Power Steering Is Gone.. Need Advice/tips

[smokey0066]

hey guys. My 98 ls400 ps just went today. Its really hard to turn the steering wheel when i'm not movinb but once I get going its okay. The resevoir is full but the fluid is dark. There are no leaks that I know of. The only noises I hear are when I'm sitting still and i try to turn the wheel. It makes a noise like the system is over loaded (kind of like when you're turned the wheel full lock and the ps pump makes that weird noise).. I assume that means my ps pump is shot but I dunno. Don't know too much about this stuff.

I'm bringing it in to the dealer tomorrow 45mins away and I'm going to have to check it out. I know this will be spendy but since they'll be in there working with the ps system what else should i have them fix/look at. Do you think with parts/labor this will break 1k? I figure if its over 1k I'll have to take it somewhere else independant. ALso i did some reading on here today and noticed that this was an issue with the previous generation. Since 98 was the first year of this new generation could there still be some bugs to cause the ps to go out so early?

I called up a couple local shops and they all said its okay to drive it as long as theres fluid in there and I can steer. I'm going to take my time tomorrow morning as I know I won't be able to react quickly to anything. Should i call a flat bed or am i okay?

[RFeldes]

If it drives okay when you are underway i would be suspicious of clogged filters or a weak pump. The little filter under the drivers side is usually the culprit, if the pump is okay. Re-built pump at Advance auto parts $125.00. Clean filter 30 mins. labor. I suggest drain and clean both filters and see if the pump is okay before replacing.

[smokey0066]

If it drives okay when you are underway i would be suspicious of clogged filters or a weak pump. The little filter under the drivers side is usually the culprit, if the pump is okay. Re-built pump at Advance auto parts $125.00. Clean filter 30 mins. labor. I suggest drain and clean both filters and see if the pump is okay before replacing.

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THe thing is yesterday it did it intermitently. I shut the car off and turned it back on and all was fine. I'm just going to take it into the shop as I don't have time to mess with it.

So the dealer should clean the filters if they mess with it right? So i'm looking at minimum a ps pump and filters/seals...

[SKperformance]

I doubt the dealer will clean it , as well i doubt they even know what/that there is a screen ,not a filter.

If you have a loud whining sound then it is either at full pressure or a blockage.

[RFeldes]

Technically speaking, a screen is a filter. But SK is correct they are screens.

[smokey0066]

I doubt the dealer will clean it , as well i doubt they even know what/that there is a screen ,not a filter.

If you have a loud whining sound then it is either at full pressure or a blockage.

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okay assuming the screen is blocked; can I just go in there and clean it out? If they don't know about this screen how would they fix the problem; by just replacing the pump and calling it a day..

I don't trust the stealers either but somethings I just don't know if I can do. I was told if i got air in the system the pump would cavetate and destroy itself. I'm not sure if I want to open up the system if this is a high risk.

I guess you could call the sound a loud whine; but you can't hear it unless the window is open and you're not moving. So from what I've said; no leaks; whining but no movement. you think its a blocked screen.. Anyone got a pdf of where this screen is and tips to work on it? I'd like to know what you guys are talking about at the very least.

[sha4000]

just taking off the cap wont do any harm but if your not going to this yourself def. dont go to the dealer. the guys in this forum will give you some good advice and with that knowledge you can go to a regular shop to get the work done, just make sure the shop has a good reputation

[smokey0066]

So I just dropped off the car. The car drove fine this morning. I spoke with the service advisor and he said they since the problem isnt there they may not find anything wrong.

They also pushed the 60k service which was 720 out the door. +100 for tranny flush. I was just thinking about getting the fluids flushed brakes, coolant, tranny and steering.. but when they broke the price down it was something close to 500 for just those. So for 200 more it would include alot of other things such as allignment; diff fluid, rotation of tires, check over all the hoses/belts, air filters for the motor and cabin..

