Nav Override

[jeffsstuff]

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Actually, in my case, Lexus just called to offer me a $500 service credit to help my satisfaction. So yes, fuming really does help. Of course, what I really want is a car company to make a car to fill its customers needs, not what they want us to have.

[es350lexus]

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Actually, in my case, Lexus just called to offer me a $500 service credit to help my satisfaction. So yes, fuming really does help. Of course, what I really want is a car company to make a car to fill its customers needs, not what they want us to have.

I agree 100% Consumers should get what they want and paid for, not what a company's wants to provide.

[SW03ES]

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.

2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.

3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.

4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.

5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

Lexus is not the only carmaker that has this restriction, in fact I can only think of two that don't...maybe 3. BMW, Mercedes, and Acura. Everybody else locks you out.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Don't get mad at me, I didn't design the car. My opinion however is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as you are yours.

Anyways its a moot issue, Lexus has been selling this nav system since 1998 with the same lockouts, and most other manufacturers lock the system out in the same way. They're not going to change.

All I can say is I use the system daily, I drive 2k miles a month and I've had the car over 4 years and SOMEHOW I've survived only programming destinations when stopped.

[GMoney749]

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

I disagree. I think it's self-centered attitudes like YOURS that hurt everyone. All this drama because you have to pull over to program the navigation system??? I bet you're that same jerkoff that runs a red light and cuts me off because he's in such a hurry to get everywhere. This is my THIRD vehicle with a Nav system and they have ALL had lockouts while driving. And somehow I've managed to use it without my head exploding. Rather than starting a riot, maybe you should start your own car company since you know more about satisfying customers than the largest car manufacturer on the planet. I'm going to go to your blog and pee on it.

If this feature is critical to your satisfaction and you managed to get through the entire process of purchasing a car without even checking to make sure it worked to your liking, that's YOUR fault, not Lexus'. Period. The fact that they gave you some cash hoping to shut you up is irrelevant.

But this is, of course, just my opinion. :whistles:

[amf1932]

I disagree. I think it's self-centered attitudes like YOURS that hurt everyone. All this drama because you have to pull over to program the navigation system??? I bet you're that same jerkoff that runs a red light and cuts me off because he's in such a hurry to get everywhere. This is my THIRD vehicle with a Nav system and they have ALL had lockouts while driving. And somehow I've managed to use it without my head exploding. Rather than starting a riot, maybe you should start your own car company since you know more about satisfying customers than the largest car manufacturer on the planet. I'm going to go to your blog and pee on it.

If this feature is critical to your satisfaction and you managed to get through the entire process of purchasing a car without even checking to make sure it worked to your liking, that's YOUR fault, not Lexus'. Period. The fact that they gave you some cash hoping to shut you up is irrelevant.

But this is, of course, just my opinion. :whistles:

Very well said......I agree with your opinion, completely!

[mehullica]

I'm sure all the starving/homeless children across the world are upset that people can't input destinations while driving. What a horrible thing! Boohoo. :cries:

[jeffsstuff]

I disagree. I think it's self-centered attitudes like YOURS that hurt everyone. All this drama because you have to pull over to program the navigation system??? I bet you're that same jerkoff that runs a red light and cuts me off because he's in such a hurry to get everywhere. This is my THIRD vehicle with a Nav system and they have ALL had lockouts while driving. And somehow I've managed to use it without my head exploding. Rather than starting a riot, maybe you should start your own car company since you know more about satisfying customers than the largest car manufacturer on the planet. I'm going to go to your blog and pee on it.

If this feature is critical to your satisfaction and you managed to get through the entire process of purchasing a car without even checking to make sure it worked to your liking, that's YOUR fault, not Lexus'. Period. The fact that they gave you some cash hoping to shut you up is irrelevant.

But this is, of course, just my opinion. :whistles:

Very well said......I agree with your opinion, completely!

First of all, I never run red lights or cut people off. I am curteous. Of course, you don't sound that way judging from your tone.

Lexus just sent me a $500 service credit for the nav system issue. I guess I'm not the first one who thinks this is significant.

If you don't mind the limitation, thats your business. I mind it.

As to how much research I did, when on a test drive, they had me use the system. They showed me all the features and then we left. They never explained that all those features fail to operate once the car begins to move!

Finally, pulling off the road is more dangerous than having MY PASSENGER input a destination.

The bottom line is, the car company isn't responsible for my safe use of the vehicle. I am! Let me use the car. As I have said before, I can drive the car 100+ MPH. They don't bother to limit that, even though it isn't legal to do so. Yet they limit my use of a system when there are no laws restricting it.

[jeffsstuff]

Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.

The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

I complained to Lexus about it. They mailed me a $500 service credit because of my lack of satisfaction. They did not fix the problem nor did they apologize for it.

