Dino To Synthetic Motor Oil

[artbuc]

My 99 RX has 70k miles. Have changed oil every 3k or 3 months using Castrol 5-30W and NAPA Gold filters.

Reading about potential oil gel problem has me thinking about switching to synthetic. However, have also heard that synthetics tend to leak more than dino and I am afraid synthetic might initiate the infamous rear main seal leak.

So, considering everything, should I switch to synthetic? If I do switch, do I need to do any special flushing?

PS. I can't believe I even have to be concerned about these kinds of major issues with a Lexus!!!

[RX in NC]

After my wife's 2000 RX300 leaking rear main oil seal was replaced at about 72,000 miles under the Lexus "goodwill warranty" a couple of years ago, I put a lot of thought into whether I should switch from Valvoline 5W-30 conventional oil to a synthetic. I decided not to do so because of all the reports of various leaks that began showing up on numerous makes and models of vehicles that are converted to synthetic oil once they get to 40,000 or 50,000 miles after having always been run with conventional oil. I've run Valvoline in all of my vehicles since the mid-1970s and have never, ever had an engine oil problem with any of the 25 or so different cars, SUVs, and trucks that have come and gone through our stable since then.

My advice is to stick with your conventional Castrol and a decent oil filter and change your oil at least every 5,000 miles. But if you have the original poorly-designed and manufactured rear main oil seal still in your vehicle, you're at the point now where they often begin to show signs of leakage. Keep checking your garage floor under your engine on a regular basis and if you begin to see an oil puddle about the size of a dime every few days, you'll know that the RX300 rear main oil seal fairy has unfortunately paid you a visit recently....

[tmastres]

My 99 RX has 70k miles. Have changed oil every 3k or 3 months using Castrol 5-30W and NAPA Gold filters.

Reading about potential oil gel problem has me thinking about switching to synthetic. However, have also heard that synthetics tend to leak more than dino and I am afraid synthetic might initiate the infamous rear main seal leak.

So, considering everything, should I switch to synthetic? If I do switch, do I need to do any special flushing?

PS. I can't believe I even have to be concerned about these kinds of major issues with a Lexus!!!

If you stick to the 3k schedule for oil changes and are strict about it then you will probably be OK. The problem in the early RX series is the higher than normal heat put out by the Lex/Toy 3.0 V-6. The heat tends to break down conventional oils a lot faster and if you dont change the oil out often it will start to gel up on you.

With respect to RX in NC, I'd reccommend moving to synthetic. Bottom line is that you've got the car, and it is succeptible to sludging/geling, period. Do you want to take the risk or mitigate the risk almost entirely by simply using synthetic oil. With synth you can go 4-5k between changes (maybe longer) without much risk of gelling. If we were talking about a vehicle that had no history of oil-gel I might be more amenable to the dino-oil, but with these, I say why take any additional risk. You may save yourself, $50-$60 a year on oil , is that really very much?

As to the leakage issues, I've used or switched every vehicle I do or have maintained to synthetic oil and have no leaks to speak of, (knock wood)

I agree it is sad to have to deal with this kind of thing in a Lexus, but any first or second year (of production) vehicle will have problems either not anticipated or covered up by the manufacturer.

Its really not that un-common although it is painful and seriously annoying. Especially when the problems are as serious as the oil-gel and trans-failure issues are with the RX.

[TunedRX300]

My 99 RX has 70k miles. Have changed oil every 3k or 3 months using Castrol 5-30W and NAPA Gold filters.

Reading about potential oil gel problem has me thinking about switching to synthetic. However, have also heard that synthetics tend to leak more than dino and I am afraid synthetic might initiate the infamous rear main seal leak.

So, considering everything, should I switch to synthetic? If I do switch, do I need to do any special flushing?

PS. I can't believe I even have to be concerned about these kinds of major issues with a Lexus!!!

If you stick to the 3k schedule for oil changes and are strict about it then you will probably be OK. The problem in the early RX series is the higher than normal heat put out by the Lex/Toy 3.0 V-6. The heat tends to break down conventional oils a lot faster and if you dont change the oil out often it will start to gel up on you.