Depending on the issue with the power steering, if its not too big, I'll probably have this service done as well. Do you guys think its worth it. I'm sure if i sourced it independantly it'd be cheaper but Since its already in the shop and I'm more confident that they know what they're doing vs some shop down the street. I dont know of a good independent lexus service in the twin cities and there are only 2 dealers in this city.

[dcfish]

So I just dropped off the car. The car drove fine this morning. I spoke with the service advisor and he said they since the problem isnt there they may not find anything wrong.

They also pushed the 60k service which was 720 out the door. +100 for tranny flush. I was just thinking about getting the fluids flushed brakes, coolant, tranny and steering.. but when they broke the price down it was something close to 500 for just those. So for 200 more it would include alot of other things such as allignment; diff fluid, rotation of tires, check over all the hoses/belts, air filters for the motor and cabin..

Depending on the issue with the power steering, if its not too big, I'll probably have this service done as well. Do you guys think its worth it. I'm sure if i sourced it independantly it'd be cheaper but Since its already in the shop and I'm more confident that they know what they're doing vs some shop down the street. I dont know of a good independent lexus service in the twin cities and there are only 2 dealers in this city.

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smokey0066, There is a TOYOTA dealer in Anoka, Carlson Toyota 763-754-2948 ask for Scott then tell them that you want Mike tech #409. At least you'll save on labor.

[smokey0066]

Okay They just called back. They said the steering rack is shot and the worm gear is damaged.

I'm not sure what all is in there but they said its semi drivable still but it could go at any time and i'd be in trouble when it went.

they want a little over 2k for a new rack and flush of the system.

I'm taking the car out of there tonight and getting a second opinion.

[smokey0066]

Okay They just called back. They said the steering rack is shot and the worm gear is damaged.

I'm not sure what all is in there but they said its semi drivable still but it could go at any time and i'd be in trouble when it went.

they want a little over 2k for a new rack and flush of the system.

I'm taking the car out of there tonight and getting a second opinion.

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DC FISH I would like to talk to you but I can't PM for some reason. can you email me.

chuckers@gmail.com

and I can give you my number. I'm going to pick up the car tonight and bring it up back to blaine. I'll swing by carlson tomorrow morning.

[nc211]

Typical Lexus Stealership damage report. It must be a policy to quote the owner that the WHOLE thing is shot and needs to be replaced, instead of just isolating the one main part. I've had this happen a few times myself before I got smart. It's almost criminal. I'm really looking forward to someone who just looses it and sues someone for it. I'll sign up as a character witness any day.

[smokey0066]

Typical Lexus Stealership damage report. It must be a policy to quote the owner that the WHOLE thing is shot and needs to be replaced, instead of just isolating the one main part. I've had this happen a few times myself before I got smart. It's almost criminal. I'm really looking forward to someone who just looses it and sues someone for it. I'll sign up as a character witness any day.

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I just got off the phone with the head service guy.

He was actually pretty friendly and i'm going to leave work early and meet him to get a better explaination. Basically what he told me is that the valve in there that contorls the fluid for variable assist is going out so its not allow the pressure to help in the steering. he said the housing is al and the valve is steel so the valve is wearing into the al and sticks. He seemed honest and i guess most of the cost is the steering rack which is 1500 bucks.

He was honest with me and said i could drive it like this for awhile and be okay. I'm gonna try to find a part online cheaper and then take it to that toyota dealership and get it replaced.

I'll keep you guys updated.

DCFish the number you posted is disconnected. If you could call me and give me a hand.. i emailed you my contact info at dabaysidejill01@worldnet.att.net

[nc211]

online place to get parts cheaper than dealership:

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...983&catalogid=0

or trademotion.com and drill down to the lexus stuff.

My guys here at the dealership are VERY nice as well, but they want to change out everything. Ex; seal bad does not mean replace the seal...it means replace the seal and all the parts in the vacinity of the seal.

