Transmission Problems/failures with RX300 awd/fwd

[monarch]

Also, at http://www.craigslist.org/ there are about 100 for sale ads of RX300's with over 100,000 miles. Here's a small sampling from the San Francisco Bay Area:

1999 Lexus RX300 ALL WHEEL DRIVE Super CLEAN, New Timing Belt 135,000k miles,

1999  RX 300: ALL WHEEL DRIVE LEXUS, FACTORY CHROME WHEELS, 111,000 Miles

2001 LEXUS RX300 AWD - $17990 120,000 miles

1999 Lexus RX RX300 4X4 $11,100 137,000 miles

1999 lexus rx300 - $14,000 110,000 miles

1999 Lexus RX300 SUV Loaded , orig. Owner - $11500 (los altos) 145,000K miles

To date, I havn't seen a single one of these ads that said: "new transmission" or "transmission replaced"

[tmhtmh]

Also, at http://www.craigslist.org/ there are about 100 for sale ads of RX300's with over 100,000 miles. Here's a small sampling from the San Francisco Bay Area:

1999 Lexus RX300 ALL WHEEL DRIVE Super CLEAN, New Timing Belt 135,000k miles,

1999  RX 300: ALL WHEEL DRIVE LEXUS, FACTORY CHROME WHEELS, 111,000 Miles

2001 LEXUS RX300 AWD - $17990 120,000 miles

1999 Lexus RX RX300 4X4 $11,100 137,000 miles

1999 lexus rx300 - $14,000 110,000 miles

1999 Lexus RX300 SUV Loaded , orig. Owner - $11500 (los altos) 145,000K miles

To date, I havn't seen a single one of these ads that said: "new transmission" or "transmission replaced"

Oh good grief!!!!!! Is there no limit to your silly "proof"? OBVIOUSLY no one is going to ADVERTISE that the vehicle they are trying to sell crapped out! You have got to be kidding! Yeah, they may mention a NORMAL maintanance item (Timing belt) so the new owner would know that one is covered, but a NEW TRANNY? In the ad?

Monarch's Add for his RX300 (if he actually had one):

For Sale: 2000 Lexus RX300. 100k mi.; Tranny blew out twice; sludged engine replaced from junkyard; Poor turn radius so find big parking spaces. Ideal for those who drive like a grandmother on prozac. ALL fluids changed every 2,000 mi.; Totota quality (up 'till warranty which long ago expired); Comes with extended warranty for everything EXCEPT all parts and labor. $20,000

[RX in NC]

EdS,

You misinterpreted my statement. You're correct about the financial reimbursement actually coming from corporate, but your local dealer will be more responsive to your issues than corporate will. Case in point - call corporate to complain about any issue of your choice. 95% of the time you'll be blown off and referred to your dealer. That's why your relationship needs to grow at the dealership level. If you're persistent, well-versed on your problem and what solution you expect, and can back it up with documented cases of similar issues happening to other owners, you have a much greater chance getting what you want at the dealership than you do with corporate.

At last count I've dealt with seven different well-known failures with my wife's RX300, all at the local dealership level (I only discuss my issues with the Service Manager and the General Manager - I don't deal with folks who are not in positions of authority). I'm still batting 1.000 getting the dealership to fix the issues completely at their expense. About half of our issues occured under warranty and the remainder occured after our warranty had run its course. Our local dealership invoked the somewhat nefarious "goodwill warranty" for those.

monarch,

We know that some RX300s manage to get over 100,000 miles on their original transmissions. We also know that many of them DO NOT. Your stupid post adds nothing to the issue here, as usual.

I'll repeat what for me is the defining criteria for the RX300 transmission issue: If your Lexus service advisor or mechanic is telling you that you should change your ATF at least every 15,000 miles, what do you think they know about the durability of their transmission system? They certainly know it's weak, and although they'll never admit it, they probably know that it's flawed....

[wwest]

Bear in mind that you have a far greater chance of getting financial assistance from your dealership than you do from Lexus Corporate....

I completely disagree with this statement. The dealer isn't going to do anything without Lexus corporate being behind it. The assistance will ultimately be given by the dealer, but they will be reimbursed by corporate.

