And The Hits Keep Coming

[dcfish]

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pu...geo4&src=ap

Comments anyone ?

[Rx330driver]

all i have to say is...

didnt anybody see this coming at Ford or General Motors?

Im not trying to sound all pro foreign cars but common. THey make better cars period, end of story. Better fuel economy, better styling, better value, well maybe not that last one and better reliability, and lets not leave out better prestige in name. I saw an article two weeks ago saying that the 10 cars that poluted the air the worst are all american...

All of these downers arent going to fuel people into buying their ugly cars.

[dcfish]

all i have to say is...

didnt anybody see this coming at Ford or General Motors?

Im not trying to sound all pro foreign cars but common. THey make better cars period, end of story. Better fuel economy, better styling, better value, well maybe not that last one and better reliability, and lets not leave out better prestige in name. I saw an article two weeks ago saying that the 10 cars that poluted the air the worst are all american...

All of these downers arent going to fuel people into buying their ugly cars.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pu...uso0&src=ap

[ArmyofOne]

all i have to say is...

didnt anybody see this coming at Ford or General Motors?

Im not trying to sound all pro foreign cars but common. THey make better cars period, end of story. Better fuel economy, better styling, better value, well maybe not that last one and better reliability, and lets not leave out better prestige in name. I saw an article two weeks ago saying that the 10 cars that poluted the air the worst are all american...

All of these downers arent going to fuel people into buying their ugly cars.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pu...uso0&src=ap

I really dont have a problem with my american car. i personally like the styling of my car over amost anything else on the road in its clas, but thats why i bought it. i wont argue that a toyota celica is built better, but i like the way mine looks better.

you would have a hard time seeling me on the my car is worse than yours because mine is a ford ZX2 and yours is a Nissan Sentra SE-R. I got REALLY good mileage all on my vacation (cosidering my mods, compression ratio, 7500RPM redline from upgraded engine internals) and i still topped 350-400 miles on a tank of gas (10 gallons for me). meghans car gets significantly worse mileage, quite honestly im unimpressed with it in that dept, it hasnt gotten over 27mpg since we got it, and its a 1.8L I4, smaller than the I4 in my car. but its heavier, and auto tranny and 4wd, so i let it slide.

bottom line is, i have had really good american cars (95 ford contour, 384,990 miles and only a clutch replaced at 270K) and i have had really good imports, (the 05 matrix for example).

SO...in the end, it comes down to you like and prefer. Im a firm believer that 95% of the time, if you maintain it and dont beat it into the ground, ANY car can be a reliable appliance for many years/hundreds of thousands of miles and be relatively trouble free. the other 5% of the time, whether chevy or toyota, the car was built on a friday and is a piece of *BLEEP* in the automotive world. trust me, my uncles 97 camry is a perfect exapmle, always well maintained, and only has 55,000 miles on it, cause its in the damned shop more than on the road.

[dcfish]

all i have to say is...

didnt anybody see this coming at Ford or General Motors?

Im not trying to sound all pro foreign cars but common. THey make better cars period, end of story. Better fuel economy, better styling, better value, well maybe not that last one and better reliability, and lets not leave out better prestige in name. I saw an article two weeks ago saying that the 10 cars that poluted the air the worst are all american...

All of these downers arent going to fuel people into buying their ugly cars.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pu...uso0&src=ap

I really dont have a problem with my american car. i personally like the styling of my car over amost anything else on the road in its clas, but thats why i bought it. i wont argue that a toyota celica is built better, but i like the way mine looks better.

you would have a hard time seeling me on the my car is worse than yours because mine is a ford ZX2 and yours is a Nissan Sentra SE-R. I got REALLY good mileage all on my vacation (cosidering my mods, compression ratio, 7500RPM redline from upgraded engine internals) and i still topped 350-400 miles on a tank of gas (10 gallons for me). meghans car gets significantly worse mileage, quite honestly im unimpressed with it in that dept, it hasnt gotten over 27mpg since we got it, and its a 1.8L I4, smaller than the I4 in my car. but its heavier, and auto tranny and 4wd, so i let it slide.

bottom line is, i have had really good american cars (95 ford contour, 384,990 miles and only a clutch replaced at 270K) and i have had really good imports, (the 05 matrix for example).