I don't know much about the powersteering "yet" on these cars, but I would think a good power fluid flush would help on this? I don't think I've heard of your specific problem on here before. If the valve is sticking, that makes me think the fluid is bad enough to prevent it from functioning correctly. But again, I have not had this break on my car yet...and i stress the word YET.

[nc211]

Steering pressure valve: #29 in picture. $502.43.

By the way, the rack is #7. I don't see the either/or connection between the two.

If you want to make him sweat, and keep him honest, print that picture off and tell him to identify which parts are bad in the picture. If it's not in that picture, it's not in your steering. Then let us know what parts he identifies and we'll go from there.

[smokey0066]

Steering pressure valve: #29 in picture. $502.43.

By the way, the rack is #7. I don't see the either/or connection between the two.

If you want to make him sweat, and keep him honest, print that picture off and tell him to identify which parts are bad in the picture. If it's not in that picture, it's not in your steering. Then let us know what parts he identifies and we'll go from there.

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So i just drove the car home. They were going to order the whole assembly blocked out in the box. He said that the part comes with the inner tie rods and has a 2yrs unlimited miles warranty. The part number is 44250-50150 off the estimate sheet (i asked the nice cashier to copy me all the paper work).

He showed me that same picture. Basically he said rings 17/18 that divert the presurized fluid are stuck in there and not function properly. So when i turn my wheel its not turning the ring or somethign like that. He mentioned that gm used to have this problem with their power steering "morning sickness" where the power steering wouldn't work until the car was warmmed up. I might have the opposite where the steering wont work once its warmed up. He said hes only seen a couple of these and hes been there for 17yrs.

He told me it was harmless to drive it as it is now but on the drive home it was making some noises. Maybe I was paying too much attention to it but

I know my fluid is due for a change. I asked him about flushing it and he said no guarantees but IT might help.

I called the toyota dealer DCFish refered to and they are going to call me back with a quote because they need to check on the parts.

Thanks for all this help. At least if I have to drop 2k+ i'll feel comfortable knowing it wasn't being messed with.

[SKperformance]

CHange the fliud , if it doesn't work you are out what $20-30 ,you could actually add an inline PS pump filter in case there is any debris. Same ones i mentinoe for the 1mz trannies.

[smokey0066]

So to add to the story. This morning I drove it to work again; and it was making some new noises. Sorta a gurgling sound. So i get to work at check the fluid level and there wasn't anything registering on the dipstick but it was wet so I assume there was some fluid in there.

During my lunch break I went and grabbed some dexron 3 fluid and filled it up to cold level. I started the car and went lock to lock and i was able to steer semi normal. I opened the resivoir and it was foamy.. I went back to check it about 1hr later and it was no long foamy. The thing is now my pump makes some bad noises. Whenever I turn it makes bad noises.

Do you guys think that maybe it was initially low? I swear it had fluid in it before I brought it in but maybe my eyes were decieving me.

Would a low fluid level cause the intermitent operation of the power steering? I called a few shops and they all said the pump would either be on or off. It is never "sorta" running. They said the idea of it running in the morning but then giving out later in the day means theres a problem with the valving in the rack. They also said the noises I'm hearing mean my pump is gonna go.

I called the dealer and they are not returning my calls. I left a message with my service advisor stating that when i brought my car in the fluid was full and now its not. I asked him what they did and why my fluid level was almost empty. I told him i refilled the resivoir and now it makes a horrible noise.

I'm heading home now. I hope the steering works.. I'm wondering if maybe all I needed was a new pump and a fluid flush now. I bet its too good to be true but I'm somewhat hopeful. I'm taking it to toyota tomorrow for another "diagnostic." I'm wondering if lexus even checked it out or if they just decided to charge me for the most expensive part.

[SKperformance]

The pump is not either on or off.

Anyone who says that is a mechanic not a technition,very big difference.

The LS has a variable rate power assist which makes it pump higher when going slow and slowly reduces according to the speed.

