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1993 Lexus Ls400 Vs 2006 Chrysler 300c Srt8


CanadaCraig

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Hi Guys!! :)

I hope you're OK.

I've done this a few times now and it always turns out the same.

My 1993 Lexus LS400 [as you all know] has a 4.0 litre V8 that makes 250 h.p. and 260 lb/ft of torque. My particular LS400 takes a leisurely 12 seconds to reach 60 MPH and has a top speed of 117 MPH.

My 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8 has a 6.1 litre V8 that makes 425 h.p. and 420 lb/ft of torque. It can reach 60 MPH in less than 5 seconds and has a top speed of 173 MPH. [According to Car & Driver magazine - at least]

On average - my 1993 Lexus LS400 gets 16.79 MILES PER U.S. GALLON.

On average - my 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8 gets 16.91 MILES PER U.S. GALLON.

Something MUST be wrong with the Lexus? Don't you think?!

Oh well...

A brief update:

The extended warranty on my LS400 is over. It cost me $2,000 when I bought the car just over 3 years ago. I haven't added everything up - just yet - but the warranty company ended up paying for more than $4,500 in repairs. So I certainly got my money's worth. [Extended warranty wise]

During the last service - the other ignition coil was replaced and so was the tachometre needle. I think it drives a little better - maybe - but the gas mileage is still horrible [at least I think so] and it still takes 12 seconds to reach 60. But I'm not planning on doing anything about it. [At least not right away - now that the warranty is gone] It's too bad though. At least I can't accuse my Lexus dealer of being unfair. I lost count of how many courtesy cars I had. And the last one I had - the Toyota 4Runner - I had for over 3 weeks!! [At no cost to me]

If I ever do get to adding everything up - I'll let you know exactly what was done. AND just how much it cost.

BUT....

This was a message about gas mileage!!

Have a great day.

Craig!! :)

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On average - my 1993 Lexus LS400 gets 16.79 MILES PER U.S. GALLON.

On average - my 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8 gets 16.91 MILES PER U.S. GALLON.

Something MUST be wrong with the Lexus? Don't you think?!

I'll tell you exactly why the 300C gets better mileage than the LS400, its 13 years newer. Seriously, there have been SO many advances in emissions and economy technologies over those 13 years, of course the 300C is going to have better mileage.

I think its time you just get rid of the LS400, its 14 years old and it was owned by somebody else for 11, I think you expect too much from it.

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Hi Craig, everything is good here, I hope the same for you.

Your Chrysler has the "multiple cylinder deactivation" I believe, which adds a few percentage points to the fuel economy. Of course the more modern engine management system, and a very tall final drive ratio help too.

My LS will get about 22 in town, and 30 on the highway, in imperial gallons. What is the Hemi by the same measure?

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Hi,

I just want you guys to know, I have 460,000 kms (over 285,000 miles) and I still get 26 american mpg. It still accelerates from 0 t0 60 mph in around 8 seconds. Not bad for a 1991 Ls400. I have never checked my car for top speed, so can't tell you that. So I would say there is something wrong with CanadaCraig's car. I can't believe a good mechanic can't figure this one out. Daffy

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I think its time you just get rid of the LS400, its 14 years old and it was owned by somebody else for 11, I think you expect too much from it.
There's nothing wrong with expecting decent fuel mileage out of the car. My '95 still gets great mileage (usually over 26mpg on the hwy), and its got a hell of a lot more miles than Craig's car. I hope he doesn't sell the car until he figures out what is making it so slow; I'll sleep a lot better at night knowing what it was! LOL
I can't believe a good mechanic can't figure this one out.
I agree. It seems like this would be simple for the dealer to solve with their diagnostic scanners and what not.
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I'll tell you exactly why the 300C gets better mileage than the LS400, its 13 years newer. Seriously, there have been SO many advances in emissions and economy technologies over those 13 years, of course the 300C is going to have better mileage.

I think its time you just get rid of the LS400, its 14 years old and it was owned by somebody else for 11, I think you expect too much from it.

