Sludge In The Transmission Pan.

[backwoods lex]

My 2000 ES has 91K, and I usually do a drain and fill on the transmission every 3-6K. I know that that is overkill for preventive maintenance, but the transmission failures on the ES scare me so much. I dropped the pan for the first time last night, and there was sludge in the bottom of the pan (about 1/16 of an inch) and the magnets were saturated. I've regularly changed the fluids, but never pulled the pan off before this. What kind of condition do you guys think that the transmission is in? Should I have any worries?

Also, just had the timing belt changed. I kept the old belt and looked at it and noticed that it was in very good condition. But I also noticed it said Toyota on it. Does the original belt say Toyota on it, or has it been previously replaced. It seems like a lot of parts say Toyota (windows, sunroof, parts under hood). Thanks for any help guys.

[lenore]

If you have never dropped the pan, that may very well be normal, As long as the fluid has always looked good, you are probably ok.... And yes the timing belt says toyota, and mine also was in very good shape at 96k on my RX300. Good luck

[mburnickas]

My 2000 ES has 91K, and I usually do a drain and fill on the transmission every 3-6K. I know that that is overkill for preventive maintenance, but the transmission failures on the ES scare me so much. I dropped the pan for the first time last night, and there was sludge in the bottom of the pan (about 1/16 of an inch) and the magnets were saturated. I've regularly changed the fluids, but never pulled the pan off before this. What kind of condition do you guys think that the transmission is in? Should I have any worries?

Also, just had the timing belt changed. I kept the old belt and looked at it and noticed that it was in very good condition. But I also noticed it said Toyota on it. Does the original belt say Toyota on it, or has it been previously replaced. It seems like a lot of parts say Toyota (windows, sunroof, parts under hood). Thanks for any help guys.

So you drain the ATF more then what is stated for an engine oil change in the book???? But 3 to 6 is not overkill it is a complete waste of time and money.

Sludge in a pan is normal to some degree. That is why they have the magnets to make the sludge (metal) stick to the pan and not float around.

Color means zero to me. Smell the fluid. If it smells burnt, OH BOY! If smells new, you are fine. Everyone gets freaked about colors of fluids. Unless you are superman color means nothing to the eyes. Now an oil testig, that means something. My ATf fluid (amsoil is going on over 30K miles, smells new and yes looks like it came right out of the bottle.

[Toysrme]

Normal. Mine was clean, but I have a killer ATF schedule. Normally I either flush every year, or drain the pan every oil change (I'm with you).

If you see black particles, that's the clutch & brake material - that stuff wears, if there's tons of it, ya that's bad. If you see metal, that means you're killing the gears.

I'm with MK. Color means crap most of the time. You can have the nastyest looking oil, or ATF & it's perfectly fine, and you can have a nice color, that is just completely shot. Color is just a nice quick refference. But if it smells burnt.... You'll want to hurl if you get a good lung full!

[Chip]

interesting discussion. I have 02 ES 300 with 71 K on it. Every 30,000 I have been just pulling the plug on the tranny pan and adding back 4 qts of new fluid. Question- I have so far been going and paying the dealer

$ 4.00 per quart for the Toyota Type IV Fluid they told me I had to have... I don't find any after market or parts house brand ATF that says it meets this spec. Has anyone just used regular ATF like Dex III/Merc in the Lexus tranny?

[monarch]

My 2000 ES has 91K, and I usually do a drain and fill on the transmission every 3-6K. I know that that is overkill for preventive maintenance, but the transmission failures on the ES scare me so much. I dropped the pan for the first time last night, and there was sludge in the bottom of the pan (about 1/16 of an inch) and the magnets were saturated.

Are you the original and only owner of the vehicle or did you buy it used?

What do you mean when you say the magnets were "saturated"? If the magnets were clearly visible in the pan and not buried with teaspoon full amounts of wear debris then everything sounds normal to me. A 1/16" layer of grey material on the bottom of the pan is also usually normal.

A thick, 1/8" - 1/4" layer of grey material that could be scooped up with a tablespoon coupled with magnets nearly buried with wear debris would be worrisome, but a condition like that would be extremely unlikely given your frequent fluid change regime (unless the vehicle was purchased in used condition)

It is important to get the fluid level correct after replacing the fluid. Many owners fill the transmission to the HOT mark on the dipstick when the fluid temp is only tepid warm and may mean the transmission will be overfilled when the fluid temp is actually hot. To compensate for this, I fill to a point inbetween the Cold and Hot marks when the fluid is at room temperature and then check the fluid level after driving the car at least

20 miles / 20 minutes to verify the fluid level is within (but not above) the Hot range.

