2003 Rx 300 Awd Horrible In Snow

[kenpomasta]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

[lexus411]

my RX's always behaved great in the snow. You may be experiencing a little black ice or possible the tires aren't the best. My first RX didnt even have the VSC and it made it through every storm. Another solution may be to put the snow button on. That shouild help with slippage at start up

[wwest]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

You need to keep in mind that your previous FWD had a very low margin of extra traction. If you did not have traction control and tried to accelerate in those conditions you very quickly learned the traction limits due to uncontrolled wheelspin. You learned not to use too much "leadfoot" than was warranted by road conditions. With a FWD vehicle and a slippery roadbed you can always accelerate at a faster rate going straight ahead than you can during a turn.

If you did have traction control then the "learning" process would be even quicker. At the instant wheelspin developed the front brake(s) would be applied, possibly moderately, while at the same time the engine would be dethrottled. So now you, by default, learn at what level you can use the accelerator pedal without the traction system activating and assuming control.

Since an AWD system gives you more leeway, a greater level of overall traction for acceleration on a slippery surface, the traction control system will be somewhat "detuned", less sensitive to quick activation in the case of wheelspin. You said that as you accelerated into a turn the rear end started to come about/around. The proper reaction for you, as the driver, at that point in time was to lift the throttle and stear into the skid (opposite the direction you initially turned). Absent doing that fairly quickly the VSC will activate, dethrottle the engine and apply braking to the front outside (outside your initial turn direction) wheel to provide "moment" to bring the rear back into line.

I don't know, can't say, about the Lexus VSC/Tarc system, but the activation of PSM in my Porsche (equivalent to VSC/trac) is intentionally delayed so as to give the driver time to react on his/her own. In the end that would be the most reasonable method of implementing these functions since that way there would be less chance for inadvertently "doubling" (simultaneous driver and ...) the corrective measures for understearing, over-stearing, or loss of traction due to "leadfooting".

[GoldenStateSilverSport]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

I have the RX300 Silversport..2001. it's AWD. I've taken my car to the snow, and I'm not going to lie. It doesn't have the best traction, my car has slid before in the snow etc...I don't feel totally safe driving this vehicle in the snow. Many times when I've stopped, I can feel the Anti-lock breaks kickin in cause the car is somewhat sliding. I've driven other cars such as Denali's and the Tahoe in the snow and I must say I feel much safer in these cars.

Foir me personally, I think what it comes down to are the tires. The stock tires which are Duelers aren't exactly made for the snow. I think it's an all around performance tire and more for "performance" and spirited driving. When it comes time to replacing my tires, I think I'm gonna have to go with something a bit more aggressive..something that gives me greater traction. If you plan on taking the car to the snow often, I'd recommend you upgrade the tires to something made more for the snow. Cheers

[Jim L]

I dunno, our 02 (with new Bridgestones) seems to be fine.

Last month during our 20" snow storm I went out 6 hours after the storm ended, many roads were still totally snow covered and it was fine.

We live on a very steep hill, only "sort of plowed" it was fine

Perhaps the person who just bought that 03 has a FWD instead of an AWD, it's been known to happen?

Are they the absolute best, NO, but not that bad IMO

[mikey00]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

[wwest]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

Please keep in mind that most winter type tires are like, equivalent too, those huge MUDDERS you often see on off-road vehicles. If there is no "loose" surface layer for the tread block to "bite", sink into, they will provide less overall traction than your standard "summer" tire simply because they have less surface area for contacting the roadbed.

And now someone will bring up that "old saw" about winter tire tread rubber compounds being more compliant with COLD roadbed surfaces. The bottom line is that every demostration of winter tires' traction I have ever been aware of, seen, involved a good top layer of loose snow. Show me a comparison test of winter tires vs summer tires on an ice rink and then I will believe.

Meanwhile I'll continue running my Bridgestone Turanza SUMMER ONLY tires for their comfort and quietness and resort to tire chains when the need arises, which is RARELY.

[sirrah74]

get rid of those tires! I had duelers on a Suzuki Vitara and they were awful. They didn't wear well and had, in my opinion very poor wet/snow traction. They were even worse when worn. I can't imagine it is the vehicle itself but the tires you are running. What mileage do you have on them?

Mark

[SW03ES]

Its tires. The RX300 came with some of the most horrible tires ever designed, Goodyear Integritys (they also come standard on my Prius, and Toyota Corollas just so you know how un suited they are for the RX.

Get some good rubber on there, something like a Michelin LTX M/S and I bet your next outing into the snow will be much more rewarding.

