The Es 350 And The Camry Almost Identical

[Buford]

Nice piccy. I didn't realize they moved the ES to a 3 spoke wheel too.

And for no reason other than to horrify everyone.

It's horrifying? I think it looks sporty! The GS and IS also have 3-spoke wheels (appropriately, their design is even more sporty than that of the ES). The LS retains the old 4-spoke wheel, and it's one of the designs that actually reminds me of my Camry.

Different strokes, I guess.

Up to now, I figured if you had Bluetooth you were in bad need of a trip to the dentist. :P

[flanker271]

No matter how hard I tried to think positively, I just can't seem to like the ES350's center console. What's up with that oval shaped top? Anyone else find it awkward?

[Buford]

Anyone else find it awkward?

If we're taking a poll, I like that too. :P It is not like something Mercedes-Benz would produce (but that's not important to me).

On the dash, my only critique might be the hood that is above the gauges. That's something you stare right at, every time you get in the car, and it does look a little Camry-esque.

[tdgreer]

The IS is extremely small up front, forget about the back. I agree about the overall size.

However, I have grown to like the new GS' interior better than the new ES. If next summer for some reason I can't do the LS460 I want to do, I may opt for a GS350 AWD. I've tried to warm up to the new ES350s interior, but I just can't.

Exactly how I feel. I was looking forward to sliding into the new ES, but I can't get past the interior. I have looked at the GS several times now, and I really think the GS350 is where I will be going. Next summer for me too.

[SW03ES]

Don't get me wrong, its nice but the overall quality of the interior (plastic finishes, double vs triple seamed leather, thickness of carpeting) is not as good as the 02-06 and I think the overall look is definately downmarket from the 02-06. The 02-06 looks like a much more expensive car inside than it is, the 07 does not. I hear this from almost everybody I talk to about the subject too. I know several people who bought leftover 06s instead of 07s including an agent in my office and a client of mine.

So, currently the only Lexus interior I really LIKE is the LS460. The GS' is stronger than the ES' though.

toysrme, They went to a 3 spoke wheel in 02. I prefer 4 spokes too, but whatcha gonna do.

[Buford]

plastic finishes, double vs triple seamed leather, thickness of carpeting

Good points. I'll have to give it a closer look. One thing that will oddly work in my favor is that it has been a while since we have had a luxury vehicle. Our Sienna XLE (which is very nice) is about as close as we have come since the Audi A6 we owned briefly a few years ago... an unpleasant experience. And, before that I would have to go back almost twenty years to the Porsche 944.

The LS may be the way we go. I think I will need to take my wife back (when we're closer to buying) and have her look at all of them in rapid succession.

[amf1932]

Sorry fellas, I don't agree with your feelings comparing the GS with the ES. For the past month I've been driving my cousins '06 GS300AWD with less then 2K miles on the odometer, and after putting on about 1K miles, on both city & highway, I came to these conclusions. The ride was hard.......I always felt cramped in the drivers seat......my rear passengers didn't like the hump in the middle(drive train), and also the lack of leg room........the trunk was too small.....and rattles developed in the dash. These tradeoffs for a more sporty driving car left me with very negative feelings! On the other hand, when I went back to my ES350 I once again felt like I was being coddled in a car that gave me, and my passengers a much more spacious feeling........a much smoother, quieter ride. Every one of my passengers definitely preferred driving in the ES over the GS. The secondary things like the shape of the oval dashboard or the carpeting did not bother anybody in the least, including myself. Aaah.....it was like a breath of fresh air jumping back to my old ES350. So there! :)

[Buford]

Sorry fellas, I don't agree with your feelings comparing the GS with the ES.

Troublemaker!