Hi SW03ES!! :)

I'm willing to bet that most guys would disagree with you. My 1993 LS400 only has 86,000 miles. Lots of parts have already been replaced that have to do with gas mileage and performance. [As you probably know] The idea that I should merely accept how my car performs AND be OK with the gas mileage it's getting because it's a 14 years old car - is an idea that doesn't hold water. [Or at least not nearly as much 'water' as you seem to think it does]

I went back through many of the previously posted messages - here at LOC - and this is what I found.

'akewlguy' - 1993 LS400 - 19 MPG city/23 MPG highway

'Dust' - 1992 LS400 - 20 MPG - on average [195,000 miles on his car]

'VBDenny' - 1990 LS400 - 18 MPG city/24 MPG highway [150,000 miles on his car]

'branshew' - 1993 LS400 - 22 MPG - on average

'PK Lex' - 1994 LS400 - 19 MPG - on average

'93LSOwner - 1993 LS400 - 18 MPG city/21 MPG highway

'OmarG' - 1993 LS400 - 18 MPG - on average

'AustinGT' - 1990 LS400 - 17 MPG city/25.5 MPG highway

'frodo1028' - 1992 LS400 - 18.8 MPG - on average

'SRK' - 1992 LS400 - 18.32 MPG city/24.97 MPG highway

'daffy' - 1991 LS400 - 26 MPG [highway - I'm assuming]

As you can see - most guys with 1st generation LS400's ARE getting better gas mileage with their car than I am with my car. I think I have a right to be irked by that.

Craig!! :)

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Hi Craig, everything is good here, I hope the same for you.

Your Chrysler has the "multiple cylinder deactivation" I believe, which adds a few percentage points to the fuel economy. Of course the more modern engine management system, and a very tall final drive ratio help too.

My LS will get about 22 in town, and 30 on the highway, in imperial gallons. What is the Hemi by the same measure?

Hi SRK!! :)

I'm glad to hear that all things are good your way!! [is that proper English?! lol] I'm OK too - I think!!

Your car is getting 18.32 miles per U.S. gallon in the city and 24.97 miles per U.S. gallon on the highway. That seems to be about what most guys are getting with their 1st generation LS.

The 300C SRT8 is getting - on average - 20.31 miles for every Imperial gallon.

If you click on THIS you'll find a handy-dandy MPG conversion 'thing'.

The 6.1 liter engine in my 300C does not have what's called 'MDS'. [Multiple Displacement System] Only the 5.7 liter engine has that cylinder deactivation 'thing'.

Granted - the 300C is a newer car and has a more up-to-date engine management system AND it also has an extra gear - being a 5-speed. But it is also geared for performance and it weighs about 400 lbs more. I also drive it considerably more aggressively than I do the LS400. [Comparatively speaking]

Take care of yourself,

Craig!! :)

PS Are you enjoying the RAIN RAIN RAIN WIND RAIN WIND RAIN?! lol

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Hi Craig,

Been watching your posts and feel a total frustration as to what is the problem with your LS as you have truly put in an effort. I can think of no other member that has tried as hard as you have and I am truly sorry you have an LS that dogs you. Sometimes we have to move on in life and I believe now is the time ,in your case. Your Chrysler is a fine machine and time to enjoy it. God speed my friend and move on knowing you have done a great job and added a valuable lot of input. I'm at a loss as to your problem with the LS and truly feel one day it will be solved. Until then, don't give it a second thought and enjoy the Chrysler. ;)

You are a Stand Up Guy!!!

Ralph

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Hi,

I just want you guys to know, I have 460,000 kms (over 285,000 miles) and I still get 26 american mpg. It still accelerates from 0 t0 60 mph in around 8 seconds. Not bad for a 1991 Ls400. I have never checked my car for top speed, so can't tell you that. So I would say there is something wrong with CanadaCraig's car. I can't believe a good mechanic can't figure this one out. Daffy

Hi daffy!! :)

I hope you're OK.

