Lexusfreak Posted September 24, 2005 Posted September 24, 2005 Just wondering if anyone knew if the new 2005+ Toyota Avalon with the 3.5L V6 is equipped with a Timing belt or a timing chain? Also, what is the mileage replacement interval (if applicable) Please advise......thanks! B)
monarch Posted September 24, 2005 Posted September 24, 2005 I heard the Avalon's V6 is a slightly reworked version of the V6 used in the 2003 on up Toyota 4Runner which means it uses a timing chain. Toyota has been moving away from timing belts since the late 1990's in favor of maintenance free timing chains. The life of Toyota timing chains varies widely - between 150,000 - 700,000 miles - depending on whether or not the car is driven by a leadfoot driver and if the engine receives regular oil and filter changes.
ArmyofOne Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 IMO, Lexus and higher end toyota cars will always use a belt. for one reason: noise level. a timing belt is FAR quieter than any chain.
SW03ES Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 and if the engine receives regular oil and filter changes. ← What could this possibly have to do with the life of the timing chain/belt?
mburnickas Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 IMO, Lexus and higher end toyota cars will always use a belt. for one reason: noise level. a timing belt is FAR quieter than any chain. ← I agree. Plus a belt breaks less if it breaks.
mburnickas Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 Something I posted on another foums since I had this debate. Belts have their advantages. They're cheaper, quieter, lighter, require no lubrication and easier to replace. They're also better able to handle the longer run necessary for overhead- cam engines. With overhead-cam engines, it has to be 3 or 4 feet long, and for that kind of length, a belt is not only a lot quieter, but more reliable, too. When you use a chain for that kind of length, it's more likely to loosen up, slap around and eventually break. For me I would take a belt over a chain or gear anyday. A belt is cheaper then the damage caused by a belt or chain. For longevity chains are better but do you want to here it etc? Here is a list of there stuff. Model Year Engine Belt/Chain/Gear 4Runner 1990-2000 4 Cylinder Chain 1990-2002 V6 Belt 2003 V6 Chain 2003 V8 Belt Avalon 1995-2003 V6 Belt Camry 1990-2001 All Belt 2002-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 2002-2003 V6 Belt Celica 1990-1999 4 Cylinder Belt 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Corolla 1990-1997 4 Cylinder Belt 1998-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Cressida 1990-1992 L6 Belt Echo 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Highlander 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 2001-2003 V6 Belt Land Cruiser 1990-1992 L6 Gear 1993-1997 L6 Chain 1998-2003 V8 Belt MR2 1990-1995 4 Cylinder Belt MR2 Spyder 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Matrix 2003 4 Cylinder Chain Paseo 1992-1997 4 Cylinder Belt Prius 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain RAV4 1996-2000 4 Cylinder Belt 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Sequoia 2001-2003 V8 Belt Sienna 1998-2004 V6 Belt Solara 1999-2001 4 Cylinder Belt 2002-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 1999-2003 V6 Belt Supra 1990-1998 L6 Belt T100 1993-1998 4 Cylinder Chain 1993-1998 V6 Belt Tacoma 1995-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 1995-2003 V6 Belt Tercel 1990-1998 4 Cylinder Belt Truck 1990-1995 4 Cylinder Chain 1990-1995 V6 Belt Tundra 2000-2003 V6 Belt 2000-2003 V8 Belt
1990LS400 Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 and if the engine receives regular oil and filter changes. ← What could this possibly have to do with the life of the timing chain/belt? ← The double roller timing chains for the three overhead camshaft engined Mercedes I have owned were enclosed in the block and heads and lubed by engine oil. I know this because I completely rebuilt one of the Mercedes engines myself and I did my own valve adjustments and could see the chain when I removed the valve covers. Aren't all OHC timing chains are lubed by the engine oil? Does Toyota do it differently?
mburnickas Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 What could this possibly have to do with the life of the timing chain/belt? ← Well, I think we know where his post is going...Not this again!!!!