But there is "middle ground" however...

If you have a long and steller reputation with one specific dealer, purchased a number of vehicles and always used them for service, that dealer is much more likely to go to bat for you than anyone at corporate. I have seen, experienced, dealers finding creative ways to get corporate to pay for things they didn't know they were paying for.

Sorry for the redundent post....

But do keep in mind that most dealers would recommend ATF drain and flush at 10,000 miles if they thought it would "fly". Personally mine will not get changed out again until I again see or smell some indication of ATF degradation. But you better believe that I will be very watchful here-to-fore.

[monarch]

If your Lexus service advisor or mechanic is telling you that you should change your ATF at least every 15,000 miles, what do you think they know about the durability of their transmission system? They certainly know it's weak, and although they'll never admit it, they probably know that it's flawed....

RX in NC, I agree with Bluestu when he wrote: "It's not a design flaw, but a service flaw. Just because it says Lexus, made by Toyota, doesn't mean it is maintenance free. Most transmissions will fail if you don't replace all the fluid on a regular basis."

Also, I suggest you check the owners manuals of some American cars of the 1960's that had legendary reputations for durability. Example: 1965 Chevy Impala owners manual: "Drain and refill the Powerglide transmission fluid every 12,000 miles." Impala owners who obeyed those instructions obtained 250,000 + miles of troublefree automatic transmission service.

In the late 60's and early 1970's Toyota owners manuals read as follows: "change automatic transmission fluid, manual transmission, differential gear oil and repack front wheel bearing grease every 24 months or 18,000 miles" "Change brake fluid every 12 months or 12,000 miles" In those days corporate Toyota recommended short (frequent) service intervals because they were best for maximum component durability. By the mid- 70's corporate Toyota started extending service intervals because they realized American consumers wrongly associate short (frequent) service intervals with weak mechanical designs.

In other countries like Australia and Brazil where customers are less inclined to associate short (frequent) service intervals with weak mechanical designs, Toyota still recommends shorter (more frequent) service intervals than in the USA.

[wwest]

If your Lexus service advisor or mechanic is telling you that you should change your ATF at least every 15,000 miles, what do you think they know about the durability of their transmission system? They certainly know it's weak, and although they'll never admit it, they probably know that it's flawed....

RX in NC, I agree with Bluestu when he wrote: "It's not a design flaw, but a service flaw. Just because it says Lexus, made by Toyota, doesn't mean it is maintenance free. Most transmissions will fail if you don't replace all the fluid on a regular basis."

Also, I suggest you check the owners manuals of some American cars of the 1960's that had legendary reputations for durability. Example: 1965 Chevy Impala owners manual: "Drain and refill the Powerglide transmission fluid every 12,000 miles." Impala owners who obeyed those instructions obtained 250,000 + miles of troublefree automatic transmission service.

In the late 60's and early 1970's Toyota owners manuals read as follows: "change automatic transmission fluid, manual transmission, differential gear oil and repack front wheel bearing grease every 24 months or 18,000 miles" "Change brake fluid every 12 months or 12,000 miles" In those days corporate Toyota recommended short (frequent) service intervals because they were best for maximum component durability. By the mid- 70's corporate Toyota started extending service intervals because they realized American consumers wrongly associate short (frequent) service intervals with weak mechanical designs.

In other countries like Australia and Brazil where customers are less inclined to associate short (frequent) service intervals with weak mechanical designs, Toyota still recommends shorter (more frequent) service intervals than in the USA.

Okay, just how do you address the obvious conflict between what the owners manual, written by and under the guidance of the factory engineering team, states vs the newly required 15,000 mile interval??

Absent an initial design flaw, how do you get from "no service required" to 10 ATF flush and drain actions in 150,000 miles?

A typo in the manual, maybe...??

I drove two Ford full size Station wagons, a 68 and a 72, well over 200,000 miles each. The only ATF I bought was when I rebuilt the transmissions, the 68 at about 125,000 miles and the 72 closer to 150,000 miles.

