Neo Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Buying a hybrid isn't about saving money on gas. I beg to differ on that one. Saving gas and/or pollution are probably the biggest reasons for buying hybrids. Enlighten me as to the point of buying a Civic Hybrid, Insight, Camry Hybrid, Prius, etc?? There are certainly better looking, better driving, faster, etc. cars in each of their price classes. If only I had a dime for every time I read how happy a new RX hybrid owner now is after trading in their gas guzzling Expedition or Tahoe on a 400h or how much gas their co-workers suvs drink.... The Hybrid technology is just that, a technology. It can be used for different goals. In the smaller/non-lux car segment, the manufacturer (in this case, Toyota & Honda) chose to tune the use of hybrids to help the car be more fuel efficient. In the lux segment, Toyota is using the technology to increase power with minimal expense to fuel efficiency. There is some regards to fuel efficiency but the goal here is power, quiet daily driving torque. I agree that for some, "Saving gas and/or pollution are probably the biggest reasons for buying hybrids." It is not the case for all though. You may disagree and thing that the latter group is out of their mind for doing so. It is still their opinion and $ to spend. It only makes them wrong in your eyes, not necessarily everyone else. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 whats really funny is how people are spending money to save the environment, and i plan to do the same thing, when sometimes i see people who drive 1960s-1970s vehicals that have black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe. Did you know they dont have to pass a smog check...well old enough cars. That is crazy, lets get those cars out of the road before we improve on our already ULEV vehicals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93LSOwner Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 whats really funny is how people are spending money to save the environment, and i plan to do the same thing, when sometimes i see people who drive 1960s-1970s vehicals that have black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe. Did you know they dont have to pass a smog check...well old enough cars. That is crazy, lets get those cars out of the road before we improve on our already ULEV vehicals They’ll fade out as well. You don’t see people driving model Ts do you? Those cars will be equivalent to model T’s before you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I agree that for some, "Saving gas and/or pollution are probably the biggest reasons for buying hybrids." It is not the case for all though. No duh, that's why I said "probably" and not "that's the only reason people buy them." You may disagree and thing that the latter group is out of their mind for doing so. It is still their opinion and $ to spend. Out of their mind? Please don't tell me how I think. In no way do I think hybrid drivers are out of their minds for buying them. I suggested that you do the math IF you are buying a hybrid to conserve gas just like KO suggested because it takes a long time to pay off the hybrid premium that their strictly ice cousins don't have. It only makes them wrong in your eyes, not necessarily everyone else. ;) Again, I never said anything of the sort. In fact, I admire them for going green since it's not on my list when looking at other cars. Just because I would buy a diesel over a hybrid doesn't mean that I think hybrids are wrong. 90% of my miles are on the interstates or in small cities; if I lived in a big city and sat in traffic for hours, I'd be all over the idea of a hybrid, but I don't, so that's why I'm not all in to it. Too, I don't race from stop light to stop light, so the extra performance does nothing for me. If I wanted a real sports car, that's what I'd buy.I like diesel power better than hybrid. It's just me. I don't care if I have a traditional tranny or a cvt, nor do I care if I can get to 60 1/2 second quicker either. In my mind, a hybrid is about saving gas; it's just me; it's my opinion. Buy what ever makes your little heart content. Craig, I'm sorry for jacking this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rx330driver Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 what a speech...is this where we all clap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 In my mind, a hybrid is about saving gas; it's just me; it's my opinion. Buy what ever makes your little heart content. LOL. It took awhile but you finally said what I was trying to say. It is your opinion (and you are perfectly entitled to it) that the use of hybrid technology is about saving gas. Others agree with this but also states that there is more to hybrids than just that. Maybe I read the "I beg to differ" in a different tone as you were challenging the position that other than being used for gas efficiency, hybrids don't have other uses. Opinions do not change how hybrids can be used. I apologize if that was not your intent and I was putting words in your mouth. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 93 LS400 vs 93 Mercedes.. My LEXUS is better and I think worth more! When you compare resale there is no comparison, Mercedes definately have better resale value than Lexus. Steve, For the past two years the Lexus GX470 has had the highest resell of ALL cars manufacturered. my wife and I have been looking at used GX's and currently 04's with 20 to 30 k are going for 42k. I can get new for 48k. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc19907 Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I just had to make a few statements on this... I've owned both cars (three Mercedes/ one Lexus) and they both are remarkably solid makes. Mercedes are the guinea pig for pioneering inovation. This will probably work itself out in years to come. Lexus are reliable, I guess - I've spent about 3K on mine in the two years I've owned it - Tires, brakes, starter, fluids. I spent 300$ on a new alternater for my 500sl - which was an awesome car - wrecked it.... Older Mercedes models with less electronics are more simple cars - I say stop worrying and just buy what you like! You'll pay to fix it, b/c you like the way the car looks/drives. You'll love either! I must say theres not much like looking down a shiny hood and seeing that star! Lexus needs some kind of cool hood ornament! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake918 Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Maybe I read the "I beg to differ" in a different tone as you were challenging the position I was, but I'm not saying that my views are the right or wrong ones. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I beg to differ on that one. Saving gas and/or pollution are probably the biggest reasons for buying hybrids. Enlighten me as to the point of buying a Civic Hybrid, Insight, Camry Hybrid, Prius, etc?? There are certainly better looking, better driving, faster, etc. cars in each of their price classes. If only I had a dime for every time I read how happy a new RX hybrid owner now is after trading in their gas guzzling Expedition or Tahoe on a 400h or how much gas their co-workers suvs drink.... Let me reword what I said, buying a hybrid is not about saving money. Its about technology, making a statement, or saving money spent on gas but its not about saving money for the sake of saving money. Thats evident by the price bump people pay for hybrids. And remember, I have a Prius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko90ls Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Lexus needs some kind of cool hood ornament! like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Lexus needs some kind of cool hood ornament! I only wonder... if Lexus put the Mercedes pointed star on the new LS460 and sold it at Mercedes dealerships (as a Mercedes car). What would the Mercedes enthusiasts think of the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS Teacher Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Currently own a 98 E300 Turbo Diesel. Sold the Camary (wonderful car) to upgrade to a Mercedes because of their engineering, safety, reliability, performance, and resale. I love the way it drives, handles, performs, fuel mileage around 33-34 mpg. I like the way it looks. I like the way others look at the car. It has been lousy on reliability however. First it was little things like the ash tray door not closing properly (warranty) but still doesn't work correctly. The coffee cup holder did not work properly (warranty). The passenger electric seat did not work correctly (warranty). Then the left rear window motor went (warranty). Then the other side went. The left side rear window motor went again. The left side rear window motor went again (3rd time). The air flow sensor went. The glow plug light came on. Replaced 3 glow plugs. The glow plug light came on again a month later. Replaced the other three. The glow plug light came on again after 14 months. Told them to replace all six plugs. They replaced only one. The glolw plug light came on again, after another 14 months. Bought all six glow plugs and laid them on the seat for them to replace 100%. (It is in the shop right now for this) The rear differential leaked, had them replace the seal. The front control arm bushings were cracked, had them install new bushings. (New bushings means car needs to be realigned) The electric fan motor that cools the engine quit working. Replaced it. The interior fan/AC/defroster motor is not working. (In shop right now, damage $$ unknown) The steering column moved when the turn signal was used. The Electric Ignition System (infrared key) quit working and the whole thing replaced. The check lights warning resulted in a wiring harness replacement (warranty). The low oil light and check coolant lights came on, not the same time of course, meaning two trips to the dealer. The oil and coolant were ok and they said "no trouble found". The rear view mirror came loose and was replaced (warranty). That just about covers my 98 Mercedes Benz with 98,700 original miles, original owner. The oil is changed without exception every 3-4K miles (old school). At this moment, it is in the shop again, and that is why I joined this club, my next car is going to be a Lexus. So I think I am an expert on MB reliability. I have spent a fair amount of time sitting in their customer lounge. While there, I tend to ask other MB owners why they were there. From what I recall, most are there for warranty/repair work and not routine maintenance. So we tell our horror stories, pay our bills, get in our cars and drive away. Now it would seem if I have paid once, and it fails again, they should offer me some "adjustment". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akewlguy Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Wow, I hate when my car is in shop for scheduled maintenance. Sounds like Teachers car has some issues. Good luck and a 92 LS400 would not have those problems. I am sure the 2006 are amazing. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 The assistant manager at my office has an 05 (04 maybe) E320 deisel that he traded a GS400 for and regrets it. Loves the mileage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS Teacher Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Currently own a 98 E300 Turbo Diesel. Sold the Camary (wonderful car) to upgrade to a Mercedes because of their engineering, safety, reliability, performance, and resale. I love the way it drives, handles, performs, fuel mileage around 33-34 mpg. I like the way it looks. I like the way others look at the car. It has been lousy on reliability however. First it was little things like the ash tray door not closing properly (warranty) but still doesn't work correctly. The coffee cup holder did not work properly (warranty). The passenger electric seat did not work correctly (warranty). Then the left rear window motor went (warranty). Then the other side went. The left side rear window motor