Your LS has 200,000 miles MORE than my LS has. I think that's amazing. And it's why [in part] I find my LS to be quite frustrating. I WANT to keep my LS until it literally blows away in the wind!! lol But I also want it to perform as it SHOULD in the meantime. The only thing that I can think of [that's left to do] is to try something like 'Seafoam'. So I'm going to look into that more seriously. I'm worried about something like 'Seafoam' making things worse and/or damaging one thing or another. [Which is why I haven't used something like that - yet] The fuel injectors have been thoroughly cleaned several times. And the throttle body was cleaned not too long ago. But maybe there is a carbon-deposit problem somewhere.

I just thought of a question:

I've often heard that one can 'blow-out' the engine [of carbon deposits] by merely driving it aggressively for an extended period of time. [is that true?] But are there carbon deposits that - once there - are always there - until you actually get at them to clean them out?! [iF that makes sense] And is that where something like 'Seafoam' comes into the picture?! OR would someone actually have to take the engine apart to thoroughly clean it?!

Take care of yourself,

Craig!! :)

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Hi blake918!! :)

I hope you're OK.

I'm sorry I've been causing you so many sleepless nights!! lol :P

I think the fact that the 1st generation LS's use the OBD 1 diagnostic computer thing has - perhaps - made it more difficult to figure out the 'problem'. The OBD 1 [i hope I'm saying that right] isn't nearly as sensitive as the OBD 2 system that all cars have these days. [since 1994?] Then again - the Lexus 'guys' have often attached computers to it while they test drove it. And nothing ever came back as a 'fault'. But IF it IS just a carbon issue - would any computer pick that up?! I really don't know. For the first 10 years of its life - my LS was driven by a little old lady. I strongly suspect it was rarely - if EVER - driven above 60 km/h. AND probably never got the chance to fully 'warm-up'. The car only had 50,000 miles or so on it when I bought it. That's only 5,000 miles a year. The car also had a battery charger 'thing' on it to keep the battery charged while she went away for several MONTHS during the winter. [The car just sat there] If that leads you to any thoughts - let me know. I'm determined to see to it that you get your rest!! lol

Have a great day!!

Craig!! :)

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Hi Ralph!! :)

I hope you're OK.

I truly appreciate your kind response.

I'm TRYING - I really am - NOT to be so frustrated with my LS. And I have to keep in mind that when I drive at or near the speed limit on the freeway - with some beautiful music [Classical or 'Blues'] playing through that fantastic Nakamichi sound system - I like my LS. And if I drive just like the previous owner [the 'little old lady'] all is well. But if I try to push it - it quickly becomes frustrating. But... you're right. There is a 425 h.p. Chrysler sitting next to it. [Which truly is an unbelievable car - I kid you not] So I have to put things [or keeps things] in perspective. The LS has never failed to start or stop - so that's something!!

Thanks again,

Craig!! :)

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Craig':

The Lexus 'guys' have often attached computers to it while they test drove it. And nothing ever came back as a 'fault'.

Because I've got an OBDII reader and I've driven my '95 while watching the reader, I seriously doubt that "the Lexus guys with attached computers" would turn up much of anything on your GenI with OBDI. I'd be inclined to think that is their way of trying to convince you that they were actually "doing something". My OBDII reader on my '95 will show changing numerical values for "some" different parameters, but it wasn't/isn't the "window into the world of 1UZFE" that I thought it was going to be.

The car also had a battery charger 'thing' on it to keep the battery charged while she went away for several MONTHS during the winter. [The car just sat there]

I'll bet that I already know the answer to this question, but did "anybody" remove the battery cables when they attached the charger for months on end?......

I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving the charger attached to the car (over the winter, I assume) because you never know what is going to happen with utility power during say, a windstorm or lightning storm. I got a call yesterday from one of our customers that services hospitals in the lower mainland. There was a windstorm in Maple Ridge that knocked out power to the hospital. It also damaged some electronics, fortunately, none of our products.

In other words, if the battery cables were left attached, the charger was attached, "granny" headed to Phoenix and there was a windstorm/lightning storm, the engine ECU "could" have taken a hit from power line disturbances (through the charger). If that happened, the ECU would not necessarily have been damaged to the point of failure. Just to the point of being a great big "PITA".