monarch Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 ?$?l?W03ES,Sep 25 2005, 01:03 PM] What could this possibly have to do with the life of the timing chain/belt? ← Nothing in regard to the life of a timing belt, but alot in regard to the life of a timing chain. Unlike a timing belts, a Toyota timing chain is lubricated by engine oil. More importantly, timing chains have tensioners that are lubricated by engine oil. Tensioners are the first parts to fail in a Toyota timing chain assembly. When worn or contaminated by specs of dirt, a tensioner can stick in the retracted position causing the chain to run loose and scrape against other parts inside the engine or causing the chain to jump a tooth or two or causing a chain to fall off. Clean engine oil and clean oil and air filters assures many hundreds of thousands of miles of troublefree service from the timing chain tensioner(s)
mburnickas Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 Well then, so now you throw a timing chain into the mix and you want to use Toyota OEM (Mobil dino oil)???? Yet another reason to not use a dino oil. It will shear quicker along with other things. I would love to see a an oil test when a timing chain wears. Nice loads of Fe, Pb, AL, Cu etc.
Lexusfreak Posted September 25, 2005 Author Posted September 25, 2005 Something I posted on another foums since I had this debate.Belts have their advantages. They're cheaper, quieter, lighter, require no lubrication and easier to replace. They're also better able to handle the longer run necessary for overhead- cam engines. With overhead-cam engines, it has to be 3 or 4 feet long, and for that kind of length, a belt is not only a lot quieter, but more reliable, too. When you use a chain for that kind of length, it's more likely to loosen up, slap around and eventually break. For me I would take a belt over a chain or gear anyday. A belt is cheaper then the damage caused by a belt or chain. For longevity chains are better but do you want to here it etc? Here is a list of there stuff. Model Year Engine Belt/Chain/Gear 4Runner 1990-2000 4 Cylinder Chain 1990-2002 V6 Belt 2003 V6 Chain 2003 V8 Belt Avalon 1995-2003 V6 Belt Camry 1990-2001 All Belt 2002-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 2002-2003 V6 Belt Celica 1990-1999 4 Cylinder Belt 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Corolla 1990-1997 4 Cylinder Belt 1998-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Cressida 1990-1992 L6 Belt Echo 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Highlander 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 2001-2003 V6 Belt Land Cruiser 1990-1992 L6 Gear 1993-1997 L6 Chain 1998-2003 V8 Belt MR2 1990-1995 4 Cylinder Belt MR2 Spyder 2000-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Matrix 2003 4 Cylinder Chain Paseo 1992-1997 4 Cylinder Belt Prius 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain RAV4 1996-2000 4 Cylinder Belt 2001-2003 4 Cylinder Chain Sequoia 2001-2003 V8 Belt Sienna 1998-2004 V6 Belt Solara 1999-2001 4 Cylinder Belt 2002-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 1999-2003 V6 Belt Supra 1990-1998 L6 Belt T100 1993-1998 4 Cylinder Chain 1993-1998 V6 Belt Tacoma 1995-2003 4 Cylinder Chain 1995-2003 V6 Belt Tercel 1990-1998 4 Cylinder Belt Truck 1990-1995 4 Cylinder Chain 1990-1995 V6 Belt Tundra 2000-2003 V6 Belt 2000-2003 V8 Belt ← I might have missed it here, but the 2004 & 2005 ES 330 also has a timing belt, correct? B)
monarch Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 Since 1975 Toyota has been building overhead cam engines with long timing chains that are capable of lasting over 600,000 miles when lubricated by ordinary dinosaur oil http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/synb.jpg
mburnickas Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 Since 1975 Toyota has been building overhead cam engines with long timing chains that are capable of lasting over 600,000 miles when lubricated by ordinary dinosaur oil http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/mastertech/synb.jpg ← Here we go again...old pictures that do not mean anything....How many times does it take Saber/Monarch/ whatever else you are called??? Have you ever spent a few dollars to test the oil??? I think not, since you are so stuck on dino.....
monarch Posted September 25, 2005 Posted September 25, 2005 You said: "With overhead-cam engines, it [the timing chain] has to be 3 or 4 feet long... when you use a chain for that kind of length, it's more likely to loosen up, slap around and eventually break." So I showed photographic proof that even 30 years ago Toyota had learned how to build overhead cam engines with 3 foot long timing chain mechanisms that are capable of lasting 600,000 miles. In my own '92 Toyota pickup the chain mechanism lasted 417,670 miles at which time the chain tensioner occassionally started sticking in the retracted position and required replacement. Obviously Toyota learned long ago - before many of the people here were even born - how to build timing chain mechanisms for its overhead cam engines that were extremely durable when lubricated by ordinary dinosaur oil. Out here in California it is routine to still see 1970's overhead cam Toyotas on the road still running their original timing chains.