Unless it is fixed, I will never purchase another vehicle from Lexus/Toyota again. Its as simple as that.

Still, if you have the same issue, call Lexus customer service and complain to them. Let them know that you too want compensation for this problem.

If enough of us do it, perhaps they will decide it cheaper to allow us to use our cars the way we want.

[jeffsstuff]

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.

2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.

3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.

4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.

5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

Lexus is not the only carmaker that has this restriction, in fact I can only think of two that don't...maybe 3. BMW, Mercedes, and Acura. Everybody else locks you out.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.

If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).

Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)

Lexus, give us what we paid for.

Don't get mad at me, I didn't design the car. My opinion however is my opinion and I'm as entitled to it as you are yours.

Anyways its a moot issue, Lexus has been selling this nav system since 1998 with the same lockouts, and most other manufacturers lock the system out in the same way. They're not going to change.

All I can say is I use the system daily, I drive 2k miles a month and I've had the car over 4 years and SOMEHOW I've survived only programming destinations when stopped.

Thanks for the info. It seems clear that my next vehicle will be one of the ones you mentioned (BMW, Acura or Mercedes). My wife is looking to get a new car next year. I guess we know where to look now.

As to your opinion, I agree, you are entitled to it. I just object to people telling me that I shouldn't want this feature. The dealer did not disclose the limitation before the sale (they set it up before you go, showing all the features. They never mention that none of it works when driving). My Garmin Nuvi ($500) doesn't stop me from using it. I certainly prefer it to the crippled system that Lexus sold me.

The bottom line is, why should Lexus tell me how to use MY CAR? They don't do anything to keep me from driving 100+ MPH down the road. That by the way is illegal in the US. Still, they feel the need to restrict what my passengers do while I drive. It's my responsibility to drive the car safely.

[SW03ES]

IUnless it is fixed, I will never purchase another vehicle from Lexus/Toyota again. Its as simple as that.

Do you promise you'll post on one of their forums too?

I love this LOL, why would we give a crap what you buy next time? Get over yourself.

[thrang]

I'm sure all the starving/homeless children across the world are upset that people can't input destinations while driving. What a horrible thing! Boohoo.:cries:

So why did you buy a Lexus then? Just donate all that money to Sally Struthers....

So anytime you think you are wronged, you shouldn't say ANYTHING because there are less fortunate people in the world. Moronic....

[SW03ES]

You haven't been wronged LOL. They've been making this system for a decade, and most other manufacturers have the same lockout! What drama queens...

Do some reasearch before you spend $45,000 next time.

[GMoney749]

First of all, I never run red lights or cut people off. I am curteous. Of course, you don't sound that way judging from your tone.

Lexus just sent me a $500 service credit for the nav system issue. I guess I'm not the first one who thinks this is significant.

If you don't mind the limitation, thats your business. I mind it.

As to how much research I did, when on a test drive, they had me use the system. They showed me all the features and then we left. They never explained that all those features fail to operate once the car begins to move!

Finally, pulling off the road is more dangerous than having MY PASSENGER input a destination.

The bottom line is, the car company isn't responsible for my safe use of the vehicle. I am! Let me use the car. As I have said before, I can drive the car 100+ MPH. They don't bother to limit that, even though it isn't legal to do so. Yet they limit my use of a system when there are no laws restricting it.

Not responsible for your safe use?? Since we know research isn't your thing, I'm sure you haven't checked into how often your typical auto manufacturer gets sued because some clown kills or serioulsy injures themselves while doing something they shouldn't have been doing in a car.

Lexus isn't going to get sued (not successfully, anyway) if you kill yourself driving 100+ MPH, but let some dumba$$ get in a wreck while he's fooling around with the Nav system (yeah, that system he says is only going to be programmed by his passenger) and the next thing you know they're in court paying out the !Removed! for somebody else's stupidity. Your Garmin that you keep mentioning is self-installed, so you're gonna have a hard time suing anybody when you hurt yourself while "your passenger" is using it. I guarantee you that if YOU volunteer to personally take on financial responsibility for all navigation system related lawsuits they'll change that "critical" feature for you in a heartbeat. [sound of crickets chirping] Yeah, that's what I thought.

THAT'S the bottom line, and if you could see further than the end of your nose you'd understand that.

Oh, and if you CHOOSE to pull your car off the road into an unsafe area to program your system, that's your fault too. And do you really ONLY figure out you need directions to get where you're going AFTER the car is in motion?

You don't like my tone, I don't like your constant whining. There's no reason Lexus should only get YOUR opinon, I think I'll write them a letter myself.

[Doug Bates]

You haven't been wronged LOL. They've been making this system for a decade, and most other manufacturers have the same lockout! What drama queens...

Do some reasearch before you spend $45,000 next time.

