Transmission Has Failed At 99k!

ArnoldsLex · November 7, 2005

I have a 2001 RX300 and the Trans is going out. It is my wifes SUV. I am very mechanical, restore cars have done major engine swaps and the like so I know this is serious. Damn, you buy supposedly the best SUV on the road even used and you expect it to last since it is a Japanese Toyota!! I mean 42000.00 car that is only 4 years old crapping its trans? NO excuses!!!! Fu%#$@@$))!!!!!!!!!!

What I have learnd is that there is some problems becasue of the lifetitme Trans fluid the manual say it has. I have heard that the dealers have retracted this and recommend a change every 15k! It had 73k on it when I bought or as they say " Not evne Broke in for a Toyota", " Hell it go 250k without a problem". My butt!

Be leary folks if you have not changed your fluid. What I have read is that for the sake a fuel economy the trans has some engineering problems with the shifting where it hesitates to long in between shifts which cause excessive wear. I notice the luxury soft shift since I drive a Mustang GT that I modified the Auto trans to shift harder and quicker. It felt almost screwed up. Well it is!!! The newer 330's are now dethrottled between shifts by wire to eleviate this problem.

Has anyone else had this problem? How much to replace? I guesstimate 3000.00?

Any JDM sources out there or whatever?

Damn, this just *BLEEP*es me off!!!!!!!!

monarch · November 7, 2005

You bought the RX when it had 73,000 miles. Did you review the preventive maintenance service records in detail before buying? Did you personally meet the original owners(s) and interview them about their driving habits (easy going vs. leadfoot). Did you ever personally inspect the level and condition of the transmission anytime between 73,000 - 99,000 miles?

ArnoldsLex · November 7, 2005

You bought the RX when it had 73,000 miles. Did you review the preventive maintenance service records in detail before buying? Did you personally meet the original owners(s) and interview them about their driving habits (easy going vs. leadfoot). Did you ever personally inspect the level and condition of the transmission anytime between 73,000 - 99,000 miles?

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I just read Lenores thread about all the failures. I read your reply and I know you' re a flag waiver for Lexus. Have you had to put 4000.00 bucks in yours yet? Sounds like you just think you have the all answers or shall I say all the excuses. Do you work at dealership? You sound like you do. I am now wanting to friggin strangle the engineers that have done this shiot job. I am an experienced car guy enthusiast, not your typical Lexus owner big bucks, never get there hands greasy person. I have done numerous restores. Try changing out a FWD trans in your home garage. Done it. I inspect and take care of my cars. I did notice the fluid looked brown but the owners manual said it was a lifetime fluid. It did not smell burn't and I just wrote it off as a normal, a special fluid? God i wish I gone with my gut and changed it. But according to allot of people out there and not just on this site nothing would have helped. I bought from an Auto Auction. I found the previous owners insurance card and called him. He was leasing it and had driven for his outside sales car and mostly highway. I though that is great 9 (easy driving) and it explained why it had no door dings on it. No Mom trips back and for to the to the mall.

Anyway I am screwed especially being the second owner even if there was Recall!

You know though I felt very secure in buying one the best rated used SUV's out there beut I apparently I was duped!

TunedRX300 · November 7, 2005

I would try to talk to Lexus service manager about your failed tranny. Every dealer has certain amount of $ for goodwill replacement. Acura has a tranny recall on TL, CL and MDX, extended powertrain warranty to 7 years/ 100K but some members >100K are either got replaced for free, pay for labor only, or get a discount on a $5000 tranny.

If all else fails, call Lexus Corporate Customer Service.

Last, someone posted this rebuilt shop on the Acura forum. Hopefully with your negotiation skills, data obtained from this forum, and a little luck, you will never need it.

http://www.levelten.com/store/import/packages/lexus.htm

SKperformance · November 7, 2005

For all the posts you read did you notice what i found is the problem and the fix by cleaning it?

You just might be able to get her running again with no more issues.

Find a nice small filter like the ones i posted before as i would not reccomned the massive one lenore added.

lenore · November 7, 2005

If it is not shifting all gears, the valve body assembly may well have metal debris in its passageways. I am so sorry to hear about your failure. Contact Lexus of America anyway, they need to hear how bad it is out there, 34t6g#$%^ they are such wonderful folks I am sure they will give a kind ear to your problem. SK and I both have filter solutions, he dissagrees with mine, but I do not knock his or mine. So far it is working well, and I must say the fluid actually appears to be looking better.

LexKid630 · November 7, 2005

You're lucky you got 99,000 miles out of that thing, you did well! LOL When it went out on my old 99 rx300 it was a $4400 job.

The transmissions on the rx300 are horrible. They're just time bombs waiting to go off. That's just my opinion.

wwest · November 8, 2005

Draining and refilling the ATF on a regular basis will NOT prevent these premature failures, it will only delay them. Personally I would not recommend anyone bother to drain and refill until and unless the ATF begins to appear brownish, burnt, and/or smells burnt.