mburnickas Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 photographic proof??? Are you kidding me :chairshot::chairshot: It is a photo, no more, no less. It is a pictutre showing nothing; a truck with a guy by it. What does it show? Proof of what? that it is an old picture. I love the proof.. It is amusing at best. Proof...:chairshot: I can show a picture of my lawn and say it went 10 million mowings on one sharpening of the blades...Ya sure...proof, I think not. YOu are a classic with this old-school photos though. You need data not just a picture. I picture is worth ZERO without any info (data) to support it. I can show you my car and say it ran on corn oil too. All I need is a picture by your standards.....You are a classic, I need to print this topic out, too funny.
bartkat Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 You "oil test" fans sure do get bent out of shape easy. It doesn't take very long for that stuff to get really really old. :(
Lexusfreak Posted September 26, 2005 Author Posted September 26, 2005 Sorry to have started a tiff here everyone! Let me ask this, what reasons does an automaker decide to use a timing belt over a timing chain &/or vice versa? B)
mburnickas Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 You "oil test" fans sure do get bent out of shape easy. It doesn't take very long for that stuff to get really really old. :( ← out of shape? Are you kidding me..This is laughable at best. Now the All OEM is getting older, big time. So are the picture of dashboards from saber, opps monarch and the pictures of a brake rotor too. It is easy not to except new technology since it requires no thinking. Not even bringing oil into it, there is a reason why some oil are higher priced them others. Make sure you use OEM Power Steering fluids, OEM air, OEM tires, OEM cable straps, OEM fluids, OEM, window cleaner, OEM care care kit, OEM, healights, OEM tools, OEM gas (do they make that???), OEM water for rad..... He pushes OEM more then the Lexus dealers! But the picture as proof is great. What does it prove; again ZERO. If people did some homework they can learn some information; more then posting a picture and saying this and that. Now post a picture with some proof (that is data that supports your claim), then you might have something. Again, add information or data to support your thread. I can get a 2 year old to post a picture and say anything. Toyota has been moving away from timing belts since the late 1990's in favor of maintenance free timing chains.” Are you sure??? Based on the data I found, there are more gear and belts them chains.
indiasfinest Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 I agree. Plus a belt breaks less if it breaks. ← what is that suppse to mean???
mburnickas Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 When a belt breaks, the loose parts from the belt break less or damage less. When a chain breaks, look out. A chain will do more damage then a belt.
VGR Posted September 26, 2005 Posted September 26, 2005 Toyota has a 40 year track record of building overhead cam engines with long timing chains that don't break. Long before a Toyota chain breaks it will rattle loudly which warns the driver the chain tensioner isn't working anymore and needs to be replaced. Two reasons Toyota is switching to timing chains in its newest engine designs are: 1. All it's engines now have variable valve timing which means the valves and pistons will collide and self destruct if the timing belt breaks. Since chains don't break, this catastropic potential problem can be avoided. 2. Toyota Timing chains are maintenance free and very rarely ever need to be replaced. Notice I am constantly specifying TOYOTA timing chains. Those of you who read and learn about timing chains vs timing belts on internet websites or in automotive textbooks need to realize your getting only generic information, not Toyota specific inforrmation. Big difference
Lexusfreak Posted September 27, 2005 Author Posted September 27, 2005 Toyota has a 40 year track record of building overhead cam engines with long timing chains that don't break. Long before a Toyota chain breaks it will rattle loudly which warns the driver the chain tensioner isn't working anymore and needs to be replaced.Two reasons Toyota is switching to timing chains in its newest engine designs are: 1. All it's engines now have variable valve timing which means the valves and pistons will collide and self destruct if the timing belt breaks. Since chains don't break, this catastropic potential problem can be avoided. 2. Toyota Timing chains are maintenance free and very rarely ever need to be replaced. Notice I am constantly specifying TOYOTA timing chains. Those of you who read and learn about timing chains vs timing belts on internet websites or in automotive textbooks need to realize your getting only generic information, not Toyota specific inforrmation. Big difference ← If they had such a good track record, I wonder why they never installed then from the start on the first Lexus models like the LS & ES. Even the current generation ES still has a TB. B)
mburnickas Posted September 27, 2005 Posted September 27, 2005 Toyota has a 40 year track record of building overhead cam engines with long timing chains that don't break. Long before a Toyota chain breaks it will rattle loudly which warns the driver the chain tensioner isn't working anymore and needs to be replaced.Two reasons Toyota is switching to timing chains in its newest engine designs are: 1. All it's engines now have variable valve timing which means the valves and pistons will collide and self destruct if the timing belt breaks. Since chains don't break, this catastropic potential problem can be avoided. 2. Toyota Timing chains are maintenance free and very rarely ever need to be replaced. Notice I am constantly specifying TOYOTA timing chains. Those of you who read and learn about timing chains vs timing belts on internet websites or in automotive textbooks need to realize your getting only generic information, not Toyota specific inforrmation. Big difference ← Saber/Monarch is back under another name...I wonder if there is a rule on logon names? 1) So they did not have variable valve timing back in 1999 here? Next you state, “chains don't break” then on the next line, “very rarely”. So which is it? 2) Define rarely? If it not a big deal until you hare one of the rarely too. Just like 2 hurrancs in the same area is rarely but do happen. If many designed it, it will break. It will take time, but it will break. Any engineer will tell you that.