[kenpomasta]

Thanks for all the replys. I was just very surprised in how it handles. The AWD system is working, cause it helped me out getting up a hill thats ive got stuck on before. Just was very surprised in this cars reaction off the line turning. It has a set of bridgestones on it, not sure which ones. would have to look. It acted very much like a RWD car w/o stablilty. Ive driving in the snow one of my friends 7 series, and when stability is off. I could spin the car on command, but with the system on, theres no way to spin it, it reacts instantly to keep you moving where you want to. The VSC on my RX didnt react till I was almost sideways, I didnt have a problem countersteering to correct for the spin, and I was able to control it every time it did, just scared the living crap out of me, was not expecting this type of driving trait with a AWD car. The car really felt like it unloaded the front, and sent everything to the rear, cause it was a delay from when I started the turn, to when the rear came out.

Im not that impressed with the tires the lexus dealer put on it, they replaced the fronts when I bought the car, they matched the tired, so they are all the same tire, The tread doesnt look very aggressive @ all, more like a summer tire vs. SUV tire.

[mikey00]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

Please keep in mind that most winter type tires are like, equivalent too, those huge MUDDERS you often see on off-road vehicles. If there is no "loose" surface layer for the tread block to "bite", sink into, they will provide less overall traction than your standard "summer" tire simply because they have less surface area for contacting the roadbed.

And now someone will bring up that "old saw" about winter tire tread rubber compounds being more compliant with COLD roadbed surfaces. The bottom line is that every demostration of winter tires' traction I have ever been aware of, seen, involved a good top layer of loose snow. Show me a comparison test of winter tires vs summer tires on an ice rink and then I will believe.

Meanwhile I'll continue running my Bridgestone Turanza SUMMER ONLY tires for their comfort and quietness and resort to tire chains when the need arises, which is RARELY.

Winter tires are definetly better on ice. You may want to check out some of the tests at tire rack. It looks like excatly the test you are requesting. They have been testing tires on a hockey rink for the last 7 years.

[LexKid630]

The only situations i have ever had problems with the AWD rx300 is snow are:

1. trying to stop! that thing just keeps sliding!

2. trying to turn w/o the rear going out too far

3. going up a hill from a stop with the ground covered

The rx330 wasn't better at all. It is MUCH better than the LS430, so i can't complain. The LS is BEYOND terrible in the snow.

I have the Bridgestone (?'s) on it right now (only 7k miles on them, got them last June) the same tires that came on it. They aren't good in the snow!

I think the VSC really helps though on turns.

[Rx300_coach]

Winter time....the rear loves to swing out on my Rx300....however i find with very slow steady throttling thru a turn it minimizes traction loss....and leaves you with much more confidence as i've noticed My RX performs excellent otherwise int he snow....however throw a turn at it and it's something to worry about.

and i can vouch for wwest's comments....they are very well put together imo :)

[wwest]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

Please keep in mind that most winter type tires are like, equivalent too, those huge MUDDERS you often see on off-road vehicles. If there is no "loose" surface layer for the tread block to "bite", sink into, they will provide less overall traction than your standard "summer" tire simply because they have less surface area for contacting the roadbed.

And now someone will bring up that "old saw" about winter tire tread rubber compounds being more compliant with COLD roadbed surfaces. The bottom line is that every demostration of winter tires' traction I have ever been aware of, seen, involved a good top layer of loose snow. Show me a comparison test of winter tires vs summer tires on an ice rink and then I will believe.

Meanwhile I'll continue running my Bridgestone Turanza SUMMER ONLY tires for their comfort and quietness and resort to tire chains when the need arises, which is RARELY.

Winter tires are definetly better on ice. You may want to check out some of the tests at tire rack. It looks like excatly the test you are requesting. They have been testing tires on a hockey rink for the last 7 years.

When was the last time you saw TireRack test a summer tire against what they want to sell you as a winter tire, hockey rink or not?

[mikey00]

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

Please keep in mind that most winter type tires are like, equivalent too, those huge MUDDERS you often see on off-road vehicles. If there is no "loose" surface layer for the tread block to "bite", sink into, they will provide less overall traction than your standard "summer" tire simply because they have less surface area for contacting the roadbed.

And now someone will bring up that "old saw" about winter tire tread rubber compounds being more compliant with COLD roadbed surfaces. The bottom line is that every demostration of winter tires' traction I have ever been aware of, seen, involved a good top layer of loose snow. Show me a comparison test of winter tires vs summer tires on an ice rink and then I will believe.

Meanwhile I'll continue running my Bridgestone Turanza SUMMER ONLY tires for their comfort and quietness and resort to tire chains when the need arises, which is RARELY.

Winter tires are definetly better on ice. You may want to check out some of the tests at tire rack. It looks like excatly the test you are requesting. They have been testing tires on a hockey rink for the last 7 years.

When was the last time you saw TireRack test a summer tire against what they want to sell you as a winter tire, hockey rink or not?