[RX in NC]

Bull (to monarch's last post). Most American and Japanese automatic transmissions can routinely go 60,000 to 80,000 miles or more with no problems on the original factory fluid fill of automatic transmission fluid, and most go far more miles than that. In more than 36 years of driving 20-some vehicles, I've never had a transmission failure until this RX300 came along.

jgr7 may have a valid point by suspecting faulty components within some of these RX300 transmissions.

This argument could go indefinitely, and probably will. In the meantime, change that Type IV fluid regularly if you own an RX300....

[bluestu]

Bull (to monarch's last post). Most American and Japanese automatic transmissions can routinely go 60,000 to 80,000 miles or more with no problems on the original factory fluid fill of automatic transmission fluid, and most go far more miles than that. In more than 36 years of driving 20-some vehicles, I've never had a transmission failure until this RX300 came along.

jgr7 may have a valid point by suspecting faulty components within some of these RX300 transmissions.

This argument could go indefinitely, and probably will. In the meantime, change that Type IV fluid regularly if you own an RX300....

Yes, change the freakin fluid, PLEASE!!! That being the point, take note that most people never change their transmission fluid at all which results in most of the premature failures. There are exceptions such as yourself. Maybe Lexus got a bad batch of parts or wrong parts as in the case of the air flow sensors. In your case, Lexus should have been held totally accountable for all parts and labor. Car companies realize that most owners will not bother having their transmissions serviced. That would explain the Lexus 70k mile warranty. If they wanted them to last longer, they would service them correctly and more frequently. There's a lot more money to be made selling rebuilt transmissions vs. fluid changes.

[jgr7]

Faulty components makes the most sense to me, I would say hard driving but there are members here that can verify good driving habits and still have failure. Also the amount of failed transmissions seems to low to be a design flaw. Remember I think it is a design miss application or faulty components not a design flaw.

Would any of you say that the early to mid 90s Jeep Cherokee and family had a design flaw? I can remember these years having a bad reputation for blowing transmissions. I knew 3 people that blew them. A guy I work with had his Dodge mini van in the Dodge dealer shop for a bad Transmission and just about all the cars they were working on were Caravans and Cherokees.

Jeff

[monarch]

Okay, just how do you address the obvious conflict between what the owners manual, written by and under the guidance of the factory engineering team, states vs the newly required 15,000 mile interval??

Absent an initial design flaw, how do you get from "no service required" to 10 ATF flush and drain actions in 150,000 miles? A typo in the manual, maybe...??

The Scheduled Maintenance Guide of Toyotas sold in America since about the mid-80's dscribes only the minimum service frequency intervals necessary to keep the new car powertrain warranty in effect, not the optimum intervals for really long component life. Ditto in regard to the note found on the RX, ES, LS, etc transmission fluid dipstick that says "Fluid does not require changing under normal driving conditions."

The first scheduled automatic transmission service is at 30,000 miles at which time both the fluid level and condition must be checked and the fluid in the pan changed if it is visibly deteriorated. Same thing at 60,000 miles. In the vast majority of cases, this minimum amount of transmission maintenance will get a RX transmission over the 6 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty hurdle, hence from corporate Lexus's standpoint, the transmission is not defectively designed.

Corporate Lexus does not have a "newly required 15,000 mile interval". That's simply a dealer suggestion. However, corporate Lexus DOES SAY, in the new car service booklet that "your dealer may suggest more maintenance services or more frequent maintenance."

I think the 15,000 mile dealer suggestion is made in the spirit of helping RX owners obtain much longer transmission life than 6 years / 70,000 miles. I don't think it is made in the sprit of helping the dealer avoid a transmission warranty repair within the 6 year / 70,000 mile period. Virtually all car makers have a pretty much standardized maintenance schedule despite the reality that fluids and lubes and internally lubricated parts inside different transmissions deteriorate at different rates.

[wwest]

Okay, just how do you address the obvious conflict between what the owners manual, written by and under the guidance of the factory engineering team, states vs the newly required 15,000 mile interval??

Absent an initial design flaw, how do you get from "no service required" to 10 ATF flush and drain actions in 150,000 miles? A typo in the manual, maybe...??

