monarch Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 I don't know what the official sales figures are, but out here in Calif. - which is probably the ES's strongest market - I've see substantially more '03 & '04 ES300/330's on the road than '05 & '06 models. My guess sales of the '05 &'06 models were hurt by by a number of factors such as: a) the hesitation, B) the sportier appearance and harsher ride of the '05 &'06 models turned off conservative senior buyers, c) some potential buyers purchased the all new, more conservatively styled, more roomy and hesitation-free Avalon.
SW03ES Posted June 18, 2006 Posted June 18, 2006 Or it could be that there are 3 model years of the 02-04 car on the road and only 1 1/2 of of the 05-06 car.
Ruff Posted July 19, 2006 Posted July 19, 2006 I own a 2003 ES300, and the transmission is the most irregular and uncomfortable shifting automatic of any automobile(15 total) I have ever owned. My poor 71 year old wife has her head jerked every time it downshifts suddenly after a delay. There are times when I want instant acceleration and the delay in shifting is scary! I have had two computer upgrades, but they have not eliminated the problem. It also now shifts at higher rpms than it did when I purchased it, giving me overal poorer milage. Lexus, please help us out!
amf1932 Posted July 20, 2006 Author Posted July 20, 2006 I own a 2003 ES300, and the transmission is the most irregular and uncomfortable shifting automatic of any automobile(15 total) I have ever owned. My poor 71 year old wife has her head jerked every time it downshifts suddenly after a delay. There are times when I want instant acceleration and the delay in shifting is scary! I have had two computer upgrades, but they have not eliminated the problem. It also now shifts at higher rpms than it did when I purchased it, giving me overal poorer milage. Lexus, please help us out! Sorry to say that I don't think Lexus is going to try any more ECM upgrades anymore. I had the same experiences you are having, and that's why I started this thread, May 20 2003. I suffered with this problem from the first day I drove the car out from the dealer, up until I traded it in for an ES350. I'm now completely happy with the new car, in every respect, but it's a damn shame that you, as well as many other drivers have to deal with this, with NO satisfaction, especially on a car called "Lexus".
BlackES350 Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue....
texagun Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue.... Thanks for your input! Please keep us informed on the outcome of your situation, and particularly if the new transmission is better. Was your '07 an early production car? Did the dealer have it on the lot since they first came out?
amf1932 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Posted July 21, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue.... It's very unfortunate that your ES350 is having a transmission problem, but by NO means is this the same as the '02-'06 problems!! I traded in my '03 ES mainly because of this and so far I have absolutely NO complaints about the transmission in my ES350. I love the new transmission, COMPLETELY!! Your problem is an isolated incident!!
BlackES350 Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue.... Thanks for your input! Please keep us informed on the outcome of your situation, and particularly if the new transmission is better. Was your '07 an early production car? Did the dealer have it on the lot since they first came out? I ordered the car on May 9th and it came in on May 22nd. Was not a dealer swap according to the salesperosn. Basically the car went straight from the delivery truck to me after dealer prep.
amf1932 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Posted July 21, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue.... Thanks for your input! Please keep us informed on the outcome of your situation, and particularly if the new transmission is better. Was your '07 an early production car? Did the dealer have it on the lot since they first came out? I just checked the manufacture date on my ES350.......it was March, 2006.......and everything works perfectly........so far. LOL
SW03ES Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 That sounds like a computer shift logic problem, I agree with Alan thats totally different than what he and others are talking about on the 02-06.
mikek753 Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 Wow :chairshot: I was under impression that Lexus fixed that issue in ES350 just today I changed lane and pressed gas pedal to the floor to accelerate and instead moving faster I got engine rev and NOTHING and then in .5 sec my car starts accelerate good thing is that I had good distance otherwise I would be hit in rear in no time that was at about 40-50 mph I have es330 I already gave up asking my dealer for that matter and trying just ride "slowly" and don't jump in between cars as I know I can't and watching for good distance before changing lane downshifting from "D" to "4" doesn't help much ether
wwest Posted July 21, 2006 Posted July 21, 2006 And now for the "bad" news...... There are reports that some owners of the new RAV4 with the I4 (yes, I4, not V6) engine are experiencing the engine delay/hesitation problem. Want the really BAD news....?? This "new" issue, the engine over-speeding during the delayed downshift and then the sudden "lurch" forward as the downshift gear engages, is most likely an evolutionary firmware "fix". My guess is that someone decided to "direct wire" (make it act like a mechanical coupling) the DBW throttle via a firmware fix and now the onus is on the transaxle firmware control group to get the transaxle into the lower gear more quickly. Can you imagine...?? This all started back in the last century when Toyota adopted the ASL, Aggressive Shift Logic, in order to improve fleet FE ~10%. What these transaxles need is an otherwise totally non-functional clutch pedal that the driver optionally can use to "advise" the transaxle firmware not to upshift just because the throttle was "lifted". Or evebn go ahead and downshift into 1st if the speed is low enough. Drivers would then use this "clutch" when in a situation wherein you KNOW you will soon "re-accelerate" (merging), or maybe accelerate before coming to a full stop, by depressing the otherwise totally non-functional clutch pedal. None of that would solve the safety issue raised by engine compression braking on FWD vehicles if that happens to be part and parcel for the quick upshift firmware specification. But hey, we survived all these years with that FWD hazard so why bother.