I believe the Toyota engineers and members of the Toyota 400,000 mile club would congratulate you on your aggressive preventive maintenance. Clearly you understand that in order for preventive maintenance to be fully effective in preventing wear, transmission fluid must be changed BEFORE it becomes really dark or burnt.

[Toysrme]

Chip Post Toyota Type-II fluid is NOT compatible with Dexron III, and Toyota specifically advises against it in the TT-III, and TT-IV TSB's when those fluids became avalible.

[mburnickas]

I believe the Toyota engineers and members of the Toyota 400,000 mile club would congratulate you on your aggressive preventive maintenance. Clearly you understand that in order for preventive maintenance to be fully effective in preventing wear, transmission fluid must be changed BEFORE it becomes really dark or burnt.

Unless there is a reason to do it so soon, you are wasting your money. Tests the fluid at 3K miles or 10K miles and if it (tranny) is running fine, you are wasting $$$$.

Then again why would you do this drain so soon; even before the engine oil is due and not per Lexus design standards (manual). But of you have that much time to kill, fluid to worry about, etc.........

Your "Toyota 400,000 mile club" must have lots of free time and need something to do I guess.

Or are you using a cheaper ATF fluid......

I think my 35 to 45K drains on ATF and 12K drains on oil are too short (and I test).

[backwoods lex]

Yes, I bought the car used with 50K on it. I checked all of the fluids before buying and everything appeared to be in good condition, including the transmission fluid. I do have one concern though. When draining the transmission, I noticed the bolt had been slightly stripped like someone had tried to use a different tool other than the allen wrenchto remove it. I take great care of it, but I hope that the guy before me didn't take it to jiffy lube or some place like that where they replaced the fluid with Dexron (as they offered me-no thanks) and also replaced his flux capacitor for $79.99.

On a side note, now I know why toyota wants $130.00 for the job. It is easy to do, but a lot of elbow grease to remove the 17-18 bolts in 30 degree weather on ramps. After I had all of the bolts off and realized that they also had to go back on, I went inside my house and put a pistol in my mouth. Then my girlfriend reminded me that life insurance does not pay if I commit suicide, so I went back out and finished the job. I do plan to clean the pan more often though.

Replacing fluid so often probably is a waste, but it is also cheap insurance. $16.00 at the toyota dealer, or $5000.00 at the lexus dealer. I know that there will always be fresh fluid in my car with frequent drains.

[mburnickas]

Replacing fluid so often probably is a waste, but it is also cheap insurance. $16.00 at the toyota dealer, or $5000.00 at the lexus dealer. I know that there will always be fresh fluid in my car with frequent drains.

So you spend $96 for 6 drains or 36K miles? Wow, I spend $21 using synthetic during same time.....

I hope you know about atf and if you are really getting "cheap isurnace vs wasting $$$$$". Did you benchmark these drains?

[monarch]

Yes, I bought the car used with 50K on it.

Ah...that likely explains the grey deposit on the bottom of the transmission oil pan. Next time you drop the transmission oil pan - say in another 50,000 miles - the bottom of the pan is almost guaranteed to be clean because of your frequent changes. The magnets will still have some buildup, but that's normal and typical.

[Lexusfreak]

interesting discussion. I have 02 ES 300 with 71 K on it. Every 30,000 I have been just pulling the plug on the tranny pan and adding back 4 qts of new fluid. Question- I have so far been going and paying the dealer

$ 4.00 per quart for the Toyota Type IV Fluid they told me I had to have... I don't find any after market or parts house brand ATF that says it meets this spec. Has anyone just used regular ATF like Dex III/Merc in the Lexus tranny?

I did a drain & fill in august with Amsoil synthetic ATF which is compatible with Toyota Type IV fluid (same as mburn uses.....mburn correct me if I am wrong).......my tranny is shifting just fantastic! Amsoil & Toyota IV are the only 2 tranny fluids I know of that is safe to use in our trannys. B) Here is some more info on the Amsoil ATF.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

[mburnickas]

interesting discussion. I have 02 ES 300 with 71 K on it. Every 30,000 I have been just pulling the plug on the tranny pan and adding back 4 qts of new fluid. Question- I have so far been going and paying the dealer

$ 4.00 per quart for the Toyota Type IV Fluid they told me I had to have... I don't find any after market or parts house brand ATF that says it meets this spec. Has anyone just used regular ATF like Dex III/Merc in the Lexus tranny?

I did a drain & fill in august with Amsoil synthetic ATF which is compatible with Toyota Type IV fluid (same as mburn uses.....mburn correct me if I am wrong).......my tranny is shifting just fantastic! Amsoil & Toyota IV are the only 2 tranny fluids I know of that is safe to use in our trannys. B) Here is some more info on the Amsoil ATF.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

Yes you are correct on both. The fluid type and the smoothes it gives. The fluids beats most fluids out there for what it does.