SO...in the end, it comes down to you like and prefer. Im a firm believer that 95% of the time, if you maintain it and dont beat it into the ground, ANY car can be a reliable appliance for many years/hundreds of thousands of miles and be relatively trouble free. the other 5% of the time, whether chevy or toyota, the car was built on a friday and is a piece of *BLEEP* in the automotive world. trust me, my uncles 97 camry is a perfect exapmle, always well maintained, and only has 55,000 miles on it, cause its in the damned shop more than on the road.

Considering the fact that model t's are still intact and running today your point is valid. Personally I would never own anything except a toyota product. And I have owned a few chevy's and fords pontiacs ( the list goes on ) when I was young and didn't care what I was driving as long as it got me from point a to b. Automobiles have come a long way but toyota products are ahead of the rest...........

[nc211]

The one thing to watch out for on American cars, is the philosophy that when you're on the bottom, there is only way to go. If I were an investor in the automotive world, I would be hard pressed to not buy shares of GM, Ford and Chrystler. They've been around long enough to ease any concern I would have of bankruptcy and elimination. I bet we'll see some pretty neat cars from these guys soon, and I bet the platforms, reliability and overall quality will be pretty top notch. The numbers tell the tale of the market's appetite, and the market it not hungry for junk food. I have a feeling the American boys will find the dislikes of the Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, etc... and exploit them for their gain, all the while uping their quality in the process. Interesting times, that's for sure. Toyota just took the #1 spot. The thing about being #1, is #2,3,4,5,6,etc... are gunning for you. Getting it and keeping it are two entirely different things. But as it stands now, in my honest opinion, Toyota has earned #1, they deserve #1 and I bet they'll keep #1 for quite a long time. People just don't have the money, or the patients to deal with the American "bugs" in their cars. Gas is too expensive to worry about other problems of a car. Plus, you can't really compare the feel, operation, ease of use and overall quality feel of Camry to a Cavalier type.

But my money is on the American boys to come back to the show, with some very strong offerings. They're already working on it by stripping down their production philosophies to the bare bones, going back to the drawing board. Just depends if they can convince a new generation that they've really made the change, or just put more lipstick on the pig.

[dcfish]

The one thing to watch out for on American cars, is the philosophy that when you're on the bottom, there is only way to go. If I were an investor in the automotive world, I would be hard pressed to not buy shares of GM, Ford and Chrystler. They've been around long enough to ease any concern I would have of bankruptcy and elimination. I bet we'll see some pretty neat cars from these guys soon, and I bet the platforms, reliability and overall quality will be pretty top notch. The numbers tell the tale of the market's appetite, and the market it not hungry for junk food. I have a feeling the American boys will find the dislikes of the Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, etc... and exploit them for their gain, all the while uping their quality in the process. Interesting times, that's for sure. Toyota just took the #1 spot. The thing about being #1, is #2,3,4,5,6,etc... are gunning for you. Getting it and keeping it are two entirely different things. But as it stands now, in my honest opinion, Toyota has earned #1, they deserve #1 and I bet they'll keep #1 for quite a long time. People just don't have the money, or the patients to deal with the American "bugs" in their cars. Gas is too expensive to worry about other problems of a car. Plus, you can't really compare the feel, operation, ease of use and overall quality feel of Camry to a Cavalier type.

But my money is on the American boys to come back to the show, with some very strong offerings. They're already working on it by stripping down their production philosophies to the bare bones, going back to the drawing board. Just depends if they can convince a new generation that they've really made the change, or just put more lipstick on the pig.

Agreeable comments Amigo, What is your take on the folks that say I'll only buy american no matter what ? Do you think standing by american made will be fruitful ?

[nc211]

Agreeable comments Amigo, What is your take on the folks that say I'll only buy american no matter what ? Do you think standing by american made will be fruitful ?