To answer your question, September 2005 was the last test. Next one will most likely be September 2006.

But if you prefer not to use their test results, you can view user survey results for ice traction on any tires you want. These surveys are based on thousands of users driving millions of miles on these tires, rather than one mans opinion.

[kenpomasta]

Winter time....the rear loves to swing out on my Rx300....however i find with very slow steady throttling thru a turn it minimizes traction loss....and leaves you with much more confidence as i've noticed My RX performs excellent otherwise int he snow....however throw a turn at it and it's something to worry about.

and i can vouch for wwest's comments....they are very well put together imo :)

OK so its not just me about the winter behavior of it. Do putting a set of winter tires on it help with the rear coming out? I know when I had winters on my FWD cars. they were more or less perfect in the snow. Never had a hint of problems with them. I was hoping AWD helped even more, but mabye I was just hoping too much.

[SW03ES]

Winter tires will DEFINATELY help, or just a better set of all seasons will help too.

[JDC]

I have a 2002 RX AWD with upgraded Michelin LTX M&S tires (as part of the original purchase). In Nova Scotia, we can get a pile of snow (up to 1m in 24 hrs on rare occasions) and I've never had any trouble getting around very hilly roads. Like others, I suggest you replace your rubber with more aggressive tires.

[wwest]

I have a 2002 RX AWD with upgraded Michelin LTX M&S tires (as part of the original purchase). In Nova Scotia, we can get a pile of snow (up to 1m in 24 hrs on rare occasions) and I've never had any trouble getting around very hilly roads. Like others, I suggest you replace your rubber with more aggressive tires.

My own experience is that at sub-freezing temperatures freshly falling, fallen snow has about the same traction coefficient as beach sand...

[SW03ES]

My own experience is that at sub-freezing temperatures freshly falling, fallen snow has about the same traction coefficient as beach sand...

Well, thats not at all been my experience.

What is with you and this refusal to acknowledge anything anyone else says if it doesn't concur with whatever theory you're currenty writing pages and pages that nobody is reading about? All he said was that replacing his tires helped greatly with his traction. If he drives around in sub freezing temperatures with snow with the tractional qualities of beach sand now then he drove around on the same thing previously so it doesn't matter because the end result is the same, replacement of his tires improved his traction and the drivability of his RX in the snow.

How many times did we have to yell that the ES without VSC and TRAC still have the throttle lag before you finally gave up? 12 times? You didn't even know they sold ES' without VSC and TRAC and we had to yell that at you 4 or 5 times before you ceded that.

If you're going to have a discussion with someone you've got to be open to their point of view and work with the things they throw at you instead of just writing them off as not knowing what they're talking about. There are certainly people in the world that know as much as you do about everything, and there are many people here that I know that know as much as you do about this particular topic and they're all posting in this thread. Some of them agree with you, some of them don't. You need to work with what they're saying because guess what, they own the car too and drive it in the snow too. Otherwise you just seem like a jerk and a waste of time to talk to.

[wwest]

Why not just assume I'm a jerk and don't read my posts.

That's okay by me.

[lexusonthelake]

My 02 AWD performs well in the snow and ice

I just bought a 2003 RX 300 AWD with the lexus CPO program. Ive been very pleased with it for the last 2 weeks that Ive had it, however today it snowed. I was excited to see how it was going to handle expecting it to be better then my old FWD car. To my surprise this RX is not driveable in the snow :( Any time im trying to turn @ a stop sign Im having major problems. I try to accel a little just like I have drivin every other car. mostly FWDs some with snows some w/o. The rear of the RX is coming out from me. The car keeps getting almost sideways before the vsc turns on and trys to help me. This car has un nerved me. Ive always been a very confident driver in the snow, but this car has me wondering if I should go out or not. Anyone else have problems with this car in the snow.?

The AWD system on the RX does have many limitations as has been discussed here many times. But performance in light to moderate snow is one of its stronger points. I suspect black ice or mediocre tires as lexus411 did.

[SW03ES]

Why not just assume I'm a jerk and don't read my posts.

That's okay by me.

Because I don't think you're a jerk, but I do tend to skip through most of your posts simply because I have no earthly idea what you're talking about most of the time. Seeing that your posts often don't ever get responses, my guess is this is true of most people as well.

If you don't want people to read your posts then why do you post them? You obviously expend a lot of energy on them...

[hamilton200]

My Rx300 handles excellent in serious snow conditions. My car drives without any problems during adverse snow/ice conditions while other cars on the road are spinning or end up getting stuck.

:D

[Benjamin Tang]

i don't know if this has been posted before but this video from germany has an rx300/harrier participating in a hill climb test against other awd/4wd vehicles:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...268390&q=german