wwest Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Thinking out loud, again...............PAY ATTENTION.....!!! Almost all of these engine/transaxle delay/hesitation complaints, if not all of them, involve FWD or front biased AWD vehicles. When you are coming to a stop, coasting down to a stop, if the roadbed happens to be quite slippery there is a real danger that almost any level of engine compression braking will/can result in complete loss of directional control. What is, will be, the very first thing you would do, instinctively, if you felt the vehicle was not following the direction set by your stearing inputs? Lift the accelerator pedal..QUICKLY...!! If you are very near coming to a full and complete stop and the transaxle has already downshifted into 1st gear the level of engine compression braking could well be high enough to cause the front wheels/tires to completely break traction with the slippery roadbed. I have been involved in moderately slippery roadbed conditions with a RWD wherein the ABS was so active the vehicle would literally not come to a complete stop. I'm quite sure that had it been a FWD with just a slight level of engine compression braking the ABS would have been ineffective, maybe totally so. It is in these conditions that the AAA is currently recommending that drivers practice and learn to quickly shift a clutchless FWD vehicle's transaxle into neutral in order to increase the probability of maintaining directional control. It is hard for me to believe that Toyota would go to these measures to increase the safety factor of their FWD and front biased AWD vehicles and then silently endure the adverse publicity without speaking up with an explanation. So let's suppose that the insurance industry held a meeting with the automotive industry executives and told them that if they didn't in some way act to reduce or alleviate the number of accidents, injuries and deaths due to FWD engine braking they would go public and start charging a premium for policies involving operation of FWD and/or front biased AWD vehicles. We all know that BA, Brake Assist, involves monitoring the rate at which the brake pedal is applied and ASSISTING the level of braking if the application rate indicates a PANIC stop. So what if they are now also monitoring the RATE at which you lift the throttle and then quickly upshifting the transaxle accordingly. A simulation of the AAA recommendation. And no individual company dare go public absent an agreement amongst all FWD manufacturers. Look at Honda/Acura, the SH-AWD system specifically, who among us would have ever thought of that marque to the first to break ranks and begin the move away from FWD??
SW03ES Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Thinking out loud, again...............PAY ATTENTION.....!!! Almost all of these engine/transaxle delay/hesitation complaints, if not all of them, involve FWD or front biased AWD vehicles. For the hundreth time, that is NOT the case. PAY ATTENTION!
wwest Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Thinking out loud, again...............PAY ATTENTION.....!!! Almost all of these engine/transaxle delay/hesitation complaints, if not all of them, involve FWD or front biased AWD vehicles. For the hundreth time, that is NOT the case. PAY ATTENTION! And for the hundreth and one times.... Scarlett, I don't give a damn....!! No, really, yes, there are complaints of delay/hesitation on RWD cars, but the number doesn't nearly approach the level of complaints in the various forums about FWD and additionally there's not enough of them that are descriptive enough to form an opinion about the cause and effect. Whereas.... Regardless why is it that with the level of complaints this issue has reached all we are hearing is "it's operating as designed", or "it's to protect the drive train", and no known fix now for 4-5 years.
wwest Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 REGARDLESS....of the above.... My point is that FWD and front torque biased AWD owners are, at the very least, faced with a DIFFERENT driving dynamics adversity on a slippery roadbed surface than are RWD owners. There can be no question that engine drive and braking torque on a FWD represents a different problem to overcome and/or adapt one's driving style too over RWD. And frankly, only the automotive insurance companies are likely to be in a position wherein statistics are readily available to indicate that one circumstance is more hazardous overall than the other. So, regardless of what the actual reason for the delay/hesitation may turn out to be we must admit that having the transaxle upshift to reduce engine compression braking might just save a few lives and will certainly result in fewer loss of control accidents. And lastly... Back in my days in MT wintertime driving there were undoubtedly countless times that I applied the e-brake ever so lightly to bring the vehicle back into line when the rear end threatened to come around and lead, especially on a slippery downhill roadbed section. So engine compression braking on a RWD vehicle can be advantagous in certain conditions whereas on a FWD in the same conditions it is undoubtedly unsafe.
amf1932 Posted August 3, 2006 Author Posted August 3, 2006 Regardless why is it that with the level of complaints this issue has reached all we are hearing is "it's operating as designed", or "it's to protect the drive train", and no known fix now for 4-5 years. Because it took a completely re-designed transmission to eliminate this problem, and that's why I bought an ES350. I'm totally happy with this new unit. :)
mikek753 Posted August 3, 2006 Posted August 3, 2006 Because it took a completely re-designed transmission to eliminate this problem, and that's why I bought an ES350. I'm totally happy with this new unit. :) How much it cost you moving from 330 to 350? $1k - $5k? more?