My 2001 AWD RX300 came with an external ATF cooler as a part of the tow package and you might note that there is a diagnostic indication on the dash that lights up if the ATF begins to overheat. My indicator has never come on and the towing capability has never been used yet my ATF was looking and smelling burnt at only 40,000 miles.

I firmly believe that these premature transaxle failures are the result of a poor firmware design embedded within the engine/transaxle ECU to increase fuel economy, reduce emissions, and reduce the potential for loss of directional control in a FWD or front biased AWD vehicle during coastdown situations on a slippery roadbed surface.

ABS will do a very fine job of keeping your front wheels rotating during actual braking, even light braking if the surface is slippery enough. But what's to keep those wheels rotating if the transaxle drops into 1st gear in that very same circumstance?

You may notice that prior to 04 (RX series) the transaxle would upshift just before coming to a full stop and then only downshift into 1st gear if/when the vehicle comes to a full and complete stop. This, upshifting, also happens at road speed if you fully release the gas pedal.

So, what do you suppose happens if I decide not to come to a full and complete stop and want to accelerate quickly and/or rapidly while that transaxle is in an inappropreate HIGH gear?

The transaxle clutches SLIP for a few hundred milliseconds, that's what!

For 04 and later Lexus simply uses the new e-throttle system to prevent the engine from developing torque until the transaxle has time to downshift into the most appropreate gear given the position of the gas pedal.

So, no more premature transaxle failures due to clutch frictional surface wear. And what does it matter to Toyota or Lexus if not just a few people are injuried or even killed due to accidents arising from a 1 or 2 second engine torque delay.

All they will say is "prove it to the judge!".

lenore · November 8, 2005

We all have our theories, but the engineers from Lexus or the transmission provider knew the limitations of this transmission with engine and vehicle weight.

What we have is a car company that is not willing to step up to the plate and back their product like Honda/Accura did. We can't even get a adequate response from Lexus because they will not commit to their poor design, and as Barnum said their is a sucker born every minute. To bad we are on the receiving end, eating thousands of dollars for a vehicle failure that is not normal, no matter how much you service it. As a group I ask that you put pressure on Lexus when you feel concerned enough to do so. I personally feel cheated, I could have bought any number of other vehicles that do not experience such failures at such low mileage.

Oh well Lexus, you suck! I will continue to destroy any potential future customers as long as I am taking the short end of the stick. I feel so sorry for all my fellow owners of the RX300AWD. Good Luck. I will continue to participate in this forum as I find it educational and I enjoy giving my expertise when I can.

bluestu · November 8, 2005

I was talking to one of the mechanics at Toyota just yesterday and he verified that the RX300's transaxle holds around 16 quarts of fluid. The transmission, torque converter, and front differential share the same fluid. He suggested having it totally flushed at least every 30kmi.. He said the drain and fill replaces about 3 quarts of dirty fluid, which is useless in my opinion. Toyota and Lexus won't perform a flush because they don't have a flush machine for Type IV fluid. Great!!! Fortunately, I've found a shop that does.

RX in NC · November 8, 2005

In my opinion, it's better to delay premature transmission failure than it is to just accept it by never changing your fluid. If changing your fluid every 30,000 miles causes you to get 120,000 miles out of your factory transmission rather than your transmission blowing up at 60,000 miles because it's still running around with the factory fill, that's a damn good trade-off in anyone's book. And as simple as this job is, ANYONE can do it themself as long as they have a 10 millimeter hex wrench, some clean rags, and a catch basin.

Some folks swear by flushing, but bear in mind that flushing always introduces greater risk because you can dredge up particles and shavings and pull them back through the entire system where they can lodge once again after they've already settled around the drain plug magnet, ready for easy removal when you unscrew the two plugs to drain the transaxle.

But whether you decide to drain-and-fill or flush, you're better off than you would be if you never did either one. RX300 AWD transmissions are weak and susceptible to failure, and periodic fresh fluid is required to give you a fighting chance to get decent mileage out of your transmission before it dies.

But the real moral of the story is this - once bitten, twice shy. During future SUV purchase considerations, stay the hell away from RX300 all-wheel-drive vehicles. Don't repeat your mistake, learn from it instead.

lenore · November 8, 2005

ditto

mikey00 · November 8, 2005

I was talking to one of the mechanics at Toyota just yesterday and he verified that the RX300's transaxle holds around 16 quarts of fluid. The transmission, torque converter, and front differential share the same fluid. He suggested having it totally flushed at least every 30kmi.. He said the drain and fill replaces about 3 quarts of dirty fluid, which is useless in my opinion. Toyota and Lexus won't perform a flush because they don't have a flush machine for Type IV fluid. Great!!! Fortunately, I've found a shop that does.