Did anyone think to put "fuel stabilizer" like "Stabil" in the gas before Granny bolted to the airport. If the gas went bad, it would have left deposits/lacquer all throughout the fuel system that probably wouldn't clean itself up through normal use. I don't have a high degree of confidence that something like Berryman's or SeaFoam would clean all of that up (if it was bad enough). Don't get me wrong, I like SeaFoam. I just think there are limits to what you can expect a product to do for you.

I think there is a rational explanation of what is wrong with your vehicle. I think that unfortunately, because you live on the island, you don't have a lot of options to choose from in terms of resources to find the problem and fix it/them.

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Hi CanadaCraig,

You have done most everthing one can do, so maybe like you said, drive it hard on a long trip and maybe it will clean itself out. I have driven mine clear across Canada and every working day, I drive about 12-15 miles to work on the highway, so my car doesn't get a chance to carbon up. Yet, if you shut your car off, when it's hot, it doesn't run on, does it? This would indicate a carbon problem. It's certainly not going to hurt your car to give it a good run anyways. I don't really know what else to suggest at this time. I have heard that Seafoam is ok to use. Maybe try a little at the start, then increase the dosage. Daffy

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I think the fact that the 1st generation LS's use the OBD 1 diagnostic computer thing has - perhaps - made it more difficult to figure out the 'problem'. The OBD 1 [i hope I'm saying that right] isn't nearly as sensitive as the OBD 2 system that all cars have these days. [since 1994?] Then again - the Lexus 'guys' have often attached computers to it while they test drove it. And nothing ever came back as a 'fault'. But IF it IS just a carbon issue - would any computer pick that up?! I really don't know. For the first 10 years of its life - my LS was driven by a little old lady. I strongly suspect it was rarely - if EVER - driven above 60 km/h. AND probably never got the chance to fully 'warm-up'. The car only had 50,000 miles or so on it when I bought it. That's only 5,000 miles a year. The car also had a battery charger 'thing' on it to keep the battery charged while she went away for several MONTHS during the winter. [The car just sat there] If that leads you to any thoughts - let me know. I'm determined to see to it that you get your rest!! lol

Have a great day!!

Craig!! :)

Hey Craig! I hope you are doing well also! What I'm thinking of is a Lexus diagnostics tool and not a regular old OBD scanner. The Lexus scanner goes above and far beyond an OBD reader. They talk about this scanner in the repair manuals, and it looks like it can check almost any of the electronic parts in the car. I guess it seems sorta like Vagcom for VW's.

After seeing the list of replaced parts on your car, I'd say that anything is possible as far as the carbon is concerned. lol It can't hurt to try to blow some of it out! LOL I think checking the computer is a good idea too. What about your exhaust system? Have they ever checked it for plugged cats? Rats/birds/etc. (or you can combine the two and... rat+bird=pigeon) can find little nooks and crannies to nest in cars that we can't even imagine, and a car that was parked for months at a time makes it a prime suspect. I don't know! I'm just taking some wild guesses since your dealer has covered the likely causes already. You just need to bring the car down to Dallas where you have a plethora of Lexus specialists to pick from who would love to solve this weird little puzzle. :D

Blake

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I just thought of something that someone else brought up a while back on another thread that had to do with the valet key being used and the use of that key governing the car down so it would drive docile. I don't know if that even is true or not but just a thought. I have never used my valet key. If it is possible, maybe that program in holding back your car.

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Hi Threadcutter!! :)

Thanks for the ideas!! I never thought about the possibility of an electrical 'surge' possibly effecting the ECU. I think that's very clever. [No kidding] But how does one check that? Hmm... Would it be easy enough to temporarily use a different 1st generation ECU? [from a 1991 LS the dealer has for sale] As for whether or not someone disconnected the battery cables before attaching the charger - I have no idea. Probably not though. Especially if the 'little old lady' did it herself. [Or asked her grandson to do it or whoever]

As for the mechanics attaching a computer to the car - they never really did explain exactly HOW they did that or WHAT they ended up discovering. I was never told of what was RIGHT with the car. And I never did see a list of any of the 'findings'. Hmm....