With respect to RX in NC, I'd reccommend moving to synthetic. Bottom line is that you've got the car, and it is succeptible to sludging/geling, period. Do you want to take the risk or mitigate the risk almost entirely by simply using synthetic oil. With synth you can go 4-5k between changes (maybe longer) without much risk of gelling. If we were talking about a vehicle that had no history of oil-gel I might be more amenable to the dino-oil, but with these, I say why take any additional risk. You may save yourself, $50-$60 a year on oil , is that really very much?

As to the leakage issues, I've used or switched every vehicle I do or have maintained to synthetic oil and have no leaks to speak of, (knock wood)

I agree it is sad to have to deal with this kind of thing in a Lexus, but any first or second year (of production) vehicle will have problems either not anticipated or covered up by the manufacturer.

Its really not that un-common although it is painful and seriously annoying. Especially when the problems are as serious as the oil-gel and trans-failure issues are with the RX.

I agree, 1mz-fe is harsh on oil. If owners follow 5K interval, sludge can buildup slowly over time; or gross neglect, which sludge can accumulate quickly

The way our engine is chewing up oil, 5K is not short enough for most dino oil, the acid neutralizing additive will be long depleted before 5K. This is shown on every spectrum report of used oil analysis on 1mz-fe. In addition to the accelerated depletion of chemical additives, the physical nature of dino oil is altered as well: Toyota branded 5w-30 dino oil is shown to shear down to 20 weight oil in < 200 miles after the oil change.

I will let oil company to speak for syn oil causing leaks. They make both dino and syn oils.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorO...tics/Myths.aspx

Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars.

Reality:

Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 was tested in dozens of industry standard and original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1. ExxonMobil also recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use.

[RX in NC]

I agree that synthetic oil does not CAUSE leaks. The problem is that synthetic oil FINDS leaks. If you have a susceptible seal somewhere that is holding up just fine for your conventional oil, synthetic oil will find it and breach it. Folks who want to convert their vehicles to synthetic oil after 50,000 or 60,000 miles should be made aware of this. They may wind up having to chase multiple oil leaks (which equals expensive repairs) and may wind up spending far more time and money on finding and fixing the leaks than they care to deal with....

[mikey00]

I agree that synthetic oil does not CAUSE leaks. The problem is that synthetic oil FINDS leaks. If you have a susceptible seal somewhere that is holding up just fine for your conventional oil, synthetic oil will find it and breach it. Folks who want to convert their vehicles to synthetic oil after 50,000 or 60,000 miles should be made aware of this. They may wind up having to chase multiple oil leaks (which equals expensive repairs) and may wind up spending far more time and money on finding and fixing the leaks than they care to deal with....

I always thought the ExxonMobil information was carefully written by their marketing department to try to discredit the many claims of oil leeks after switching to synthetic. They emphasize the fact that synthetic will not actually cause oil leeks but shy away from the actual claims that an engine that does not leek with dino may leek with synthetic.

[mburnickas]

synthetic oil does not cause leaks. The leaks where, again where always there. Synthetic cleaned it out.

[TunedRX300]

I agree that synthetic oil does not CAUSE leaks. The problem is that synthetic oil FINDS leaks. If you have a susceptible seal somewhere that is holding up just fine for your conventional oil, synthetic oil will find it and breach it. Folks who want to convert their vehicles to synthetic oil after 50,000 or 60,000 miles should be made aware of this. They may wind up having to chase multiple oil leaks (which equals expensive repairs) and may wind up spending far more time and money on finding and fixing the leaks than they care to deal with....

I always thought the ExxonMobil information was carefully written by their marketing department to try to discredit the many claims of oil leeks after switching to synthetic. They emphasize the fact that synthetic will not actually cause oil leeks but shy away from the actual claims that an engine that does not leek with dino may leek with synthetic.

It remains as a myth until someone conduct a scientific study that show syn oil causing leak. Here is one attempt with a sample pool of 74 cars and the result is inconclusive.

