Black Box In Your Car

[LEXIRX330]

I was reading about this on another forum...wanted to see what you guy/gals thought about this...

Leading Criminal Case In the case of Montreal (Canada) v. Eric Gauthier which was tried October 2003 or thereabout, in which Mr. Gauthier was driving his Pontiac Sunfire, when his vehicle collided with another and the driver of the other car, died at the scene. Mr. Gauthier was accused of traveling between 130 to 160 km/h in a 50-km/h zone. The police department used the black box exclusively, which was a first in Montreal. The Judge allowed the black box into evidence to determine Mr. Gauthier vehicle's speed, with no other collaborating evidence. Mr. Gauthier was convicted of dangerous driving, but was cleared of the more serious charge of criminal negligence.

Full story:

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/legal/article19.asp

This is how I feel about it...

The accident was his fault and he should be charged with...whatever the judge or jury wants to give him. The sad thing is if he took a gun and shot someone he would probably only get half of the time. Why not get stripped searched before entering and leaving all public places? Why shouldn't everyone have to take a breathalyzer before starting your car? Why not make it mandatory for all employers to drug test? Why not limit the speeds cars will drive...I am sure that they could make a device that could control the speeds of our cars so in a 55 you could only drive 55... and so on.

It is those of us that do obey the law are always sacrificing our rights and freedoms for people who do not and will not obey the law...regardless of who is watching!

Why couldn't insurance companies get this info...they would love to get their hands on it so they can charge you more money if you speed...run a stop sign...etc... Auto makers...to deny warranties...Tire companies to void warranties...this could go on forever. And don't say that they could never get the info...it will be just a matter of time and then you are going to see "well if they can use this information in court...we should be able to use it too" Who is going to end up paying for this..."the consumer" Who would have thought 15 - 20 years ago that cameras could give you a ticket?

There could be some good to come out of the EDR but I do not like it...

I do not want someone watching every move I make...why not just plant micro chips in us that records everything we do in life ???

[SW03ES]

The accident was his fault and he should be charged with...whatever the judge or jury wants to give him. The sad thing is if he took a gun and shot someone he would probably only get half of the time. Why not get stripped searched before entering and leaving all public places? Why shouldn't everyone have to take a breathalyzer before starting your car? Why not make it mandatory for all employers to drug test? Why not limit the speeds cars will drive...I am sure that they could make a device that could control the speeds of our cars so in a 55 you could only drive 55... and so on.

It is those of us that do obey the law are always sacrificing our rights and freedoms for people who do not and will not obey the law...regardless of who is watching!

Because this is America and these things are a violation of our civil rights. Its hyper-control sentiments like this that lead to a gradual stripping away of these freedoms.

[LEXIRX330]

The accident was his fault and he should be charged with...whatever the judge or jury wants to give him. The sad thing is if he took a gun and shot someone he would probably only get half of the time. Why not get stripped searched before entering and leaving all public places? Why shouldn't everyone have to take a breathalyzer before starting your car? Why not make it mandatory for all employers to drug test? Why not limit the speeds cars will drive...I am sure that they could make a device that could control the speeds of our cars so in a 55 you could only drive 55... and so on.

It is those of us that do obey the law are always sacrificing our rights and freedoms for people who do not and will not obey the law...regardless of who is watching!

Because this is America and these things are a violation of our civil rights. Its hyper-control sentiments like this that lead to a gradual stripping away of these freedoms.

;) What?

Sorry...I was being sarcastic...

That is what I meant by It is those of us that do obey the law are always sacrificing our rights and freedoms for people who do not and will not obey the law...regardless of who is watching!

So what do you think about the black box in your car?

[RFeldes]

I saw on the news two days ago where two people have been sent to prison in the U.S. due to evidence provided by these boxes of excess speed in regard to vehicular manslaughter. Most 2002 and newer vehicles have them. They are supposed to monitor air bag deployment and speed upon their deployment. Yes, they are being used in courtrooms.

[denslexusgx470]

My 4Runner has it. Seems ridiculous, but I don't mind. It gives the truth, like in airplanes when they crash, nobody really knows what happened unless there is someone, or SOMETHING that will record exactly what happened at the last moments before the accident.