Well, I fall into the camp that is unhappy with the lack of an override. I DID do my homework on the Nav before I bought in October 2006 and was told the Override was still in existence. There are a lot of Lexus customers who were not told of the change- see for yourself by the comments at www.LexusOverride.com/comments.php .

Also, the other luxury manufacturers do not limit use of the Nav or the Bluetooth phone system like Lexus does.

The point of my complaint is twofold:

1. The change in the operation of the vehicle was not disclosed by Lexus or it's employees prior to purchase, and

2. Decisions about the operation of the vehicle should be made by the owner, not the manufacturer.

[amf1932]

2. Decisions about the operation of the vehicle should be made by the owner, not the manufacturer.

I would change that to: SOME decisions about the operation of the vehicle should be made by the owner, not the manufacturer.

[SW03ES]

1. The change in the operation of the vehicle was not disclosed by Lexus or it's employees prior to purchase, and

The override was never intended for the use of the driving public, its a hack that comes about when drivers enter the subsystem menu of the navigation system designed only for dealer maintenance. Its not something disclosed in the manual, its not a "feature". Why should they alert you or anyone else to a change in their navigation menu designed for dealer maintenance?

Also, the other luxury manufacturers do not limit use of the Nav or the Bluetooth phone system like Lexus does.

Yes, they do. Not all of them, but many. I believe Acura and Mercedes are the only two that don't limit the use of those functions.

[Elan]

Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.

The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

I didn't become aware of the Nav lockout feature until after I bought my ES350. I just knew that with Lexus's reputation that nothing on the car could be as disappointing as the Nav system. I have a Magellen 760 NAV system that is superior to anything I've seen except for its 3.5 " screen. I have found myself using it in my Lexus more and more. It has "speech to text" and waypoints list for three users. It isn't voice activated but the Lexus voice activation doesn't work well enough to bother with. I'm thinking of getting a Megellen 4040 (4" screen) for permanent use in my car as my wife uses the 760 in her BMW.

[ZeeD]

Yes, they do. Not all of them, but many. I believe Acura and Mercedes are the only two that don't limit the use of those functions.

No they don't.... Add to that Audi, Volkswagen, BMW, Land Rover, Cadillac, Infiniti, Hyundai?

I live in Dubai, United Arab Emirates and lexus is the only one compared to the ones who i mentioned who limits your use of the system.... Seriously i don't get this? the germans have a much more compliicated system in terms of navigation and how easy it is to type your destination, but you dont see them getting sued!

Really i find it stupid that i have to press the damn " I agree" everytime i get in the car?

[SW03ES]

No they don't.... Add to that Audi, Volkswagen, BMW, Land Rover, Cadillac, Infiniti, Hyundai?

I live in Dubai, United Arab Emirates and lexus is the only one compared to the ones who i mentioned who limits your use of the system.... Seriously i don't get this? the germans have a much more compliicated system in terms of navigation and how easy it is to type your destination, but you dont see them getting sued!

Really i find it stupid that i have to press the damn " I agree" everytime i get in the car?

I know for a fact Infiniti blocks out their system, and Hyundai doesn't have a nav system. I believe I remember it being locked out in the Audis and Cadillacs I've driven too. It may be different in the UAE.

The "I agree" button is gone in the '08s.

[ZeeD]

The "I agree" button is gone in the '08s.

My car is an 08 and no the "I agree" button is still there :S :S......

Another thing that i don't get is how the Specs in the U.S. are diffrent on minor issues than the specs in the Arab Gulf, such as the " I agree" is still living large over here and the side view mirros have not been changed as the cars in the U.S....

O well! No biggie !

BUT take it from the cars i mentioned do not block out the navigation, because my family has a VW, Mercedes and an Audi and i know people who have BMW's, cadillacs and Inifinitis and land rovers.

It's foolish the lexus system!

[Rickanns]

The "I Agree" on my 08 ES clears itself after a few seconds. This must cover the manufacturer's backside and I think it is a good deal. On my 2007 VW Touareg, the agree screen does not clear and you have to agree everytime you start the vehicle in order for the Nav and Audio screens to function. You can update the Nav functions on the fly even though you will get another Warning screen when you do.

Many VW owners have purchased software for their PC's which allows them full access to the vehicle programming and settings in many areas. They can disable the Agree screens completely, re-configure headlight settings, turn off DRL's, modify the number of turn signal flashes when lightly activating the stalk (Lexus doesn't do this?), run complete diagnostics of systems and error codes, turn off seat belt chimes and other warnings, and see and/or alter other functions of the vehicle. I am a little surprised that I have not read of any Lexus owners doing these kinds of things, but perhaps the software packages are not available for a Lexus. I have no interest in that technical capability, but I am sure there are many Lexus owners that are or would be interested.