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~jkrane/cars/synth_survey.html

If EOM marketing department is crafty, then the following two oil companies are not as slick.

Castrol Syntec meets ACEA seal protection. Apparent tests are done to back up Castrol's claim.

From Castrol's web site

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarti...ntentId=7017050

FACT or MYTH?

Synthetic motor oil will ruin the seals in older vehicles and cause leaks.

Answer: MYTH! We're not sure who leaked that rumor, but synthetic motor oil does not cause leaks. It is 100% compatible with all automotive seal and gasket materials. In fact, SYNTEC meets additional ACEA seal protection requirements not even addressed in API specs.

Similiar statement from Quaker State

http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp

Myth #5

Synthetic oil causes engine leaks.

Synthetic motor oils eat gasket material and cause engines to leak.

Synthetic motor oils affect engine seals and result in excessive oil leakage.

Synthetic oil can’t be used on high-mileage engines.

Synthetic and synthetic blend motor oils cannot be used in older or high-mileage vehicles.

Fact

Synthetic oils do not cause engine oil leaks. Deteriorated and hardened seals and gasket material cause engine oil leaks. If the seals are already leaking with conventional motor oil, they will leak with synthetic oil. If the seals are in good condition, synthetic oils may be used in high-mileage engines.

Also one must ask, do I want to fix the cause of the seal or merely use thicker oil or sludge to cover it up?

Keep in mind that surgically repairing the physical seal is not the only way to fix the leak. There are natural ester based additive that clean up the sludge and makes seal to its original pliable condition.

[Grumpa72]

As others have stated, I believe this is an urban legend. To my knowledge, there isn't any verifiable history in this rumor. It justs keeps getting passed on. Do a Google search on synthetic oils and leakage and you will see that synthetics are not a cause of leakage. For those folks who have had leakage to THEIR car, and not your distant second cousin who told your sister ;), then I would suggest that MAYBE if you have an old car with poor oil change history, and minor sludge build-up, then PERHAPS the synthetic oil cleaned out sludge that was keeping oil from leaking past worn seals or gaskets.

By the way, I have successfully switched my 79 Mercedes and 77 Buick from dino to synthetic, and I run my 93 Acura Legene and 2005 Lexus RX-330 on Mobil 1. The Mercedes and Buick are gone but never leaked. My daughter's 95 Acura Integra and her 97 Camry (switched from dino to synthetics at 60,000) both get synthetics. No leaks.

Gary

[SKperformance]

moved to the general section where there are multiple debates ongoing there.

[mburnickas]

My 99 RX has 70k miles. Have changed oil every 3k or 3 months using Castrol 5-30W and NAPA Gold filters.

Reading about potential oil gel problem has me thinking about switching to synthetic. However, have also heard that synthetics tend to leak more than dino and I am afraid synthetic might initiate the infamous rear main seal leak.

So, considering everything, should I switch to synthetic? If I do switch, do I need to do any special flushing?

PS. I can't believe I even have to be concerned about these kinds of major issues with a Lexus!!!

I must add this. I think this oil gel is 100% BS. If you do normal changes with dino or use synthetic and go longer, you will be fine. Plus change you air filters when they need it along with oil. Do not forget PCV. ...important.

This type of issue is not isolated to Lexus/Toyota.

Happened to:

VW

Dodge

Chrysler

Audi

[TunedRX300]

My 99 RX has 70k miles. Have changed oil every 3k or 3 months using Castrol 5-30W and NAPA Gold filters.

Reading about potential oil gel problem has me thinking about switching to synthetic. However, have also heard that synthetics tend to leak more than dino and I am afraid synthetic might initiate the infamous rear main seal leak.

So, considering everything, should I switch to synthetic? If I do switch, do I need to do any special flushing?

PS. I can't believe I even have to be concerned about these kinds of major issues with a Lexus!!!

I must add this. I think this oil gel is 100% BS. If you do normal changes with dino or use synthetic and go longer, you will be fine. Plus change you air filters when they need it along with oil. Do not forget PCV. ...important.

