The Es 350 And The Camry Almost Identical

[Buford]

Its worth it, it all depends on whether you want to or can spend the money for the LS. It is however worth the difference.

I could afford the LS; but like most folks, I don't want to spend more money for the sake of spending it. We'll have to see how smitten we are with it.

As for not buying the logo on the grill, if thats the case than you probably shouldn't be looking at luxury cars. Yes obviously these cars are intrinsically better than midmarket cars, but a certain portion of the difference is in the prestige of the brand.

It's definitely not worth an extra $10K for a car with many of the same features. The difference in refinement is worth some extra money to me. I'm not married to the idea of buying a luxury brand car, I'm interested in buying a luxury car. It's not going to be a blow to my pride if I figure out that a fully loaded Camry meets our needs just as well as an ES. But, we're a ways off from pulling the trigger on this. I have time to shop.

[Rx330driver]

are you telling me that the lexus logo does nothing for you? lol

thats like saying "i never sin"

but anywhoo, you have your opinion. I have to admit i buy my cars based on prestige.

[Buford]

are you telling me that the lexus logo does nothing for you?

That's going to the other extreme. But, the prestige thing is not all that important to me.

[SW03ES]

It's definitely not worth an extra $10K for a car with many of the same features. The difference in refinement is worth some extra money to me. I'm not married to the idea of buying a luxury brand car, I'm interested in buying a luxury car. It's not going to be a blow to my pride if I figure out that a fully loaded Camry meets our needs just as well as an ES. But, we're a ways off from pulling the trigger on this. I have time to shop.

Well, the Camry is not a luxury car. What makes a luxury car a luxury car is indeed the marque. If thats not something you're interested in thats fine, but I wouldn't look at any more luxury branded vehicles because they're going to dissapoint you. Seiko makes a nice watch, but its not a luxury item.

There's more to sizing up two vehicles than features. To people who appreciate luxury cars (and other luxury items) things like craftsmanship, style, feel, and prestige are sometimes equally as things like features and size. A luxury purchase is not made out of logic, its made out of emotion. If you're shopping for a luxury car logically you're always going to be scratching your head wondering why.

A Camry would meet my needs absolutely as well as my Lexus does. I wouldn't get the enjoyment of owning it and caring for it like I do out of the Lexus though. The Lexus makes my day just that little bit more enjoyable. To me, thats worth $10,000. Might not be to you and thats fine.

[Buford]

What makes a luxury car a luxury car is indeed the marque.

I don't agree. I think it is the features. But, there's no way to empirically make the case, so it's not worth picking at the scab. Although this will be met with a cacophony of contention, I would say that my Sienna XLE (with option pkg 7) is very much a luxury vehicle. Compare it to a base-model version of any van.

I have gotten lots of enjoyment from vehicles that I have owned, regardless of whatever logo was on the hood. With the possible exception of the thing in my avatar (which was a rolling wreck when I got it), I have never owned a car that was too cheap or lacking in prestige that it didn't deserve and receive alot of hands-on TLC. And, I've had my share of econo-boxes. I just spent the better part of the day washing and waxing a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth $1,500.

[SW03ES]

I don't agree. I think it is the features. But, there's no way to empirically make the case, so it's not worth picking at the scab. Although this will be met with a cacophony of contention, I would say that my Sienna XLE (with option pkg 7) is very much a luxury vehicle. Compare it to a base-model version of any van.

That may be what makes a luxury car to you. But stop people on the street and ask them what a luxury car is, they will give you brand names. Nobody considers your Sienna a luxury car. Its a minivan, just because it has a lot of features doesn't mean people are going to look at it on the street and make a connection that its a luxurious vehicle. Its a Toyota to people. People make comments to me about my Lexus all the time, "Oh Withrow and his Lexus" etc. People woudn't talk that way about a Toyota.

I have gotten lots of enjoyment from vehicles that I have owned, regardless of whatever logo was on the hood. With the possible exception of the thing in my avatar (which was a rolling wreck when I got it), I have never owned a car that was too cheap or lacking in prestige that it didn't deserve and receive alot of hands-on TLC. And, I've had my share of econo-boxes. I just spent the better part of the day washing and waxing a car that Kelly Blue Book says is worth $1,500.