The Scheduled Maintenance Guide of Toyotas sold in America since about the mid-80's dscribes only the minimum service frequency intervals necessary to keep the new car powertrain warranty in effect, not the optimum intervals for really long component life. Ditto in regard to the note found on the RX, ES, LS, etc transmission fluid dipstick that says "Fluid does not require changing under normal driving conditions."

The first scheduled automatic transmission service is at 30,000 miles at which time both the fluid level and condition must be checked and the fluid in the pan changed if it is visibly deteriorated. Same thing at 60,000 miles. In the vast majority of cases, this minimum amount of transmission maintenance will get a RX transmission over the 6 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty hurdle, hence from corporate Lexus's standpoint, the transmission is not defectively designed.

Corporate Lexus does not have a "newly required 15,000 mile interval". That's simply a dealer suggestion. However, corporate Lexus DOES SAY, in the new car service booklet that "your dealer may suggest more maintenance services or more frequent maintenance."

I think the 15,000 mile dealer suggestion is made in the spirit of helping RX owners obtain much longer transmission life than 6 years / 70,000 miles. I don't think it is made in the sprit of helping the dealer avoid a transmission warranty repair within the 6 year / 70,000 mile period. Virtually all car makers have a pretty much standardized maintenance schedule despite the reality that fluids and lubes and internally lubricated parts inside different transmissions deteriorate at different rates.

NOT!!

When my ATF started showing contamination and smelling burned at only 38,000 miles I immediately fired off an email to Lexus customer satisfaction inquiries. I recieved an immediate response indicating that I should contact my dealer for updated advice on servicing my transaxle.

My immediate email response to that was " Yes, like I"m going to let the fox into the hen house". In return I was advised that the 15,000 mile flush and refill recommeded by the dealer was on the advice of corporate.

Insofar as I am aware my mother raised no idiots and if GW is a relative he's a very distant one.

[lenore]

Ok, than corporate does concede to the 15k flushes, oh boy, at $180 per flush the Lexus owner is sucking it up big time. Give me a break Monarch, they have a problem and are desperately trying to hide it. This smells big time. Lexus should provide the flushes on our $40k cars for that little failure to inform the buyer of their problem ridden transmission. Honda Accura did..... Have you owners filed your complaint with the NHTS board on the internet today? You will need the vin # of the vehicle and a short paragraph of How Lexus missinformed you of the Proper maintenance schedule in the owners booklets to make your misserable transmission last longer.

[monarch]

NOT!! When my ATF started showing contamination and smelling burned at only 38,000 miles I immediately fired off an email to Lexus customer satisfaction inquiries. I recieved an immediate response indicating that I should contact my dealer for updated advice on servicing my transaxle. My immediate email response to that was " Yes, like I"m going to let the fox into the hen house". In return I was advised that the 15,000 mile flush and refill recommeded by the dealer was on the advice of corporate.

Yes, advice from corporate Lexus presumably made in the spirit of helping RX300 owners like yourself obtain much longer transmission life than 6 years / 70,000 miles. But corporate has never required owners to adhere to a "15,000 mile flush and refill" to keep the 6 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty in effect. Indeed, the scheduled maintenance guides of the 2004-2006 RX330's specifies a fluid level and condition check every 30,000 miles just like the early '00 RX300's did.The 2006 models also have the same (admittedly confusing and misleading) note on the transmission fluid dipstick that says: "fluid does not require changing under normal driving conditions." Again, I believe this minimum service frequency advice is intended to instruct owners about the bare minimum amount of preventive maintenance required to keep the 6 year / 70,000 mile powertrain warranty in effect.

I think corporate Nissan has always done a clearer job than Toyota of explaining maintenance requirements. For example, if you had purchased an Infiniti FX35 you'd find corporate Infiniti requires the same minimum "inspect fluid level and condition at 30,000 miles" that corporate Lexus does of the RX300. But unlike Lexus, Infiniti goes a step beyond and provides a "Premium Maintenance Schedule" for owners who desire to obtain maximum component life. The corporate Infiniti Premium Maintenance Schedule recommends a "total transmission fluid replacement (fluid exchange) every 30,000 miles.