[diegan]

Sorry fellas, I don't agree with your feelings comparing the GS with the ES. For the past month I've been driving my cousins '06 GS300AWD with less then 2K miles on the odometer, and after putting on about 1K miles, on both city & highway, I came to these conclusions. The ride was hard.......I always felt cramped in the drivers seat......my rear passengers didn't like the hump in the middle(drive train), and also the lack of leg room........the trunk was too small.....and rattles developed in the dash. These tradeoffs for a more sporty driving car left me with very negative feelings! On the other hand, when I went back to my ES350 I once again felt like I was being coddled in a car that gave me, and my passengers a much more spacious feeling........a much smoother, quieter ride. Every one of my passengers definitely preferred driving in the ES over the GS. The secondary things like the shape of the oval dashboard or the carpeting did not bother anybody in the least, including myself. Aaah.....it was like a breath of fresh air jumping back to my old ES350. So there! :)

I absolutely agree with you. I have been driving an Acura TSX since 2005 (I bought it because I liked the technology for the price) and although I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, every time I slide behind the wheel of my ES 350, I'm in love all over again. I really like the dash, instrument cluster and overall styling of the interior. I was disappointed that the ashtray came standard. I would have preferred a power outlet and another storage area. I also concur that Acura's voice recognition software appears better than Lexus voice recognition and hope that's fixable with a software upgrade at some point soon. In terms of exterior styling, ride, room, etc, I could't be more pleased. I have had the opportunity to compare to other Lexus vehicles including my former RX 330 and IS 300, and I prefer the interior of my ES 350 to those hands down. I also prefer the styling to that of the GS. As a techie, I wish the ES 350 had offered the LS new "auto-park" feature but I bet that option is one of the many reasons the LS tops out at $82G.

[corky]

Sorry fellas, I don't agree with your feelings comparing the GS with the ES. For the past month I've been driving my cousins '06 GS300AWD with less then 2K miles on the odometer, and after putting on about 1K miles, on both city & highway, I came to these conclusions. The ride was hard.......I always felt cramped in the drivers seat......my rear passengers didn't like the hump in the middle(drive train), and also the lack of leg room........the trunk was too small.....and rattles developed in the dash. These tradeoffs for a more sporty driving car left me with very negative feelings! On the other hand, when I went back to my ES350 I once again felt like I was being coddled in a car that gave me, and my passengers a much more spacious feeling........a much smoother, quieter ride. Every one of my passengers definitely preferred driving in the ES over the GS. The secondary things like the shape of the oval dashboard or the carpeting did not bother anybody in the least, including myself. Aaah.....it was like a breath of fresh air jumping back to my old ES350. So there! :)

I absolutely agree with you. I have been driving an Acura TSX since 2005 (I bought it because I liked the technology for the price) and although I know I'm comparing apples and oranges, every time I slide behind the wheel of my ES 350, I'm in love all over again. I really like the dash, instrument cluster and overall styling of the interior. I was disappointed that the ashtray came standard. I would have preferred a power outlet and another storage area. I also concur that Acura's voice recognition software appears better than Lexus voice recognition and hope that's fixable with a software upgrade at some point soon. In terms of exterior styling, ride, room, etc, I could't be more pleased. I have had the opportunity to compare to other Lexus vehicles including my former RX 330 and IS 300, and I prefer the interior of my ES 350 to those hands down. I also prefer the styling to that of the GS. As a techie, I wish the ES 350 had offered the LS new "auto-park" feature but I bet that option is one of the many reasons the LS tops out at $82G.

[corky]

I wanted to trade my '04 ES330 in on the 2007 ES but the interior isn't as nice IMHO as mine and now I'm waffling. I'm not familar enough with new car re-design so is it possible or even likely, that the 2008 interior will change by adding more wood trim, etc. ?

[SW03ES]

The LS may be the way we go. I think I will need to take my wife back (when we're closer to buying) and have her look at all of them in rapid succession.

Well, one thing to think about with the LS vs the ES is the fact that the LS is $30,000 more expensive. Of course its going to be nicer, but IMHO the ES (even the 07) still represents a remarkable similarity to the LS given the huge price differential.