[SW03ES]

;) What?

Sorry...I was being sarcastic...

I had a feeling you might have been lol

So what do you think about the black box in your car?

Not a fan.

[denslexusgx470]

Well we can't complain about it, unless we pledge to never buy a new car again. ;) Now that isn't possible, now is it? :)

[Rx330driver]

why is this news to me now? i had no idea new cars came with "black boxes"!

how does it know what to record...or does it just do it constantly...?!?!?

[bartkat]

Well we can't complain about it, unless we pledge to never buy a new car again. ;) Now that isn't possible, now is it? :)

It won't be long before used cars have them too.

[denslexusgx470]

why is this news to me now? i had no idea new cars came with "black boxes"!

how does it know what to record...or does it just do it constantly...?!?!?

Maybe reading your owner's manual will help. My dad read the owner's manual on the 4R, and that's how we found out about it also.

Here it is, the "event data recorder" info on the right side of my scanned page

(sorry for a bad photocopy, my manual couldn't fit correctly on my scanner)

Well we can't complain about it, unless we pledge to never buy a new car again. ;) Now that isn't possible, now is it? :)

It won't be long before used cars have them too.

You think govt will install them on used cars too? Doubt that, they never made it mandatory for all old cars to have seatbelts if they have one w/o them. ;)

[Rx330driver]

so when did the black boxes come standard on cars....cause i know your 4 runner is brand new. My newest car so far is my RX '04....i have not seen that notice in my manual

[Lexusfreak]

I was reading about this on another forum...wanted to see what you guy/gals thought about this...

Leading Criminal Case In the case of Montreal (Canada) v. Eric Gauthier which was tried October 2003 or thereabout, in which Mr. Gauthier was driving his Pontiac Sunfire, when his vehicle collided with another and the driver of the other car, died at the scene. Mr. Gauthier was accused of traveling between 130 to 160 km/h in a 50-km/h zone. The police department used the black box exclusively, which was a first in Montreal. The Judge allowed the black box into evidence to determine Mr. Gauthier vehicle's speed, with no other collaborating evidence. Mr. Gauthier was convicted of dangerous driving, but was cleared of the more serious charge of criminal negligence.

Full story:

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/legal/article19.asp

This is how I feel about it...

The accident was his fault and he should be charged with...whatever the judge or jury wants to give him. The sad thing is if he took a gun and shot someone he would probably only get half of the time. Why not get stripped searched before entering and leaving all public places? Why shouldn't everyone have to take a breathalyzer before starting your car? Why not make it mandatory for all employers to drug test? Why not limit the speeds cars will drive...I am sure that they could make a device that could control the speeds of our cars so in a 55 you could only drive 55... and so on.

It is those of us that do obey the law are always sacrificing our rights and freedoms for people who do not and will not obey the law...regardless of who is watching!

Why couldn't insurance companies get this info...they would love to get their hands on it so they can charge you more money if you speed...run a stop sign...etc... Auto makers...to deny warranties...Tire companies to void warranties...this could go on forever. And don't say that they could never get the info...it will be just a matter of time and then you are going to see "well if they can use this information in court...we should be able to use it too" Who is going to end up paying for this..."the consumer" Who would have thought 15 - 20 years ago that cameras could give you a ticket?

There could be some good to come out of the EDR but I do not like it...

I do not want someone watching every move I make...why not just plant micro chips in us that records everything we do in life ???

Not to worry about that case LEX.......they try to be different all the time in Quebec.......they want to form their own country within Canada & have for years lol.

[denslexusgx470]

so when did the black boxes come standard on cars....cause i know your 4 runner is brand new. My newest car so far is my RX '04....i have not seen that notice in my manual

I have reason to believe, maybe they're installed in the 05s and newer or 06 and newer. I checked my GX manual, and it's an 03 and there's barely any warnings in the front pages. My scanned 4runner manual, the warning or data recorder info was printed within the first few pages.