I haven't played with the Lexus Nav much, but it is my understanding that you can change destinations, etc. on the fly through the voice activation processes. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have noticed one possible annoyance of the Nav (again, I have not played with it much). When I put in my home address (9709) the system direct me to my house. But, when sitting in my driveway, the cursor is further south on the map and not sitting on the destination icon. My position is related at house number 9773 which is non existent??? I will check the system out next week when we go to Dallas for Thanksgiving. Has anyone else noticed this foible?

Rick

[nyuhsuk]

I have noticed one possible annoyance of the Nav (again, I have not played with it much). When I put in my home address (9709) the system direct me to my house. But, when sitting in my driveway, the cursor is further south on the map and not sitting on the destination icon. My position is related at house number 9773 which is non existent??? I will check the system out next week when we go to Dallas for Thanksgiving. Has anyone else noticed this foible?

As with most other GPS and mapping systems, the pinpointing of the address is always an approximate location, interpolated along the road using the max addresses on the road and the road's actual length. My ES manual explains it as pulling you close enough so that you can then start looking for parking. i.e. Google maps even puts my place about 2 or 3 doors down from where it actually is. I always wondered if it did that for security purposes but it's most likely a information database constraint where actually mapping out every numbered location in the nation to the dot would be infeasible.

[SW03ES]

BUT take it from the cars i mentioned do not block out the navigation, because my family has a VW, Mercedes and an Audi and i know people who have BMW's, cadillacs and Inifinitis and land rovers.

I extensively test drove the Infiniti M and FX. Infiniti absolutely locks out destination functions when moving and this is confirmed by posts on Infiniti forums

Nav destination functions are absolutely 100% locked out when driving on all GM vehicles including Cadillacs, confirmed on GM forums

Jeep also has the lockout as do all other Chrysler vehicles, confirmed on Chrysler forums

Subaru also (Wikipedia for whatever thats worth)

Just google it to find out, thats what I just did. It is absolutely not only Toyota.

[Rickanns]

I have noticed one possible annoyance of the Nav (again, I have not played with it much). When I put in my home address (9709) the system direct me to my house. But, when sitting in my driveway, the cursor is further south on the map and not sitting on the destination icon. My position is related at house number 9773 which is non existent??? I will check the system out next week when we go to Dallas for Thanksgiving. Has anyone else noticed this foible?

As with most other GPS and mapping systems, the pinpointing of the address is always an approximate location, interpolated along the road using the max addresses on the road and the road's actual length. My ES manual explains it as pulling you close enough so that you can then start looking for parking. i.e. Google maps even puts my place about 2 or 3 doors down from where it actually is. I always wondered if it did that for security purposes but it's most likely a information database constraint where actually mapping out every numbered location in the nation to the dot would be infeasible.

I was intrigued by this answer and decided to check things a little further. I really think the Nav is off in the Lexus. I parked the Lexus side by side with my VW Touareg (with Nav) in my driveway as well as breaking out my Magellan handheld GPS. The Lat/Long coordinates relate as follows:

Lexus N33 30 21 W101 53 42

VW N33 30 36 W101 53 71

Mag. N33 30 363 W101 53 711

As you can see, the VW and the Magellan agree perfectly with the Magellan carrying the seconds to 3 digits, but the Lexus is off???

Does the Lexus have any calibration adjustment parameters in a situation like this?

We did notice in our test drive of another ES350 that when approaching an intersection where we were turning, the Nav did NOT give us a turn command for the actual right turn. If the Nav is off in its calibration, then maybe we had not gotten to the point that a command would have been activated?

I will ask the dealer about this at the 1000 mile check-up, but am interested in what you folks think.

Rck

[detaildoc]

You haven't been wronged LOL. They've been making this system for a decade, and most other manufacturers have the same lockout! What drama queens...

Do some reasearch before you spend $45,000 next time.

Ok, so can the lockout feature be a bit of an inconvenience at times? Yes, I would agree, but it is not always. I completely agree with you SW03ES. All of these people complaining about the lockout with such over the top, disproportionate levels of anger is just absurd. You are all behaving as if the navigation is the feature in the vehicle that is responsible for the entire cost of the vehicle. Come on people, the nav system is not what makes the entire car; it is only one aspect, one feature of the car. Personally, I think there are so many other excellent qualities and features in this vehicle and even in the navigation system itself, that a simple lockout feature does not kill the entire car. Come on, one member in here actually posted "Unless it is fixed, I will never purchase another vehicle from Lexus/Toyota again. It is as simple as that." COME ON, THAT IS DRAMA PEOPLE, DRAMA. Someone please get past their own narcissism and their narcissistic injury and explain to me why it is such a bad and terrible thing that a conscientious car company is doing something as simple as this lockout to potentially save if at least one life by reducing the chance of a collision due to distraction. Get past this small insignificant issue, all you poor middle and upper class Lexus owners and enjoy your vehicle.