Sorry fellas, I don't agree with your feelings comparing the GS with the ES. For the past month I've been driving my cousins '06 GS300AWD with less then 2K miles on the odometer, and after putting on about 1K miles, on both city & highway, I came to these conclusions. The ride was hard.......I always felt cramped in the drivers seat......my rear passengers didn't like the hump in the middle(drive train), and also the lack of leg room........the trunk was too small.....and rattles developed in the dash. These tradeoffs for a more sporty driving car left me with very negative feelings! On the other hand, when I went back to my ES350 I once again felt like I was being coddled in a car that gave me, and my passengers a much more spacious feeling........a much smoother, quieter ride. Every one of my passengers definitely preferred driving in the ES over the GS. The secondary things like the shape of the oval dashboard or the carpeting did not bother anybody in the least, including myself. Aaah.....it was like a breath of fresh air jumping back to my old ES350.

These have always been the things that have made me prefer the ES to the GS. I think at least one issue with the GS though, the ride, can be fixed by getting rid of the runflat tires. I think with a good set of touring tires the GS would ride pretty close to the ES.

There's no doubt the new GS interior uses better materials than the ES350's though. Its obvious, the wood has a deeper luster, the carpets are thicker, the door panels are more padded, the leather is triple stitched, the gauges are higher quality looking with their machined finish. The technologies are more advanced with the auto sensing gauges with the adaptive tint feature. These things really mean a lot to me, and I'm not going to spend $5k more than my ES300 cost to get a car that Lexus has REDUCED the material quality of the interior over the one I've got. I'd rather spend a little more and get a GS (provided the tires will soften the ride) or just go for it and get an LS. Since I lease you're talking a $750 payment for an ES vs an $1100 payment for and LS. $250 a month and you've got the best car in the lineup, thats much less of a difference than there was back when I got my ES300, then it was more than twice as much per month...

[amf1932]

These have always been the things that have made me prefer the ES to the GS. I think at least one issue with the GS though, the ride, can be fixed by getting rid of the runflat tires. I think with a good set of touring tires the GS would ride pretty close to the ES.

There's no doubt the new GS interior uses better materials than the ES350's though. Its obvious, the wood has a deeper luster, the carpets are thicker, the door panels are more padded, the leather is triple stitched, the gauges are higher quality looking with their machined finish. The technologies are more advanced with the auto sensing gauges with the adaptive tint feature. These things really mean a lot to me, and I'm not going to spend $5k more than my ES300 cost to get a car that Lexus has REDUCED the material quality of the interior over the one I've got. I'd rather spend a little more and get a GS (provided the tires will soften the ride) or just go for it and get an LS. Since I lease you're talking a $750 payment for an ES vs an $1100 payment for and LS. $250 a month and you've got the best car in the lineup, thats much less of a difference than there was back when I got my ES300, then it was more than twice as much per month...

Why Steve......didn't you know I ordered my ES with quadruple stitched leather seats, and I had my friends from the Steinway piano company refinish the wood with a deeper lustrous, grainier finish. I also ordered custom gauges from the Rolex watch company.....with 'lil diamonds for each 10 miles per hour indications. hehe :P

[SW03ES]

LOL

That actually is a question I wanted to ask you. I only drove a UL once, before they became "forbidden" on the east coast. Does the upgraded semi-analine leather have triple stitching on the seats?

[amf1932]

LOL

That actually is a question I wanted to ask you. I only drove a UL once, before they became "forbidden" on the east coast. Does the upgraded semi-analine leather have triple stitching on the seats?

Yes.

[SW03ES]

Then that would solve that issue for me at least...

The standard leather on the car is a huge step down from the leather in the 02-06...

[amf1932]

Then that would solve that issue for me at least...

The standard leather on the car is a huge step down from the leather in the 02-06...

Yup, the feel of the leather in the UL Editon is far superior then the standard ES's.