[nc211]

Personally, I'm not against the use of the black box in the cars these days. With soooo many greasy lawyers running around, and bad drivers, it sure can come in handy if you have been wrongfully accused of causing the accident in question, and being sued. I had a guy hit me years ago, and the cop blamed me for trying to pass him on the right, of a two lane road?? He blamed me because I had a guy from NYC with me, who berrated the cop and called him Barney Fiefth, etc... That doesn't fly down here in the south too well. Luckily, I had a Poloraid camera in the car, took pictures, and the case was tossed out by the DA, and the cop was repremanded to desk duty. The guy was actually trying to sue me for $50k! Luckily I was working on a movie back then "Virus", and Universal stepped in and hired some attorneys for me.

[bartkat]

Well we can't complain about it, unless we pledge to never buy a new car again. ;) Now that isn't possible, now is it? :)

It won't be long before used cars have them too.

You think govt will install them on used cars too? Doubt that, they never made it mandatory for all old cars to have seatbelts if they have one w/o them. ;)

No, but cars that already have black boxes are and will be on the used car market. :D :D

[LEXIRX330]

why is this news to me now? i had no idea new cars came with "black boxes"!

how does it know what to record...or does it just do it constantly...?!?!?

I have heard different reports on this...some say that it can record the last few minutes before the airbags are deployed...and others say that it can hold over 300 minutes of your driving. So that say a car company could look at driving habits.

This is what is in my wife's MB:

From my 2006 W203 manual page 19:

Vehicle data recording

Information regarding electronic recording devices

(Including notice pursuant to California Code § 9951)

Please note that your vehicle is equipped with devices that can record vehicle systems data and, if equipped with the Tele Aid system, may transmit some data in certain accidents.

This information helps, for example, to diagnose vehicle systems after a collision and to continuously improve vehicle safety.

DaimlerChrysler may access the information and share it with others

for safety research or vehicle diagnosis purposes

with the consent of the vehicle owner or lessee

in response to an official request by law enforcement or other government agency

for use in dispute resolution involving DaimlerChrysler, its affiliates or sales/service organization and/or

as otherwise required or permitted by law.

Please check the Tele Aid subscription service agreement for details regarding the information that may be recorded or transmitted via that system.

Personally, I'm not against the use of the black box in the cars these days. With soooo many greasy lawyers running around, and bad drivers, it sure can come in handy if you have been wrongfully accused of causing the accident in question, and being sued. I had a guy hit me years ago, and the cop blamed me for trying to pass him on the right, of a two lane road?? He blamed me because I had a guy from NYC with me, who berrated the cop and called him Barney Fiefth, etc... That doesn't fly down here in the south too well. Luckily, I had a Poloraid camera in the car, took pictures, and the case was tossed out by the DA, and the cop was repremanded to desk duty. The guy was actually trying to sue me for $50k! Luckily I was working on a movie back then "Virus", and Universal stepped in and hired some attorneys for me.

That is the one good use for them! But I still think that they can cause significant problems since they are not proven to be 100% accurate.

[denslexusgx470]

Well we can't complain about it, unless we pledge to never buy a new car again. ;) Now that isn't possible, now is it? :)

It won't be long before used cars have them too.

You think govt will install them on used cars too? Doubt that, they never made it mandatory for all old cars to have seatbelts if they have one w/o them. ;)

No, but cars that already have black boxes are and will be on the used car market. :D :D

Ah that's true. What I meant was that would you never buy another car, new or used, unless it was built in 04 or older. :P

[SKperformance]

All vehicles since 1997 with second generation airbags all have data recorders built into the SRS system to record the info for a 20 second window before the srs sytem is activated.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

I am against having 'black boxes' in our cars. And for several reasons. Sure - there are always going to be sound arguments in favour of such things - but I think that overall - they are an infringement on our right to privacy. First off.... how many of us even KNOW if our cars have 'black boxes'? Did you know when you bought the car? If they're such a great idea - why aren't auto companies bragging about them? I mean - 'they' are in our cars for OUR sake - aren't they?! And why aren't salesman pointing out that 'great feature' while you're test driving a car? I had no idea that my Chrysler had a 'black box' until just recently.