amf1932 Posted August 3, 2006 Author Posted August 3, 2006 Because it took a completely re-designed transmission to eliminate this problem, and that's why I bought an ES350. I'm totally happy with this new unit. :) How much it cost you moving from 330 to 350? $1k - $5k? more? More, much more.......about $20 G's........but my happiness is very important. LOL :)
SW03ES Posted August 4, 2006 Posted August 4, 2006 And for the hundreth and one times.... Scarlett, I don't give a damn....!! No, really, yes, there are complaints of delay/hesitation on RWD cars, but the number doesn't nearly approach the level of complaints in the various forums about FWD and additionally there's not enough of them that are descriptive enough to form an opinion about the cause and effect. Because there are WAY more FWD Lexus units on the road than RWD units. The ES and the RX make up nearly 75% of all Lexus sales. Trust me, my family has had two RWD LS, both have the same throttle lag the ES does, both got the same response from the dealer, "Its just how they are". The problem has nothing to do with FWD. But, as you said, the facts have very little effect on these ramblings of yours ;)
BlackES350 Posted August 8, 2006 Posted August 8, 2006 I've been reviewing these forums for awhile as my wife has an 04 RX-330, but I just now decided to register after reading this thread. My brand new ES-350, with less than 2,000 miles is at the dealers with transmission problems. Seems as though whenever I would accelerate either from a roll or stop the transmission would seem to miss at 20 mph and then around 40, the transmission would act as if it did not know what to do. The transmission would hesitate and slip out of gear while the tach redlined, and then it would slip back into gear and lay rubber. This was a huge safety issue as you could not depend upon the car to accelerate around someone or pull out in front of a car without substantial distance between them. Dealer called in the region tech rep who in turn would not let the service guys open up the transmission. Instead they are ordering in a brand new transmission. I didn't read this forum about transmission problems with older models before I purchased the car. Probably would have bought anyway, but thought others would like to know the transmission problems with the ES continue.... Thanks for your input! Please keep us informed on the outcome of your situation, and particularly if the new transmission is better. Was your '07 an early production car? Did the dealer have it on the lot since they first came out? I just checked the manufacture date on my ES350.......it was March, 2006.......and everything works perfectly........so far. LOL I apologize for not following up on the status of my new ES 350 as I've been "out of pocket" for awhile. Anyway, got my car back from dealer, who reitereated that they pulled and replaced the entire transmission and sent my original transmission to the technical lab for review. Come to find out the entire problem was caused by a "snap" ring inside the transmission that was installed upside down and the problem was not detected during inspections. The new transmission works great and it appears the problem has been solved.
UCF3 Posted August 12, 2006 Posted August 12, 2006 from Del- A New Member "Report: I'm new to the forum and joined to find out if the dealer was blowing smoke up my skirt regarding my complaint on the 05 that I just bought with 12,000 miles. When slowing down for speed bumps or any other time when going below 5 mph and then accelerating, the car/transmission hesitates and then jerks with a downshift to low gear. The dealer tells me that if I use 89 octane, the problem will go away. I'm now into my third tank of 89 and the problem still exists. <br /><br />From what I've read thus far, this transmission is notorious for this. I had a 93 for several years and never had the problem. I'm looking for advice." __________________________________________ Del: You're not the only one with this problem. My 94 LS has the same problem and it happened after I changed the transmission fluid. I would switch from 89 to a 93 since most of these cars need the better fuel to operate efficiently. It also prevents Knocks in your engine. Now I find the transmission slamming into first kind of common occurance on the older cars. I wasn't expect that on the new ones. Also, I don't think the fuel should be related to the transmission. I'll check with one of my technician friends.
mgenette Posted September 3, 2006 Posted September 3, 2006 I originally joined this forum because I planned to buy an '04 RX, instead I bought an '05 ES330 (12,000 miles). I truly wish that I had read this forum first. My final choice was between an Accura and the Lexus. The 330 is the worst car I have ever driven. It is underpowered and lurchs when trying to accelerate from low speed. I thought it was just me so I had my wife drive it for a week while I was out of town. She wants her 2000 Chrysler back. It has more power and drives better. After reading 42 pages of posts I'm still confused...do I ask for the ECM ? Is it available for the '05? Do I have to downshift to 4 from D every time I approach a traffic light?? Does anyone want a white '05 330?
aminklein Posted September 12, 2006 Posted September 12, 2006 I agree that the 2005 ES 330 is the worst performing car that I've ever owned. I've filed many complaints with so many private and government organizations, I can't remember them all. However, the National Highway Safety Administration now has about a dozen complaints regarding this transmission. The center for Auto Safety has 17-18 complaints about this car, and ask if you're interested in a class action law suit. I suspect that if enough pople file complaints and say "yes" to the law suit, there may be some action. I believe that this is the only way to get Lexus to address the problem.
SW03ES Posted September 12, 2006 Posted September 12, 2006 18 complaints out of the approximately 350,000 02-06 ES's on the road... Thats the issue. I'm not saying theres not something funny about the way the transmission shifts (although it doesn't really bother me) but I am saying that the average owner doesn't see it as a problem. If they did, the sales figures of the ES would not have gone up every year during the 02-06 model years, and the ES wouldn't have maintained its very high repurchase rate.
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