I also doubt any fuel stabilizer was used. In fact - for the first couple of months of owning my LS - there would often BE a 'bad fuel' smell. The exact same 'varnish' smell my motorcycle had when the fuel in its tank went 'south'!! [Hey - just like the old lady!! lol] It's why I insisted on having the fuel filter changed. Since that time - however - there has never been a repeat of that 'smell'. But like you said [And like I've often suspected] maybe the problem DOES have something to do with 'lacquer coating' throughout the fuel system. The car runs FINE - after all - IF I don't push it hard!! Yet another 'Hmm.....'!!

Thank you very much. You have given me LOTS to think about!!

Craig!! :)

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Hi daffy!! :)

I bet your car never gets COLD!! lol

No.. my car doesn't 'run on' when 'turned off'.

It's an interesting 'puzzle' - that's for sure. I'm thinking maybe Threadcutter is onto something with perhaps BOTH of his ideas. [The ECU being 'zapped' by a power surge and/or the entire fuel system being lacquered up] The next time I see my Lexus 'guy' - I'll ask him about the ECU and 'Seafoam'.

Thanks!!

Craig!! :)

----------------------------------------------

Hi dsmlexus!! :)

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I like your idea - but I don't even have the valet key.

Wouldn't it be GREAT if THAT was the problem!! lol

Craig!! :)

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Hi Threadcutter!! :)

Thanks for the ideas!! I never thought about the possibility of an electrical 'surge' possibly effecting the ECU. I think that's very clever. [No kidding] But how does one check that? Hmm... Would it be easy enough to temporarily use a different 1st generation ECU? [from a 1991 LS the dealer has for sale] As for whether or not someone disconnected the battery cables before attaching the charger - I have no idea. Probably not though. Especially if the 'little old lady' did it herself. [Or asked her grandson to do it or whoever]

As for the mechanics attaching a computer to the car - they never really did explain exactly HOW they did that or WHAT they ended up discovering. I was never told of what was RIGHT with the car. And I never did see a list of any of the 'findings'. Hmm....

I also doubt any fuel stabilizer was used. In fact - for the first couple of months of owning my LS - there would often BE a 'bad fuel' smell. The exact same 'varnish' smell my motorcycle had when the fuel in its tank went 'south'!! [Hey - just like the old lady!! lol] It's why I insisted on having the fuel filter changed. Since that time - however - there has never been a repeat of that 'smell'. But like you said [And like I've often suspected] maybe the problem DOES have something to do with 'lacquer coating' throughout the fuel system. The car runs FINE - after all - IF I don't push it hard!! Yet another 'Hmm.....'!!

Thank you very much. You have given me LOTS to think about!!

atCraig!! :)

Craig:

Unfortunately, I don't know of any Practical way of checking all of the individual components on the ECU. Yes, temporarily swapping it out would probably tell you pretty quickly if the problem has anything to do with the ECU. However, I'd have to assume that would be pretty expensive, wouldn't it? Maybe purchasing a "reman" would be a whole lot less money as opposed to buying one from the dealer. They are NOT going to "give that baby away".....

I'd hate to have you go down that path, having spent LOTS of money on the one from the dealer, only to find out (real quickly, I might add) that the ECU didn't make any difference at all.

The company I work for sells high Horsepower electric/electronic motor controllers. We periodically end up having to deal with damaged products because of power line disturbances. The problem is that as often as not, there has been some damage to our product, but not enough to kill it outright. These are the ones that are a real PITA. After a power line disturbance, it just operates inconsistently, but is nearly impossible to diagnose what exactly is wrong with it down to a component level. As often as not, we just troubleshoot/replace to a major sub assembly level. Usually, it's not cost effective to try and find the exact resistor or capacitor or IC that is damaged.

I'm leaning in the direction of the fuel system. If you smelled bad gas (not sure that's the best way to word that......) way back when, it's entirely possible the problem resides somewhere in your fuel system or injectors. That is certainly the simpler of the two possibilities that I've raised.