[monarch]

Over 1,500 people are members of the toyotahighlanderclub@yahoogroups.com discussion group so I decided to search the archives of that group using the search words "transmission failed" transmission failure" and "AWD transmission". I did not find a single post about any transmission failures. Just posts about the usual hesitation on acceleration issues.

[bluestu]

Monarch,

Nice research info.. Sure beats all the speculations.

[tmhtmh]

Over 1,500 people are members of the toyotahighlanderclub@yahoogroups.com discussion group so I decided to search the archives of that group using the search words "transmission failed" transmission failure" and "AWD transmission". I did not find a single post about any transmission failures. Just posts about the usual hesitation on acceleration issues.

Again, some deception by Monarch. This time he's actually been a bit clever in his silly post....

The Highlander came out in 2001, not 1998/99 like the RX300. Most of the tranny failure discussed in ALL RX300 forums are in the 70k+ milage range. The average vehicle sees about 12,000 mi./yr. This puts most of the OLDEST Highlanders around 60k so far. Add that to the specific search terms and you can see why his search came up nil.

Also, because the 99/00 RX design was such a problem, there may have been some changes to the RX300 in its THIRD model year which is the FIRST model year for the Highlander.

Sorry, Monarch, I caught you again!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wwest]

Over 1,500 people are members of the toyotahighlanderclub@yahoogroups.com discussion group so I decided to search the archives of that group using the search words "transmission failed" transmission failure" and "AWD transmission". I did not find a single post about any transmission failures. Just posts about the usual hesitation on acceleration issues.

Only problem is....

When did the Highlander first arrive in the marketplace...??

[monarch]

The Toyota Highlander was introduced in 2001. Far more Highlanders are sold than RX's, hence more have accumulated over 100,000 miles to date. Here's are current for sale ads that can be found at cars.com:

2001 Toyota Highlander $19,999 111,759 miles Payless Car Sales

2001 Toyota Highlander $17,595 100,430 miles Seaview Chevrolet Pontiac GMC

2001 Toyota Highlander $16,995 112,844 miles Saturn of Beechmont

2001 Toyota Highlander $15,475 101,362 miles Woodbridge Public Auto Auction

2001 Toyota Highlander $15,218 104,892 miles Gulf South Automotive Sales

2001 Toyota Highlander $14,995 116,640 miles Landmark Motors Inc.

2001 Toyota Highlander $15,218 104,892 miles Gulf South Automotive Sales Inc

2001 Toyota Highlander $15,988 124,202 miles Thompson's Toyota

2001 Toyota Highlander $14,950 108,082 miles Daytona Toyota

2001 Toyota Highlander $13,995 112,870 miles Hendrick Honda

2001 Toyota Highlander $13,990 126,891 miles M&M Auto Sales of Waldorf, Inc

2001 Toyota Highlander $13,900 120,056 miles Powdersville Motors

2001 Toyota Highlander $12,995 112,756 miles Hilltop Nissan

2001 Toyota Highlander $12,900 100,000 miles Classified Ad

2001 Toyota Highlander $12,500 121,000 miles Individual Seller

2001 Toyota Highlander $11,995 222,358 miles Country Hill Motors,

2001 Toyota Highlander $10,850 145,000 miles A-1 Plus Auto Center Inc.

2001 Toyota Highlander -- 116,147 miles Claremont Toyota

2001 Toyota Highlander -- 129,500 miles West Kendall Toyota

[tmhtmh]

Far more Highlanders are sold than RX's, hence more have accumulated over 100,000 miles to date. Here's are current for sale ads that can be found at cars.com:

oops.....Monarch forgot I watch him and his misinformation in this forum. Here we go again......

Yes, there are 37 100k+ Highlanders on cars.com. BUT........ there are 127 100k+ RX300s on cars.com. Hense, I guess your latest "proof" goes the way of all your other "proof".

Never mind the fact that having 37 Highlaners for sale that are 100k+ miles adds absolutely NOTHING to the discussion so his post really needed no reply..... It's still fun to factually outwit Monarch AGAIN.