I'm not telling you how you should feel, I'm just explaining how *I* feel and how the general luxury carbuyer feels. I've had cars before that weren't luxury cars and loved them very much. The car I had previously was a Ford Explorer Limited. Cost just as much as my ES, had plenty of bells and whistles. It still however was not a luxury car. Case in point when I bought the Lexus I had a lot of people surprised, people said things like "Wow, I didn't know you had that kind of money" even though the Explorer cost just as much! Thats the difference between an expensive midmarket car with lots of features and a luxury car. Its all in the marque.

Now, I'm less concerned with how others feel about my car or anything else about me than I am with how I feel about those things, but I'd be lying if I told you it didn't make me feel at least a little rewarded. I work very hard, I'm very successful and to me my Lexus is a spoil of that success that makes me feel good about myself. I like the way I feel when I'm driving it. I would not feel that way about driving a Camry.

THATS really why the ES350 costs $10,000 more.

Outside of that, I do honestly feel that you do get a lot of substance for that $10k. You get a smoother, quieter car with a more refined drivetrain. You get some added convienience features (like backup camera, ML audio, adaptive lighting, LED interior illumination, Lexus memory system tied to the smart key, the Lexus Personalized Settings program just to name a few), you get another year warranty, you get better service, you get better resale, and you get better long term aging (Toyotas do not age as well as Lexus do, trust me I have one of each), you get better materials on the interior, the build quality is better (Lexus tolerances are tighter), you get better carpeting, leather, and genuine wood trim, and you get a more stylish and prestigious car. To me, you also get a car thats honestly something to be proud of. Owning a luxury car is an accomplishment. Owning a Camry is not, 400,000 people a year buy Camrys, only 70,000 people a year buy ES350s (thats STILL a lot).

If none of those things are important to you, then by all means buy the Camry. To me, i wouldn't even bother to look at a Camry because I have no interest in driving that kind of car. Just like I would never consider a Buick, a Nissan, a Ford, a Honda, etc.

[Buford]

I suppose I'm much less interested in what other people think (which is good, since I regard most people as utterly stupid :P .... note the smiley). In fact, I think for the most part I'd rather that people didn't know how much money I have. I wouldn't take that to the extreme where I would be punishing myself with a ramshackle home and a rusty Pinto. If my Sienna seems like a luxury vehicle to me, that's more than good enough to meet the standard. But, you guys have a different take on it, and that's fine.

[SW03ES]

Then if I were you I'd buy the Camry and pocket the $10k

Don't get me wrong, I don't drive the Lexus to make people think anything about me or for people to "know how much money I have", I drive it because I like it and I like how it makes ME feel. The ES is a pretty commonplace car, especially here. Nobody gives my car a second thought in a parking lot or on the street. Its the same reason I buy expensive suits. Most people can't tell the difference as long as a suit is properly tailored, but I love the feel of a high quality Hickey Freeman, Burberry, or Zegna suit. It makes ME think more of MYSELF when I'm wearing it.

EDIT, I saw in your sig that you bought the tC!

[Buford]

EDIT, I saw in your sig that you bought the tC!

I did... a week ago today. I love it, too! It makes me feel like I'm 17 again, which is probably the age of most people who drive them.

I think my goal is to use it as a play-around/run errands car for a year or two. Then I think the time will be right to get another Porsche. Probably a 911 (997) this time. So much for people not knowing how much money I have.

[stuart8181]

Then if I were you I'd buy the Camry and pocket the $10k

Don't get me wrong, I don't drive the Lexus to make people think anything about me or for people to "know how much money I have", I drive it because I like it and I like how it makes ME feel. The ES is a pretty commonplace car, especially here. Nobody gives my car a second thought in a parking lot or on the street. Its the same reason I buy expensive suits. Most people can't tell the difference as long as a suit is properly tailored, but I love the feel of a high quality Hickey Freeman, Burberry, or Zegna suit. It makes ME think more of MYSELF when I'm wearing it.

EDIT, I saw in your sig that you bought the tC!

Shallow ego...

[LEXIRX330]

Then if I were you I'd buy the Camry and pocket the $10k

Don't get me wrong, I don't drive the Lexus to make people think anything about me or for people to "know how much money I have", I drive it because I like it and I like how it makes ME feel. The ES is a pretty commonplace car, especially here. Nobody gives my car a second thought in a parking lot or on the street. Its the same reason I buy expensive suits. Most people can't tell the difference as long as a suit is properly tailored, but I love the feel of a high quality Hickey Freeman, Burberry, or Zegna suit. It makes ME think more of MYSELF when I'm wearing it.