Occam's Razor

Have you ever had your injectors cleaned (professionally)? Sorry, I'm wayyyyy toooooo lazy to go back through this thread to try and find that answer. What is the condition of your spark plugs? Do they look like the engine is running rich or lean? When you "punch it", does the car sputter & hesitate? Or does it just take it's sweet time accelerating (if you can call it that) up to speed? Maybe you should have a good Indie with an exhaust gas analyzer take a look at the mixture/ratios from the exhaust gas standpoint. Wouldn't take long or cost a bunch, I wouldn't think.

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I think its time you just get rid of the LS400, its 14 years old and it was owned by somebody else for 11, I think you expect too much from it.
There's nothing wrong with expecting decent fuel mileage out of the car. My '95 still gets great mileage (usually over 26mpg on the hwy), and its got a hell of a lot more miles than Craig's car. I hope he doesn't sell the car until he figures out what is making it so slow; I'll sleep a lot better at night knowing what it was! LOL

I'm willing to bet that most guys would disagree with you. My 1993 LS400 only has 86,000 miles. Lots of parts have already been replaced that have to do with gas mileage and performance. [As you probably know] The idea that I should merely accept how my car performs AND be OK with the gas mileage it's getting because it's a 14 years old car - is an idea that doesn't hold water. [Or at least not nearly as much 'water' as you seem to think it does]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with expecting better mileage or power. All I'm saying is look at all the time, effort, and money Craig has poured into this car. This car obviously has some sort of serious powertrain issue that so far nobody has been able to diagnose for him, who knows why (again, it was owned by somebody else for 11 years, who knows what its been through even with only $86k, maybe its just always been a lemon from the factory).

My point is, you've got to know when to just call it quits. If it doesn't bother him having to constantly be working on this thing then fine, but personally I would have traded the car in on another LS400 a long time ago.

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I'm not saying there's anything wrong with expecting better mileage or power. All I'm saying is look at all the time, effort, and money Craig has poured into this car. This car obviously has some sort of serious powertrain issue that so far nobody has been able to diagnose for him, who knows why (again, it was owned by somebody else for 11 years, who knows what its been through even with only $86k, maybe its just always been a lemon from the factory).

My point is, you've got to know when to just call it quits. If it doesn't bother him having to constantly be working on this thing then fine, but personally I would have traded the car in on another LS400 a long time ago.

That's some connotation for telling someone they expect too much from their car! LOL :D Those are all good points though.

I remember seeing the 0-60 of Craig's car. It sounded and seemed to perform just like a LS should except for it being really slow. It almost seems like there is a governor on it or something. The lemon idea seems quite plausible. An elderly lady would probably never know if her car was taking more time than it should to reach 60mph.

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That's some connotation for telling someone they expect too much from their car! LOL

Expecting and demanding perfect operation from a brand new car is one thing, but one thats 14 years old? THATS my point. Its just not worth the hassle, just buy another one. Seriously, it will cost less to trade it on another 94 LS that operates properly than to keep messing with this. I know it only has 86k miles, but thats meaningless if it doesn't operate in a satisfactory way. Even if another one had 186k, if it drives better he's better off.

Maybe I'm just more pragmatic than other people, that was always my suggestion to people belabored by the DBW hesitation on newer Lexus cars, if you don't like it just get rid of it and buy something you like. Life's too short to spend years moaning about the operation of a thing like a car. Replace it. People who want to sue car companies for stuff like this for instanceI just don't get, I mean do they have nothing else in their lives they'd rather put that energy towards? Remember that guy with the terribly unreliable S500 who was looking for an 05 LS430 but didn't want to trade until he made Mercedes buy it back? I just don't get it...

If you enjoy diagnosing it and getting to the bottom of why its performing this way thats another story...

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Expecting and demanding perfect operation from a brand new car is one thing, but one thats 14 years old? THATS my point. Its just not worth the hassle, just buy another one. Seriously, it will cost less to trade it on another 94 LS that operates properly than to keep messing with this. I know it only has 86k miles, but thats meaningless if it doesn't operate in a satisfactory way. Even if another one had 186k, if it drives better he's better off.