C'mon Monarch, THAT'S all you have?!?!?!?!?!? Too easy.

[monarch]

the fact that having 127 100k+ mile RX300s RX300's for sale on cars.com adds absolutely NOTHING to the discussion

Well if you are correct about there being 127, 100,000+ mile RX300's for sale on car.com right now, then reasonably that means there are many thousands of 100,000+ mile working RX300's still in service that are not for sale.

Now consider how many of these many thousands of 100,000+ mile RX owners have publicly complained about transmission failure on internet forums or to the NTHA? Answer: roughly a dozen owners. I think this data suggests, as jrg7 proposed earlier, that the transmission failure rate of the 100K+ mile RX300's is small in relation to the number of 100K+ mile RX300's on the road.

[lenore]

You can not make presumptions like that, many owners do not participate on these internet forums, Maybe many of them experienced the failures and dont want a second round of financial failure. We could drive this in the ground. But it is obvious that there is a problem if Lexus corporate and the dealerships recommend under the table a 15k flush.

[tmastres]

Faulty components makes the most sense to me, I would say hard driving but there are members here that can verify good driving habits and still have failure.

With the fear of jinxing myself I'd say I'm falling into this line of thinking as well. I certainly agree that changing the fluid often "seems" like a logical thing to do but I've only changed mine once in 90k miles. In fact I just had the 90k service and wanted to include it in that service but my Mech said the fluid still looked pretty good and suggested waiting a few more months (for when I'm going to be in again for some other work). Currently my transmission shifts fine and feels fine in all aspects of operation. I believe someone on this list is actually on their third transmission in under 100k. Well isnt that a suggestion that maybe its not the frequency of fluid changes thats the problem? I really doubt most RX owners deviate from the service schedule (which we all know says inspect not change trans fluid) and we also know that several people on the list have chaned the fluid more frequently only to have their trannys fail anyway. I realize this isn't an "answer" to the tranny failure question and I do respect those who believe its the fluid, I'm just not so sure of that myself.

[lenore]

If Lexus of America would get off the dime and tell us what the improvements were and provide some sort of retrofit to the older 99 RX to try to aleviate our distrust and uneasiness in reliability it would go a long way. I am on my third transmission, however the second one was defective from day one off the dealership. It took me two months and lots of Lexus garage time to get them to replace the bad one, which was driving my wife crazy, and making it very unsafe in commute traffic down Watt Ave. in Sacramento. Why cant Lexus own up and provide some relief like Honda/Accura did on their MDX and Honda? It is because they do not want the PR of even one bad mistake in their quest for greatness. but they wont stand behind their product either. The consumer bites it in the end. Each week more failures roll in to this site, as people learn of their catrosphic failure that cost them more than a used Honda to replace. Give me a break, there is a problem, It is probably software and hardware related to the shift as West says. Given there may be a vendor problem with the Clutch plates or even the gears when such high loads, and heat breakdown the components. HAVE YOU FILED A COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTS board today Lexus owners of the RX300 that have failed????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[monarch]

You can not make presumptions like that, many owners do not participate on these internet forums, Maybe many of them experienced the failures

Maybe. Maybe not. There may be an objective way to find out. Of the dozens of 1999 RX300's for sale at cars.com with over 100,000 miles, I could answer the for sale ads and query the owners or car dealers to find out whether or not the transmission has been replaced.

[tmhtmh]

You can not make presumptions like that, many owners do not participate on these internet forums, Maybe many of them experienced the failures

Maybe. Maybe not. There may be an objective way to find out. Of the dozens of 1999 RX300's for sale at cars.com with over 100,000 miles, I could answer the for sale ads and query the owners or car dealers to find out whether or not the transmission has been replaced.

Good idea, Monarch. I'm quite sure that we'd all trust your honesty in reporting what you found out. Your honest approach to this subject on this board has earned you the respect of all!

Hey, I have a better idea.....Let's call Toyota and ask them directly if the RX300 has a transmission design problem! I'm sure we'll get an eaqually honest answer.

Pleeeeease give it up already, dude. You're getting tiresome.