went again. The left side rear window motor went again (3rd time). The air flow sensor went. The glow plug light came on. Replaced 3 glow plugs. The glow plug light came on again a month later. Replaced the other three. The glow plug light came on again after 14 months. Told them to replace all six plugs. They replaced only one. The glolw plug light came on again, after another 14 months. Bought all six glow plugs and laid them on the seat for them to replace 100%. (It is in the shop right now for this) The rear differential leaked, had them replace the seal. The front control arm bushings were cracked, had them install new bushings. (New bushings means car needs to be realigned) The electric fan motor that cools the engine quit working. Replaced it. The interior fan/AC/defroster motor is not working. (In shop right now, damage $$ unknown) The steering column moved when the turn signal was used. The Electric Ignition System (infrared key) quit working and the whole thing replaced. The check lights warning resulted in a wiring harness replacement (warranty). The low oil light and check coolant lights came on, not the same time of course, meaning two trips to the dealer. The oil and coolant were ok and they said "no trouble found". The rear view mirror came loose and was replaced (warranty). That just about covers my 98 Mercedes Benz with 98,700 original miles, original owner. The oil is changed without exception every 3-4K miles (old school). At this moment, it is in the shop again, and that is why I joined this club, my next car is going to be a Lexus. So I think I am an expert on MB reliability. I have spent a fair amount of time sitting in their customer lounge. While there, I tend to ask other MB owners why they were there. From what I recall, most are there for warranty/repair work and not routine maintenance. So we tell our horror stories, pay our bills, get in our cars and drive away. Now it would seem if I have paid once, and it fails again, they should offer me some "adjustment". Got the call late yesterday on my E300. The bill this time is $2380.99. As soon as I inspect the bill, I'll give an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akewlguy Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Thank god I have a LEXUS... Timing, Serp, Water pump, radiator flush and a few other things less then 700 bucks!! Not to shove in your face, just I hate spending excess money on cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko90ls Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 So I think I am an expert on MB reliability. I have spent a fair amount of time sitting in their customer lounge. While there, I tend to ask other MB owners why they were there. From what I recall, most are there for warranty/repair work and not routine maintenance. So we tell our horror stories, pay our bills, get in our cars and drive away. Unfortunately many mercedes owners share their HORROR stories here too (not an MB forum). guess it just happens too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W201 sweden Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 As a former Mercedes empoyee, (quit 4 years ago...) I have seen a lot of sad or angry MB-owners. One problem is that German car makers (not just MB) tend to "think in a different way", especially when it comes to dealing with electrical design. For instance Volvo and SAAB also use Bosch component and systems, but they do it "by the book". When you find these systems in a MB, you can be sure MB has not stayed with the original concept. For instance, the windshield washer pump on the W203 C-class is always "presented with" (?) voltage. The actual on/off manouvre of the pump is done by a relay box changing the CURRENT going to the motor, there is always 13 Volts on it... WHY??? Or the air flow meter in the newer motors, that is not supervised? ECU in other brands with this Bosch system will tell you if this component is defective, but not in a MB. There is also the strange discrepancy between different technology generations in the same car. The W124 (old E-class) was available with an overly complex "ECC" and an advanced slip and slide limiting system (the ASR which is still up to date today) while it still had the overly complex and unmodern KE fuel system. One leg was way ahead of competition, one lag dragging many years behind... my 2 cents... /Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS Teacher Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 So I think I am an expert on MB reliability. I have spent a fair amount of time sitting in their customer lounge. While there, I tend to ask other MB owners why they were there. From what I recall, most are there for warranty/repair work and not routine maintenance. So we tell our horror stories, pay our bills, get in our cars and drive away. Unfortunately many mercedes owners share their HORROR stories here too (not an MB forum). guess it just happens too often. I posted this same information on the MB web page and signed off their user's group. I picked up my Benz after spending the $300 for the new glow plugs which I laid on the front seat, and then $2380.99 to have them install them plus the AC motor expenses and then drove it to the Lexus dealer and bought a new 2006 LS430. Since I have only put 300 miles on the Lexus, it is way too early to tell how this car will compare to the Benz. I have noticed that the diesel Benz had more zip in passing at freeway speeds which surprised me. The Lexus shifts down and then goes, the Benz just went. The Lexus is more quiet but then I had a diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 bought a new 2006 LS430. Congratulations on the new car... But if I were in your shoes I would have waited for a few months and got the LS460 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko90ls Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 bought a new 2006 LS430. color? pics? congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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