I think you get what you pay for, and to each is his own. I think buying an American car "the general mix, not corvette's and such" right now means one big, nasty, ugly wack of depreciation the second you sign the sales contract. America's true strength in the automotovie world has been in the SUV and truck markets. Too bad $3 bucks a gallon doesn't sit well when you're pulling down 10 mpg. Funny how just a few years ago you had to wait for your Tahoe to show up at the dealership, now, you can have it delivered to your house w/n 45 minutes.

Historically in my opinion, it's been known as:

Japonesse cars = percise construction, extreme dependibility, but buzzy, cramped and sub average mpg "V6's."

German cars = Over engineered, but when they're right, man are they right! Tight, fast, percise and quite comfortable in a firm way. But tempermental beyond tolerance for the average consumer. Glitched beyond reason for some models. The Germans engineered their tanks in WWII so well, that a few grains of sand would lock up their engines. Some say it's still that way..

American Cars = Quality driven by the EPS "earnings per share" of stock only. Basic plastics, rude and basic elements of components "ie, brakes on chevy trucks", but you could toss a gernade in the engine bay of the 5.7 350, and still make it across Kansas. True, you won't have lights, power steering, or anything like that, but you'll limp across the finish line and still have enough power to do a few burn-outs.

In today's global economy, as long as it's not a N. Korean made automobile, you're pretty much standing by American whenever you buy a car in general. American workers in Tenn building Nissans, Layfayette Indiana for Subarus, etc.... Our problem isn't the workers building the cars, our problem is the management and engineers who tell the workers what to build. That's where the American's have fallen behind. We can build anything, better than anyone. We just need to design it to compete with the others. I hate to say it, but to me, I think the management of the big 3 are just now coming out of the hangover stage of the IPO crash of 2000.. Two hours late and two buck shy of a happymeal.

[blake918]

This is all really simple to me. In general, it all comes down to the price of gas, and it has little or nothing to do with quality. Toyota/Honda builds more tiny tin can cars that get 30+mpg than Ford, Chevy, and Dodge do, so their sales will be higher until gas comes down.

I looked at the Yaris the other day, and I was shocked at what a POS it is for the $14k sticker it had (you can get a more well built Corolla for a little more.). I'm all for getting 30+ mpg, but could you imagine getting in an accident with say a Chevy Suburban--let's see 3 tons against 1.1 tons....ouch!!! I'm glad that my LS and Buick have substancial weight and mass behind them should something bad happen!

Rob, those Tahoes aren't selling slowly at all--sales are up 27% from this point last year, according to the Star-Telegram. And the new Tahoe gets 20mpg on the hwy which is impressive for a big suv.

What is your take on the folks that say I'll only buy american no matter what ?

There's nothing wrong with that, just like their is nothing wrong with you only buying Toyotas. I love American cars, but I'm not going to say that I'll only buy American--that'd be silly, you buy whatever you will suit your needs/tastes at that point in time.

[nc211]

Somehow I knew you'd pop in on this one ;) Hahahaha....

Ohhh Swo3es...where are you? Hahahaha

I agree about the mpg, for sure! But I think the main reason why the suburbans are selling like that is due to incentives by Chevy to move the inventory. Price always dictates inventory. I've actualy thought about selling the LS for one of those Infiniti QX4's, simply because you can haggle the prices on suv's down so low, that it balances out with the current gas prices.

I agree with you on the weight of our cars. It sure does make me feel a hell of a lot more safe behind the wheel of my 11 year old LS400, than behind the wheel of my wife's 3 year old civic, that's for sure! If I had the choice of being the bug, or the windshield.....well, I'll take windshield for an extra $1,000 a year in gas, Mr. Trabeck. :D

[LEXIRX330]

I won't say I will never buy another American made car...but I have said over and over that my Jeep that is in my driveway will be the last American made car that I will ever buy if things do not change. I think to keep it pretty simple...I am not satisfied with the quality of the cars that are being produced...from everything to Cadillacs to cobalts...Lincolns to focuses...maybe the new warranties that the American car manufactures will help. My grandfather always told me if you change the oil in her and keep the fluids filled she'll last you forever! :whistles: Well after my 3rd ford that had problems and my 1st Jeep that had problems I realized that the cars that the cars that he was talking about were not made by American car companies anymore...other companies Honda, Toyota...and other foreign companies now are making them!