Maybe I'm just more pragmatic than other people, that was always my suggestion to people belabored by the DBW hesitation on newer Lexus cars, if you don't like it just get rid of it and buy something you like. Life's too short to spend years moaning about the operation of a thing like a car. Replace it.

If you enjoy diagnosing it and getting to the bottom of why its performing this way thats another story...

I know what you are saying....you cut off my quote right where I agreed and said that all of your points are very valid. ;) Now that the warranty has expired, I'd entertain the thought of getting rid of it as well...
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Hi Threadcutter!! :)

The Lexus dealer just happens to have a 1991 LS for sale. It has 225,000 kilometres [or so] AND [i'm assuming] an ECU!! It's possible that the dealer would let me use THAT cars ECU to see if THAT is the problem with my car. [i haven't talked to them about any of this yet - but they might be OK with that idea] This is why I was wondering if it would be a big deal to replace the ECU. [Or rather - take mine out - replace it with that 1991's - and then put mine back] OR would that even work?! Are ECU's year specific?! [As you can probably tell - I don't know very much!!]

The fuel injectors have been thoroughly cleaned several times since I've owned the car. And the fuel pump and fuel filter have been replaced with new. And so have all the spark plugs [although I don't know what condition they're in NOW] spark plug wires, rotors and distributors. Even the throttle body was taken off and cleaned. But I'm sure there are many places that deposits could 'hide'. As for the idea of having the exhaust analyzed - that's a good idea.

The puzzling thing about all of this is that my car DOES accelerate very nicely - every now and then. I can't say for sure if it's actually quicker during those 'nice times' - but there is certainly none of the typical [for my car] 'being held back by one thing or another' feeling. I used to think that the brakes were dragging. But they've been checked.

Thanks again,

Craig!! :)

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Hi SW03ES!! :)

I also appreciate what you're saying. But I'm a 'never give up' sort of person. Besides - if I DID get rid of the car - at least before October 14th, 2006 - and bought another old LS400 - I would also given up a rather extensive [and expensive] warranty. Besides - my car as a LOT of new parts. And I found it hard to believe [as I still do] that the 'problem' is UNresolvable. A solution [as I see it] just hasn't been found yet. [i'm the same when it comes to dealing with difficult people in my life]

I certainly don't expect OR demand perfection - from anything. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a car that is ONLY 14 years old to drive as it should. I've owned cars a lot older that had no problems at all. Which brings me to your 'could have been a lemon from day one' idea. THAT - I think - is a possibility. As Blake said - a little old lady isn't likely to complain about a slower-than-it-should-be LS. And to be very honest - I wouldn't have noticed either - IF the car didn't - on occasion - accelerate NICELY!! [Or at least 'smoothly']

But that doesn't mean I haven't seriously considered getting rid of the LS. I've thought of that a lot. But for what?! The 1st generation LS is one of my dream cars. And the one I've got is in great condition - inside and out. In fact - I've never seen a better one. But it's not worth much. And do I really want to buy some other guys 'problems'? Don't forget - my LS drove VERY nicely [and still does - if you don't ask too much of it] on the test drive. At least I KNOW what's been done to my car. The plan is - therefore - to just keep it. Even if it never gets any better - at least it's fine for around town. I'll just drive like a little old lady until it gets fixed.

Craig!! :)

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I know what you are saying....you cut off my quote right where I agreed and said that all of your points are very valid. ;)

Well my points being valid needed no clarification ;) :cheers: LOL

Craig,

14 years old is old for a car, even a modern car, especially one you haven't owned and cared for since new yourself. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what the car has been through for the first 11 years of its life. It may have sat for long periods of time, it may have had poor or incorrect gas, improper oil used at some point in its life, it may have overheated due to neglect of the cooling system. All of these potential pitfalls could cause damage to the lining of the cylinder wall that you wouldn't be able to see without totally tearing down the engine and looking at it part by part. Or like I said, the motor may just be a fluke.

If it doesn't cause you hardships to continue worrying about this then by all means keep it, but I'd be very surprised at this point if you ever were able to get it running the way you want it to.

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