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It may not be as fortunate as you think that you found a shop willing to flush your trans. As you may already know from reading this forum there are many who believe a flush does more harm then good. A flush machine is a big money maker for the owner. I personally do a drain and fill every 15K, which gets out a little over 4 qts., not just the 3 mentioned above. Here is a quote from a Lexus dealership employee from another forum:

"We at our dealer have the same predicament as far as the what we recommend and what the book in every car says.....It will never be identical but there is a reason our dealer turned down a heavy incentive laiden deal with valvoline to do trans "flushes" to all our vehicles....They offered all equipment for free.....demos of how it works, free "trans fluid kits" to all employees and who knows what kind of kick backs to our GSM and Service Director. They even brought by a signed "guarantee" stating that the flush would not void any warranty and if it did cause a problem, valvoline would take care of it....Guess what? That was months ago and they got a "hell no" in response....

Thanks for the kind words... "

Here is the whole thread if you are interested:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread...nsmission+flush

bluestu · November 8, 2005

What good is it going to do to add 4qts of fresh fluid to the 12qts of dirty fluid that remain after draining. Sounds pretty stupid to me!!! Do what you want, I don't really care. I'm just relaying what I've been told by several Toyota mechanics and transmission specialists.

That's very informative telling us about Valvoline trying to scam Lexus with their flush machines. I think Lexus is scaming everyone by trying to suggest that their Type IV fluid is good for the life of the transmission. I guess that is about 80-100k with any luck. That's about the same for any vehicle that doesn't have the transmission serviced properly.

I've been hearing for years that 4WD/AWD vehicles have a much higher rate of transmission failures than standard transmissions. Maybe that was one of the reasons behind the invention of the flush machine. Toyota and Lexus could incorporate flush machines into their service depts. if they so desired. I'm sure they would rather sell replacement transmissions and charge out the !Removed! to repair them. There's a very good reason why the warranty expires after 70k.

LexKid630 · November 8, 2005

Sorry to go a little of topic, but does anyone think Lexus engineers expected/predicted this to happen to AWD transmissions? Obviously they didn't think it would happen this bad or they wouldn't have sold them, but think they had any "clue" it was a bad design?

Who else here thinks Lexus knew there would be problems before the first rx was even sold?

Just wondering...

lenore · November 8, 2005

I agree LexKid, However it still would have shown how great a car company they were if they back their boo-boos with some compassion.

Honda/Accura did.....where is the marketing backup at Lexus. None.

LexKid630 · November 8, 2005

I agree LexKid, However it still would have shown how great a car company they were if they back their boo-boos with some compassion.
Honda/Accura did.....where is the marketing backup at Lexus. None.

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The excuse Lexus gives is, "It's working as was designed"

I don't understand this but that's their thinking..Pretty much means that that don't feel like paying every rx300 owner to have infinite transmissions if they keep breaking...

Anyway Lexus thinks they're getting away with it, but they're just losing more money in the cars they aren't selling because of their bad service. Even though i experienced the failure on my 99, i bought 2 more rx300 AWD's since then only because i personally think the rx300 is a great car besides the transmission.

I can say that the rx330 is a MUCH better design considering my AWD 2004 has over 70,000 miles and is still working just as it was the day i got it, any my driving habits haven't changed only that i now take the rx330 EVERY DAY for 3 hours, since i no longer have the BMW. NOTHING has broken on it AT ALL. I am EXTREMELY pleased; it's a definite improvement over the 300.

I agree Lexus should have stood up and admited they made a mistake and sold "time bombs" to us when we all thought we were buying a Lexus that should last longer than any other car out there. Not like it will ever happen though, it's too late for that; Lexus already blew it.

The only thing i'm confused about is the fact that some AWD rx300's have over 150k + miles on them and their transmissions are working fine, and some of us at 40,000 miles saw problems... What's the variable that's controlling this!?? LOL. I just don't understand how some could last longer than others.

wwest · November 9, 2005

First, if anyone out there can find a way to cram more than 5 quarts of ATF into an AWD RX300 or RX330 without the dip stick indicating an overfilled condition I will pay them $1000.

At ~40,000 miles I drained and refilled my transaxle using 4 quarts of ATF purchased at Lexus of Bellevue. A few weeks later I noticed that my ATF was looking brownish again. Here on the internet I learned that the 5th quart is trapped in the diff'l and must be drained via a separate drain plug.

So, drain and refill again but this time it took five quarts and now at 50,000 miles my ATF is still pinkish.

If a single dirty quart inadvertantly left in the diff'l can contaminate the 4 new quarts to the level I experienced that why has not the 9 quarts I couldn't drain contaminated the new 5 quart ATF refill?

It takes 16 quarts to FLUSH the transaxle, not to fill to capacity.

How many quarts of brake fluid does it take to flush long enough to be sure ALL of the "contaminated" brake fluid is gone?

