items on a car, but to pay that much money for a car with those problems became annoying after a while. My old 95 ES300 with 2x the mileage was more reliable with better component design. I don't mind paying more if I can see the value in what I am buying, but there's not too much value in a hood ornament.

What Mercedes has is a Pedigree. In the past, they have designed and built some of the world's best automobiles and charged accordingly for them. But the past doesn't always hold true for the future (or the present). Throughout the 1990's and early 2000's they relied heavily on their Pedigree, but weren't delivering up to their namesake (many long time owners will attest to this - even though they still bought the cars). This was why my Dad bought his first LS 400. It's like buying a racehorse. You pay more for the lineage, but there's no guarantee that foal will be the next Kentucky Derby winner. It could get hurt or not be a runner at all. Some people like being able to say that their filly is the duaghter of Giacomo (i.e. that they paid a lot for their horse) even if it is a nag - just like some people want you to know that they paid a lot for their car (I'm certainly not saying that all Mercedes owners are like that).

Perhaps that Pedigree brings them some Prestige, but it's a pretty sad statement as to how shallow someone is if they buy a car for it's Prestige.

Ok if you're going to compare the E350 with the GS350, that's kinda sad because then you have no other Lexus vehicle to compare with the other Mercedes vehicles! Take the GX, RX, and ML for example. You'd think the ML is comparable to the RX because of the similar size and car-based. But technically they compare the ML500 with the GX, but then what do you compare the GL450 to, the LX470? Well the GL450 is quite larger than the GX, but then again Mercedes still has the G-class...

Why is that "kinda sad?" Honda doesn't make a comparable car or truck for every Toyota but I don't see anything wrong with that. Lexus doesn't make a car to compete with every Mercedes that is out there and I doubt that they ever will. The other German brands have started to play that game (BMW's new 6, Audi's new A5 & Q7, etc...), but I doubt even BWM and Audi will ever make that many models. Some of those cars are such small sales segment cars like the CLK, CLS, or CL. I just don't see it as being part of the Lexus business plan.

[Rx330driver]

fine. ill bring out my first hand experience.

1994 C280. last benz owned up to date.

[denslexusgx470]

Branshew, you've made your point, but I still stand on the point that Benz owners are proud to own their vehicles because of the engine performance their vehicles have. My friend ADMITS that Lexus is superior to quality and luxury (sometimes he'd say "Oh yea my mom's.... or dad's ..... has this problem ...... cuz it's not a TROUBLE FREE vehicle like YOUR LEXUS") but his parents buy them because of the Mercedes Benz reputation. Heck my friend even told me that his mom once told him that she was embarassed for him to drive me around in her car (because my friend's S40 is in the shop for 15k checkup) because of the broken NAV system!

And the E350 isn't the only Benz i've driven. Don't get me started on the ML55 AMG, those things really PUNCH it when you barely tap the gas. ;) I could only imagine the AMG cars, those must be really fast!

[SW03ES]

Branshew, you've made your point, but I still stand on the point that Benz owners are proud to own their vehicles because of the engine performance their vehicles have.

This really has nothing to do with it. Branshew described it best, the aura of a Mercedes is one of history, pedigree, and prestige. It doesn't have anything to do with any specific attribute the car has.

The E350 is nice, but I still personally would buy an ES350 because its more comfortable, not to mention $15,000 cheaper when similarly equipped. Whether its more nimble, more powerful, or whatever $15,000 is a big difference. Its not fair to compare the E and the ES.

[denslexusgx470]

Well in my case I'd always go for the Lexus too, if I havent mentioned that yet. No matter how enticing that GL450 looks, I'll stick with the GX or LX anyday. ;)

[Rx330driver]

i do agree the GL is one good looking truck.

[branshew]

I could only imagine the AMG cars, those must be really fast!

They are. I had a chance to drive an SL55 and an E55 on a closed track at the Va. International Raceway a few years ago at a Mercedes "On Track" event. They had other models there as well, but why bother when you can get behind the wheel of an SL 55.

I never understood the ML55 concept though. Go fast in a straight line, but don't expect to corner too well with such a high center of gravity.

[denslexusgx470]

I never understood the ML55 concept though. Go fast in a straight line, but don't expect to corner too well with such a high center of gravity.

Obviously, I kinda noticed that when I drove my friend's dad's ML55 AMG but DAYAM those things really kick it! lol. His dad's gettin just a new ML350 now to replace that ML55 AMG cuz the lease is up, so idk how those things run..... But we'll see! Gonna drive it obviously one of these days, maybe not soon but I'll report back. ;)

[rickgus]

When I was living up in Seattle, we used to have annual "Get-togethers"(GTG's) with a bunch of the locals from Mercedesshop forum. They were alot of fun, and got to see alot of nice cars up close. I decided one new Mercedes I'd own in a munute, budget allowing, is G-Wagon. Awesome vehicle! This one guy showed up with an AMG version, with the 5-liter V-8, and supercharged. He was getting something like 500HP at the rear wheels! When he left, he about pulled the front wheels off the ground, with 3 people on board.

[denslexusgx470]

I've never seen a G class like that!

Well my friend's excited cuz his dad's new ML350 is coming in today (it's being driven down from Stockton from his grandpa's dealership) and they're gonna take the ML 55 AMG back up there I guess. So yea, after chillin with my friend today, gonna take a look at that new bad boy! lol. Doubt i'd get to drive it, but someday I will! lol.