This type of issue is not isolated to Lexus/Toyota.

Happened to:

VW

Dodge

Chrysler

Audi

I doubt owners of 1mz-fe find any comfort by associating Toyota/Lexus with other sludge engine makers. It is odd the #1 reliability automaker to be in the same group as VW, Audi, Dodge, Chrysler. Do we really want our Lexus cars to be as reliable as these second tier German and American brands?

[mburnickas]

I agree:)

I am just saying is that this oil gell issue is WAY overblown and I have a sludge engine (with zero sludge).

[tmastres]

I agree:)

I am just saying is that this oil gell issue is WAY overblown and I have a sludge engine (with zero sludge).

Just out of curiosity , whats your maintenace schedule? The sludging is definitely happening to some people, the only question is how long can you go between changes with dino oil and still avoid it?

Perhaps secondly, why chance it at all? Just use synthetic.

[mburnickas]

I agree:)

I am just saying is that this oil gell issue is WAY overblown and I have a sludge engine (with zero sludge).

Just out of curiosity , whats your maintenace schedule? The sludging is definitely happening to some people, the only question is how long can you go between changes with dino oil and still avoid it?

Perhaps secondly, why chance it at all? Just use synthetic.

A lot longer then the manual :) To see how long the oil is good along with engine condition I would again spend the $15 to $20 and look at key areas. I know I push oil testing but it is cheap and a wonderful + powerful tool.

[tmastres]

Well, now you've got me curious. I've thought about doing the oil-test thing in the past but I've always felt pretty safe with the syth oil so it wasn't too much of a concern. Any rec's on a testing lab? Thx

[mburnickas]

Well, now you've got me curious. I've thought about doing the oil-test thing in the past but I've always felt pretty safe with the syth oil so it wasn't too much of a concern. Any rec's on a testing lab? Thx

Blackstone is ok but over priced.

UOA is the best value for the dollar

Cat is good

Oil tech is a little high but fast to no end!

[djspawn00]

Just wondering if anyone else got a letter from toyota extending the warranty on that sludge prone V6 of theirs?

[mburnickas]

Just wondering if anyone else got a letter from toyota extending the warranty on that sludge prone V6 of theirs?

yes, a few years ago.

[RX in NC]

Yes, originally in late 2003 after asking Lexus Corporate to send it to me and more recently, the class-action lawsuit letter this past November.

[Scrub Hunter]

They just came out with a gov't forced letter for all those who haven't gotten one yet. I think many T&L owners still have NO CLUE about it.

[MTOM01]

They just came out with a gov't forced letter for all those who haven't gotten one yet. I think many T&L owners still have NO CLUE about it.

I have a 2000 RX 300, with 54K, will I get any extended warranty for the so called sludge uilding engine. If so where should I call?

;)

[mburnickas]

I have a 2000 RX 300, with 54K, will I get any extended warranty for the so called sludge uilding engine. If so where should I call?

;)

The sludge issue is WAY over blown in my book. But, yes you should and lexus sends letters based on VIN numbers. If you are the 2nd etc owner, if depends on the org owner.

[Scrub Hunter]

If the Republican controlled US goverment says there is a sludge problem with certain Lexus's, I'm going off that personally. I have read more complaints about Lexus and sludge than I care too. They had a design flaw, it's fixed, but that doesn't make it better for the 100,000's of people who are effected by this settlement. If you get the letter or your Lexus falls under the years effected, get it checked.

[mburnickas]

If the Republican controlled US goverment says there is a sludge problem with certain Lexus's, I'm going off that personally. I have read more complaints about Lexus and sludge than I care too. They had a design flaw, it's fixed, but that doesn't make it better for the 100,000's of people who are effected by this settlement. If you get the letter or your Lexus falls under the years effected, get it checked.

Okay but if there was a "design flaw" why is there only 3,000 plus issues vs 3 MILLION engines produced? As why is the settlement stating there is no design issues with the engines? The settlement is a joke, like most out there. I bet 100 to 1, most do not have this issue...............

I had the letter and tossed it in the trash. It means nothing.