bartkat Posted September 27, 2005 Posted September 27, 2005 You "oil test" fans sure do get bent out of shape easy. It doesn't take very long for that stuff to get really really old. :( ← out of shape? Are you kidding me..This is laughable at best. Now the All OEM is getting older, big time. So are the picture of dashboards from saber, opps monarch and the pictures of a brake rotor too. It is easy not to except new technology since it requires no thinking. Not even bringing oil into it, there is a reason why some oil are higher priced them others. Make sure you use OEM Power Steering fluids, OEM air, OEM tires, OEM cable straps, OEM fluids, OEM, window cleaner, OEM care care kit, OEM, healights, OEM tools, OEM gas (do they make that???), OEM water for rad..... He pushes OEM more then the Lexus dealers! But the picture as proof is great. What does it prove; again ZERO. If people did some homework they can learn some information; more then posting a picture and saying this and that. Now post a picture with some proof (that is data that supports your claim), then you might have something. Again, add information or data to support your thread. I can get a 2 year old to post a picture and say anything. Toyota has been moving away from timing belts since the late 1990's in favor of maintenance free timing chains.” Are you sure??? Based on the data I found, there are more gear and belts them chains. ← Please remove my quote from your post. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Thanks.
lenore Posted September 27, 2005 Posted September 27, 2005 You "oil test" fans sure do get bent out of shape easy. It doesn't take very long for that stuff to get really really old. :( ← out of shape? Are you kidding me..This is laughable at best. Now the All OEM is getting older, big time. So are the picture of dashboards from saber, opps monarch and the pictures of a brake rotor too. It is easy not to except new technology since it requires no thinking. Not even bringing oil into it, there is a reason why some oil are higher priced them others. Make sure you use OEM Power Steering fluids, OEM air, OEM tires, OEM cable straps, OEM fluids, OEM, window cleaner, OEM care care kit, OEM, healights, OEM tools, OEM gas (do they make that???), OEM water for rad..... He pushes OEM more then the Lexus dealers! But the picture as proof is great. What does it prove; again ZERO. If people did some homework they can learn some information; more then posting a picture and saying this and that. Now post a picture with some proof (that is data that supports your claim), then you might have something. Again, add information or data to support your thread. I can get a 2 year old to post a picture and say anything. Toyota has been moving away from timing belts since the late 1990's in favor of maintenance free timing chains.” Are you sure??? Based on the data I found, there are more gear and belts them chains. ← Please remove my quote from your post. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Thanks. ← Well, you all are just peachy, To throw in a bad chain deal visit the old Jaguar XKE, It had two chains, one which did not have hydralic tensioning, It sucked, and you had to adjust the upper chain every 10 to 15k or else the cams would loose timing and the valves and pistons would kiss each other. My son bought a Toyota Tacoma with 190k with a loose timing chain, forturnately I told him to get more off the deal, ($500 lower) and he and I learned how to change the timing chain and tensioners which were completely worn out. Cost us $90 in parts but educated my 17 year old about changing engine oil. The original owner had not done to good a job of maintaining the vehicle. Chains are great in most vehicles, but yes are a pain to change. My Mercedes 190E chain can be changed from the top without pulling the timing front cover, but that is unusual. Have a great belt/chain day.
Recommended Posts