EDIT, I saw in your sig that you bought the tC!

Shallow ego...

Why is that?

[bartkat]

Deep thoughts. :D

[Rx330driver]

you tell him sw03es! (regarding your above posts, it just would have taken too much space to quote it)

So you bought the tc when were fussing over here about 10K?

its my philosophy that you have to have an SUV/van, a car for youself, and a luxury car to go out to, parties, events etc (perhaps you will meet the mayor at some gala). (those of you who dont have kids yet, get another list :P ) i think it would not be that hard to treat yourself to a lexus, its part of the experience of driving. Sure, you could buy the "same" car for a little less, but no matter what you say to people, they are still going to see that toyota sign and....well you know the rest.

understand were not shallow people (well maybe some of us) but driving a lexus to get compliments isnt exactly a bad thing, you know?

[SW03ES]

Shallow ego...

See you in 30 days. If you want to make personal comments about people, do it somewhere else.

[Buford]

So you bought the tc when were fussing over here about 10K?

You lost me on that one. If I had said I just went out and purchased a Ferrari F430, then I could understand the comment. But, the tC costs about as much as a happy meal. Just because I like to save money doesn't mean I couldn't spend it if I wanted to. :P

its my philosophy that you have to have an SUV/van, a car for youself, and a luxury car to go out to, parties, events etc (perhaps you will meet the mayor at some gala).

I see the mayor pretty often. He doesn't seem like much of a car guy to me. ;)

The way it works for me and the Mrs is more like this..... mini-van for moving the troops, nice daily driver for the wife (this is the one we have been thinking of replacing with a Lexus), Miata for Miata club events (which has become more of a family heirloom), and a car for me. The tC is a semi-sporty econo-box (with the quality of Toyota thrown in as a bonus). I probably would have more seriously considered a real sports car if our family wasn't about to expand. I figured I may want the flexibility of a 2+2.

[SW03ES]

The way it works for me and the Mrs is more like this..... mini-van for moving the troops, nice daily driver for the wife (this is the one we have been thinking of replacing with a Lexus

Are you sure about this? The adaptability of a minivan is extraordinary for a family, I think if you went to a sedan you'd really miss it.

[Buford]

I wasn't clear.... the mini-van is a different vehicle than the "nice daily driver for the wife." She currently drives the '03 Camry.

[bartkat]

What does the mayor drive?

[Buford]

What does the mayor drive?

I think it's a Caddy of some sort. Next time I go pay the water bill I'll ask him. :P

[bartkat]

What does the mayor drive?

I think it's a Caddy of some sort. Next time I go pay the water bill I'll ask him. :P

:D :D

We have a real interesting mayoral situation. Got a new mayor 2 years ago and he didn't like the police chief. He tried to get rid of the chief by several means but with no success. Well, the chief had enough years to retire so he did and then ran for city council. Now the ex chief is president of the council so the shoe is kinda on the other foot. I voted for the chief just hoping to have fun watching the action.

[SW03ES]

I wasn't clear.... the mini-van is a different vehicle than the "nice daily driver for the wife." She currently drives the '03 Camry.

AH okay, i gotcha now.

[Buford]

We have a real interesting mayoral situation.

I'm in Illinois, and as you know, we tend to have interesting political situations. But, your story beats any that I have heard of recently!

I do like the small town feel of where we live now. It's no exaggeration that I see the mayor every time I pay the water bill. Last time I was in city hall, he was standing at the counter sorting through his mail. That's why I sort of got a chuckle when RX mentioned trying to impress him at a "gala."

[Rx330driver]

See you in 30 days. If you want to make personal comments about people, do it somewhere else.

i wasnt referring to anyone specifically, except for maybe myself :whistles: but sorry if i offended anyone...just a little joke

[SW03ES]

Just to make it clear, I like the Lexus because it impresses me, I don't really care about impressing anyone else.

[Rx330driver]

Just to make it clear, I like the Lexus because it impresses me, I don't really care about impressing anyone else.

lol that comment made me realize you thought i was talking about you...i think...

well to make everything perfectly clear, that comment was not reffered to anyone at all. i was agreeing with you, hence the "you tell him" part