Infinite # of quarts.

rlin78 · November 9, 2005

Ok, here's what I did it to get more than 4 quarts of ATF. Drain the ATF from the 2 drain plugs (Tranmission and differential drains) and refill. Then you disconnect the hose that's going to the ATF cooler. Now start your engine, have someone ready to pour more ATF. ATF will start to flow out as soon as the engine starts. Wait till about 2 quarts of ATF pours out, shut down the engine. Pour more ATF into it and start the engine again, shift through all gears and continue to pour more ATF until the ATF coming out of the cooler hose is bright red fresh looking ATF. It took about 10 quarts for me. Shut down the engine and fill ATF to full. Drive around and recheck ATF level. Everyone has been saying the transmission takes about 16 quarts, I wasn't able to verify that.

Now can I collect my $1000 now? :) :cheers:

bartkat · November 9, 2005

This is as close as I expect you're going to get.

bluestu · November 9, 2005

For anyone who is unsure about how much fluid is required to fill the transaxle, why don't you do as I did and talk to Toyota and Lexus service dept.. I've had at least six different techs tell me it takes 16 quarts. Maybe there is a conspiracy to misinform me concerning this issue??? I can't find anyone besides the four or five people on this forum that have encountered any transmission failures with the RX300. Maybe the people here are just sucking on lemons or possibly work for another car company. All I can say for sure is I haven't had a hint of transmission problems from either one of my RX300s, and they both have over 90kmi.. Maybe I'm living on borrowed time???

mikey00 · November 9, 2005

Ok, here's what I did it to get more than 4 quarts of ATF. Drain the ATF from the 2 drain plugs (Tranmission and differential drains) and refill. Then you disconnect the hose that's going to the ATF cooler. Now start your engine, have someone ready to pour more ATF. ATF will start to flow out as soon as the engine starts. Wait till about 2 quarts of ATF pours out, shut down the engine. Pour more ATF into it and start the engine again, shift through all gears and continue to pour more ATF until the ATF coming out of the cooler hose is bright red fresh looking ATF. It took about 10 quarts for me. Shut down the engine and fill ATF to full. Drive around and recheck ATF level. Everyone has been saying the transmission takes about 16 quarts, I wasn't able to verify that.
Now can I collect my $1000 now? :)

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Sounds like what you did was a DIY flush of sorts. You did say you had someone ready to pour ATF. Do you get more than 5 qts if this person does not pour? If you didn't you need to give the $1000 back.

RX in NC · November 9, 2005

All manufacturers expect potential problems when new models are developed, tested, and sold. No laboratory or test track can substitute for what really happens when hundreds of thousands of units are built and sold to the real world where they are exposed to a myriad of driving habits, road conditions, and maintenance habits. Within a couple of years, enough data becomes available to determine which components are going to be more prone to failure.

Manufacturers earn respect and loyal customers by stepping up to the plate to acknowledge and fix the issues that arise in their new models, usually in the form of recalls. They develop a standard fix, train their dealership service departments quickly, announce the recall, and then fastidiously notify their customers. It is then up to the customer to make the arrangements to get the fix accomplished. Recalls are a part of automotive life; they are nothing to be ashamed of. They reflect honesty and the desire to "make it right" for their customers by the automotive industry.

I believe that a major contributing factor to the RX300 AWD transmission failure saga stems from the fact that Toyota essentially built this vehicle off a Camry platform. An SUV is always heavier and more stressed during operation than its car cousin sharing the same platform. I don't think that Toyota took the engineering requirements far enough in the design of the RX from the Camry. Its engine, transmission, and in fact its entire power train were not bulked up sufficiently to raise it to a true SUV level from that of just a stretched Camry.

Some car-to-SUV platform conversions in the industry have been seamless. This one wasn't. And many of us RX300 AWD owners have suffered as a result. None of us are sucking on lemons or work for another car company. We are simply driving flawed vehicles and we want them fixed just as you would, bluestu, if you were in our situation. I battled Lexus and earned a new transmission under warranty for my troubles. Our vehicle has always been babied, I'm doing drain-and-fills every 30,000 miles, and thus far the replacement transmission has outlasted the original one although we've never been pleased with this vehicle's hard shift tendencies. But many other RX300 owners with similar problems have been told by Lexus to essentially go screw themselves. And that's the issue here whether you agree with it or not.

lenore · November 9, 2005

I know it holidays season, but maybe a survey of owners in your area about tranny failures and what mileage would stop this blame on only Five members. I will start taking a impromtu survey and ask about mileage just for grins. Maybe I will meet some nice people (heh heh, they are Lexus owners after all) Anybody want to participate?

bluestu · November 9, 2005

I've already talked to the Toyota and Lexus shops in my area and they haven't heard of anyone having transmission problems with their RX300s. Maybe you should do a survey.