Another point is how much I love the panoramic moonroof. When the inside shades are open, the car has a bright, open feeling that you don't get at all on the standard moonroof. My rear seat passengers love it!

[Buford]

quadruple stitched leather seats, and I had my friends from the Steinway piano company refinish the wood with a deeper lustrous, grainier finish. I also ordered custom gauges from the Rolex watch company.....with 'lil diamonds for each 10 miles per hour indications. hehe :P

Don't forget the TEAC audio system. :P

[SW03ES]

I personally am beyond annoyed with Lexus witholding the UL package, or at least not offering options like the upgraded audio, the upgraded leather, and the panormamic roof without it. They're doing the same thing on the LS, its almost impossible to get an LS460 with ML audio, you have to pay $14,000 more for an LS460L.

[amf1932]

I personally am beyond annoyed with Lexus witholding the UL package, or at least not offering options like the upgraded audio, the upgraded leather, and the panormamic roof without it. They're doing the same thing on the LS, its almost impossible to get an LS460 with ML audio, you have to pay $14,000 more for an LS460L.

Too many choices would make them crazy on the assembly line. :)

I found out early on that the ML audio, panoramic roof, an upgraded leather(with the drivers seat extension) was only offered in the UL Edition. :(

[SW03ES]

I dont disagree with that at all, but they should at least be more intelligent about WHY they package cars the way they do. Lets say I want a new ES350. Well, the ONLY model I can get would be a downgraded stereo & downgraded leather from my 2003, for $2,000 more money! It makes no sense why we can't get the ML stereo. It makes even LESS sense why we can't get the ML stereo on a $68,000 LS460.

What makes EVEN LESS sense is that people on the west coast can get whatever they want!

[tdgreer]

I dont disagree with that at all, but they should at least be more intelligent about WHY they package cars the way they do. Lets say I want a new ES350. Well, the ONLY model I can get would be a downgraded stereo & downgraded leather from my 2003, for $2,000 more money! It makes no sense why we can't get the ML stereo. It makes even LESS sense why we can't get the ML stereo on a $68,000 LS460.

What makes EVEN LESS sense is that people on the west coast can get whatever they want!

IMO, you shouldn't have to be "stepping down". If the idea was to downgrade items in order to add other perks without raises the price much, that's crazy. They seem to forget about the current ES owners and how they would feel about that. I really like my 330 (save the transmission) and it really rubs me the wrong way to think that to stay in the ES line, I have to sacrifice. The car should be moving forward- at least don't take away from it.

Also, IMO, the ML should be standard in the LS. Nav optional, but ML stereo standard.

[Buford]

IMO, you shouldn't have to be "stepping down".

You guys have got my head spinning! One post will make me feel reasonably smart about considering the ES350, and the next will make me feel like a moron.

[SW03ES]

You guys have got my head spinning! One post will make me feel reasonably smart about considering the ES350, and the next will make me feel like a moron.

Well its a little bit different for you because you're not coming from an older ES. The ES350 is a teriffic car, we're just irritated about the downgrades Lexus made from the models we currently own.

The only way to get an ES similar in features and quality to mine is to get a UL model, which I would do. However Lexus has decided that nobody on the east coast can buy a UL model, so no ES350 for me.

It was the same way with the ES300 and ES330. Back then we couldn't have the air suspension or the power pedals but they could on the west coast.

For me the transmission doesn't really bother me, mine is still in great shape and it drives and rides great. Without the UL package there is absolutely no interest in upgrading to an ES350 for me.

[Buford]

However Lexus has decided that nobody on the east coast can buy a UL model, so no ES350 for me.

Is there a way for me to tell if it's available where I am (short of asking the dealer)? I'd be buying from a St Louis area dealer.

When we made our visit to the dealer, we looked at a bunch of different models. I can't remember what the ES had. I think the bottom line on the Monroney Sticker was around $41K, but that could have been the Navigation/Mark Levinson package combined with some other accessories.