Drove An Infiniti M35

[SW03ES]

they certainly try to make some cars more sport oriented...but they always seem to disapoint the car mags and the testers. More power doesnt always mean more sporty. Lexus so far does own the mercs and bmws on cost and what they price will bring to the table as for as HP wise, but the reality is that lexus doesnt put much thought into driving dynamics, weight distribution, and handling like bmw.

I don't think Lexus will ever win over the car mags, they're so up the behind of the germans they wouldn't say they prefer a Lexus if it was god's gift to a road course. Its always "not quite as good". Oh well, the American purchaser has chosen what they prefer.

Again, have you driven an IS350? nearly perfect weight distribution. Same with the new GS, and its even vastly improved for a FWD car in the ES350. They may not have put a lot of thought into the dynamics in the past, but they are now.

The sound system isn't that good though, compared to the Rx300. I'd have to say the Rx300's sound is better than the Ls as well! Just my opinion.

Do you have ML in your RX? I thought the base sound on the ES350 was better than the sound on my ML ES300. Did you tune the stereo in the 350 you had? I've never heard the sound in an RX300, at least not that I remember.

As for the LS, you're crazy LOL. The LS ML system is teriffic, MAYBE the old Nakamichi systems are slightly better, but teriffic nonetheless.

the is350, GS350, or ES350 come nothing close to the M or AMG

IS350 0-60 time- ~6 seconds

~60<M3 or AM

Nor do the ES350, IS350, or GS350 cost anywhere near what an AMG Benz or an M series BMW does.

Wait and see, Lexus has plans in the works.

I think what you're missing is the Japanese don't like niche marketing. The AMG and M divisions are niche divisions, meaning they appeal to a very small section of buyers. Its against the Japanese business model to niche market because the niche divisions are never going to be profitable.

I'd venture to say BMW and Mercedes LOSE money on M and AMG.

Thats why you don't see divisions like that from Lexus.

When you compare the performance per dollar of the IS350, the ES350, and the GS350 compared to their competiton (the 330i, the 530i, and the E350) theres no question the Lexus' perform as good or better, for less.

[anthonyiez]

I haven't driven the Infiniti, but i have the Es350. To be honest i don't like it I had it this week as a loaner and was glad to give it back. The only things i actually liked about it was the power and the headlights' wide viewing area (compared to the rx300)...

I don't know where Lexus is going where their new models, but i don't like it!

LexKid630, I agree with you on the new models that lexus has. In my opinion they are losing there independant "LOOK" and becoming more like middle of the road styling. Lexus, Nissan, BMW, Even Huyundia are all sharing in a similar "LOOK" Not for me.:whistles:

Although I wouldn't kick any one of them out of my driveway.

that's what continous wind tunnel testing will give us...a bunch of cars across the board that all look alike :(

[SW03ES]

But that are quiet & efficient...

[nc211]

There is definelty something to be said for both statements, that's for sure. The cars do tend to look alike, yet are much quieter, effecient and smoother because of it. I think one of the reasons I like the Gen 2 LS400's is because they just look more "block-ish" and less "sleekish". I like the blockish look myself. That's also why my all-time favorite SUV is the mid to late 90's Tahoes. Clean, sharp angles, not folded back and wrapped around. But, go take a cruise on the highway in a Land Rover Discovery, and you'll be screaming at everyone around you for the next two days, until your hearing comes back.

[dcfish]

There is definelty something to be said for both statements, that's for sure. The cars do tend to look alike, yet are much quieter, effecient and smoother because of it. I think one of the reasons I like the Gen 2 LS400's is because they just look more "block-ish" and less "sleekish". I like the blockish look myself. That's also why my all-time favorite SUV is the mid to late 90's Tahoes. Clean, sharp angles, not folded back and wrapped around. But, go take a cruise on the highway in a Land Rover Discovery, and you'll be screaming at everyone around you for the next two days, until your hearing comes back.

nc211, The styling per air tunnel results don't add up on the real road, Then we would be talking tires/suspension and the like. If lexus vehicles were meant to fly then the tunnel results would be warranted. I understand about wind noise etc... but that is what soundproofing is for. When was the last time you heard a wind whistle on a toyota/lexus ? That is with a straight on wind, Not a side wind. And at what speed ?

[anthonyiez]

i'm not talking about wind noise, i'm talking about drag coefficients for better gas mileage.

[dcfish]

i'm not talking about wind noise, i'm talking about drag coefficients for better gas mileage.

drag coefficients don't make that much difference at posted speeds in the USA, It isn't like you gain 2-4 mpg from one model year to the next. Like I stated, If they flew that would be different. But they don't. Besides all cars would look like bullets if that was the concern...............

[SW03ES]

I understand about wind noise etc... but that is what soundproofing is for. When was the last time you heard a wind whistle on a toyota/lexus ? That is with a straight on wind, Not a side wind. And at what speed ?

The precise reason you hear no wind whistle is because of extensive wind tunnel testing. Soundproofing helps with road and engine noise, but not with wind noise. The only way to fix that is with wind tunnel testing.

As for when the last time I heard a wind whistle on a Toyota/Lexus, just today. The aero testing for wind noise is not nearly as extensive on the Prius as it is on my Lexus. The Prius has moderate wind noise at speed around the side mirrors.

As for aerodynamics not having an effect on efficiency, I think you should talk to some engineers. Why do you think an RX has lower fuel economy than an ES or a GS? Weight isn't much different, the powertrain is ther same as the ES.

Why go to all the work to make the Prius as aerodynamic as possible? Why bother? Check out the Prius boards and see the gas mileage decreases they get when they add roof racks. It makes a big difference.

[indiasfinest]

yea aerodynamics are a huge factor in gas mileage, when they were making the bugatti veyron, (i forgot how to spell it), the mirrors were creating too much drag or not enough downforce (it was an old article over a year ago srry i cant remember correctly)

[LinuxBoston]

I recently purchased and ES 350. I had a 1999 Infiniti I30 that I loved with 150,000 miles and serviced by the dealer. I went to the Infiniti dealer, the first time they did not have a salesman available. Went back the next day specifically to look at the G35 and M35. Not only was I not treated well, they insulted me with what they would give me on a trade. The previous day I looked at Lexus and Acura. We returned to the Lexus dealer. While they were crowded (a real zoo on Saturday), I had no problem getting a salesman. I drove the ES350 as well as a GS430H with 5000 miles. At the Infiniti dealer, I drove both the G35x and the M35. I was very disappointed with the M35. The bottom line is that the Lexus dealer gave me 25% more for my I30, and also came down on the top end of the 350. After a few weeks, I am very happy with the ES350. Got my wife a GS350 (she had a Subaru, and wants AWD for the snow).

[SW03ES]

No question Lexus has better dealers.