IF anything - I should have been informed of the box and asked to sign an agreement allowing the 'authorities' to retrieve information from that box in the event of an accident. How can anyone assume the right to download information from MY property? I do OWN that 'black box'. Or don't I?!

Also.... the danger with computers and the information they collect - is the faith people have IN that information. A little while ago - a U.S. Senator [or someone up there] had a car accident. The 'black box' mistakenly 'reported' that the Senator was NOT wearing his seat belt. But in court - both the ambulance attendants and the doctors in the hospital emergency room testified that the Senators BODY clearly showed otherwise. [His torso and stomach had bruises that were typical of accident victims who WERE wearing their seat belts]

We have to be very careful when it comes to our right to privacy being invaded. I assure you - there ARE people in this world [in our governments] who would love nothing more than to follow your EVERY move.

Craig!! :)

[denslexusgx470]

Hi Guys!! :)

I am against having 'black boxes' in our cars. And for several reasons. Sure - there are always going to be sound arguments in favour of such things - but I think that overall - they are an infringement on our right to privacy. First off.... how many of us even KNOW if our cars have 'black boxes'? Did you know when you bought the car? If they're such a great idea - why aren't auto companies bragging about them? I mean - 'they' are in our cars for OUR sake - aren't they?! And why aren't salesman pointing out that 'great feature' while you're test driving a car? I had no idea that my Chrysler had a 'black box' until just recently.

IF anything - I should have been informed of the box and asked to sign an agreement allowing the 'authorities' to retrieve information from that box in the event of an accident. How can anyone assume the right to download information from MY property? I do OWN that 'black box'. Or don't I?!

Also.... the danger with computers and the information they collect - is the faith people have IN that information. A little while ago - a U.S. Senator [or someone up there] had a car accident. The 'black box' mistakenly 'reported' that the Senator was NOT wearing his seat belt. But in court - both the ambulance attendants and the doctors in the hospital emergency room testified that the Senators BODY clearly showed otherwise. [His torso and stomach had bruises that were typical of accident victims who WERE wearing their seat belts]

We have to be very careful when it comes to our right to privacy being invaded. I assure you - there ARE people in this world [in our governments] who would love nothing more than to follow your EVERY move.

Craig!! :)

well the only solution is to never buy a car unless it was made in 04 or older. This is like the seatbelts, don't like it but you gotta have it. Yes it doesn't really compare to the black box privacy but it's the law now. Like in Canada, it's the law to have DRLs but some people just hate having lights on during the daytime.

[SKperformance]

If you read my previous post it is all vehicles since 97 not 04 that have a data recorder.

[LEXIRX330]

If you read my previous post it is all vehicles since 97 not 04 that have a data recorder.

I read your post...and I have a question?

You said that the EDR records info for a 20 second window before the srs system is activated. I have seen reports that show much longer times as I said up to 300 minutes. Just wondering are you saying that at least 20 seconds, or only 20 seconds?

[denslexusgx470]

If you read my previous post it is all vehicles since 97 not 04 that have a data recorder.

But that's for SRS. We're talking about the new black box that only newer vehicles have. Now if you get in an accident that doesn't trigger the SRS, then the data recorder of the SRS wouldn't really matter. The new black box would record everything regarding any accident even if the airbags deploy or not.

[SKperformance]

If you are saying it is not dependent on the srs to activate a trigger , then what would it use to stop collecting data ?Other wise all you need to do is idle the vehicle long enough to clear the last information stored after a crash.

I am going by memory for the 20 second window as that is more than needed to retrace a vehicles steps leading up to a crash.

[denslexusgx470]

Well if it functions and records like the new black box, then what's the use of the new data recorder that newer vehicles have? The car company should just use that SRS data recorder for their back-up in lawsuits instead of going through the hassle of putting one themselves.

It may record that 20 sec window of the crash, but the new data recorder is a lot worse. It records the shifter position (even though it should be always in D), seat position of occupants, amount of depression of the accelerator and brakes (if the brakes were even applied), seatbelts of both the driver and passenger(if they were buckled), and front passenger classification.

All these are not included in the SRS data recorder.