Just how I feel about it...gas mileage or not...warranty or not I will not buy another American made car until they start building some better quality cars.

:D :D

[blake918]

Somehow I knew you'd pop in on this one ;) Hahahaha....

Ohhh Swo3es...where are you? Hahahaha

I agree about the mpg, for sure! But I think the main reason why the suburbans are selling like that is due to incentives by Chevy to move the inventory. Price always dictates inventory. I've actualy thought about selling the LS for one of those Infiniti QX4's, simply because you can haggle the prices on suv's down so low, that it balances out with the current gas prices.

LOL Someone has to defend these fine cars eventhough this is a Lexus club! LOL I agree with price dictating inventory, but there are exceptions to every rule. American car co's price their cars stupidly. Check off every option box on a F150 and you are looking at a $40k-$45k sticker. That's rediculous, the truck just isn't worth that much which is why they lower it down $10k+ without much negotiation. "Employee Pricing" is nothing more than a brilliant marketing scheme. Ford, Chevy, and friends were knocking the same amount off of the msrp's before they started the employee pricing, and I'm sure they will continue to do the same after the program "ends."

Well after my 3rd ford that had problems and my 1st Jeep that had problems

Do tell, if they were so aweful, then why didn't you start buying Japanese after your first bad Ford, instead of buying 3 more American cars?

Just how I feel about it...gas mileage or not...warranty or not I will not buy another American made car until they start building some better quality cars

You say that as if the Japanese have a crystal clear reliability record when that's anything but true. No one is perfect, not even Toyota.

[LEXIRX330]

Do tell, if they were so aweful, then why didn't you start buying Japanese after your first bad Ford, instead of buying 3 more American cars?

You say that as if the Japanese have a crystal clear reliability record when that's anything but true. No one is perfect, not even Toyota.

YOUNG...DUMB...and STUPID!

Well let see I was 16 years old when I bought my 1st car...Ford Probe...17 when I got my Mustang...and then not quite 18 when I got my 1st Jeep Wrangler! I guess you learn as you get older... by the way my 3rd and final ford was about 4 years ago when I bought a truck just to have as a beater. Ford Ranger supercab 4x4 v6. Truck had all service records and pretty low miles...after 2 years I had put as much money into it as I paid for it!

My Jeep Cherokee that I have now took it's place...and I mean that it took its place. The only advantage I see having it, is that it is easy to work on parts are cheap! I like having it to go to Walmart and get mulch...take the dog etc...

I never said Toyota was perfect...or any car manufacture was...but I am now on my 3rd Toyota / Lexus and my parents and other family members have had Toyotas for the past 10+ years...

Check off every option box on a F150 and you are looking at a $40k-$45k sticker. That's ridiculous, the truck just isn't worth that much which is why they lower it down $10k+ without much negotiation. "Employee Pricing" is nothing more than a brilliant marketing scheme. Ford, Chevy, and friends were knocking the same amount off of the msrp's before they started the employee pricing, and I'm sure they will continue to do the same after the program "ends."

I agree with you 110%! The cars and trucks are priced to high to start with! Take..$10,000...off

[SW03ES]

Ohhh Swo3es...where are you? Hahahaha

LOL, I'm swamped at work and its slowing me down ;)

Tough times for the American auto industry, I don't know if theres coming back for Ford and GM to be honest.

As to quality questions, are Toyotas a better built product than Ford and GM? Yes. Have Ford and GM both made great strides in improving their product quality over the past couple years? Absolutely. Will it be enough to restore them as a leader in the Automotive industry? I'd be really surprised.

Ford and GM are going to wind up being sold off peice by peice to the Japanese, or the Koreans for that matter. Its just a matter of time.