When the pump is running it will cause the fluid to splash the dipstick ,but if you don;t see fluid in the container then you don't have enough

[cardona6569]

So to add to the story. This morning I drove it to work again; and it was making some new noises. Sorta a gurgling sound. So i get to work at check the fluid level and there wasn't anything registering on the dipstick but it was wet so I assume there was some fluid in there.

During my lunch break I went and grabbed some dexron 3 fluid and filled it up to cold level. I started the car and went lock to lock and i was able to steer semi normal. I opened the resivoir and it was foamy.. I went back to check it about 1hr later and it was no long foamy. The thing is now my pump makes some bad noises. Whenever I turn it makes bad noises.

Do you guys think that maybe it was initially low? I swear it had fluid in it before I brought it in but maybe my eyes were decieving me.

Would a low fluid level cause the intermitent operation of the power steering? I called a few shops and they all said the pump would either be on or off. It is never "sorta" running. They said the idea of it running in the morning but then giving out later in the day means theres a problem with the valving in the rack. They also said the noises I'm hearing mean my pump is gonna go.

I called the dealer and they are not returning my calls. I left a message with my service advisor stating that when i brought my car in the fluid was full and now its not. I asked him what they did and why my fluid level was almost empty. I told him i refilled the resivoir and now it makes a horrible noise.

I'm heading home now. I hope the steering works.. I'm wondering if maybe all I needed was a new pump and a fluid flush now. I bet its too good to be true but I'm somewhat hopeful. I'm taking it to toyota tomorrow for another "diagnostic." I'm wondering if lexus even checked it out or if they just decided to charge me for the most expensive part.

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Hello:

The fluid is the life of this system. The first thing you need to check is that. I would advise to use the Lucas treatment for the rack, it will help a lot with your problem. The first thing you always need to check is the fluis quantity. The bad noises seem air in the system, just take the cap off and rotate the wheel couple of times, that should get the air off, and make sure the fluid is in the limit as specified in the dipstick. Let us know how it goes, and if you had to replace make other repairs. The rack is rebuildable in many instances. But it is hard to find someone who rebuils it. If needed I would buy and aftermarket one and save a lot on the part. They usually have warranties that are couple of years at least if not lifetime warranty.

C PR

[914lps]

Do Not Trust The Dealer!!!!!!!!!!

I found this forum when I was 500 miles from home and the power steering was going out last xmas.

Two Lexus dealers told me I needed a new pump, and complet rack. I was looking at $4,000 worth of work on a 91 ls!

After reading the forums I took the car to a independant guy and should him print outs of how to flush the system and clean the screen on the rack and in the pump.

He charged my a 1/2 labor and the cost of the fluid.

The car drove fine after that for 1000 miles. The problem came back. This time I was at home. I reflushed the system, cleaned the screens and put an inline filter in.

I have put over 15,000 miles on the car. The system has been fine. My power steering pump is just now starting to act up and is really dying now. I,ll put in a rebuilt for under 300.00.

I'll never take this car to a dealer!!!!

Trust this forum. In the last year it has saved my more money then the car is worth!!!!!!!!

Look for my post on all the info on the power seering filter. You can do a search by my name and see all posts.

Most of the folks on this forum realy are nice and verywilling to help. Some even work on Lexus for a living, and none of them will tell you to trust the dealer. Said but true.

Take care. Hope this forum helps you as much as it has helped me.

Think of this it will cost under 100.00 to have someone flush the system and clean the filters/screens for you. If it helps. Bingo you saved big bucks.

[smokey0066]

Sorry for no update.

Actually the problem is ok as of now. After my last post I took it to a buddy who wrenches in his garage and he helped me flush the system somewhat. He said it was low/empty. We filled it and then it looked really dark so we sorta flushed it best we could. Its been working fine since and it has held the fluid level. I honestly think the dealer took fluid out of the system and tried to pull one over me. Like i said the fluid was full when I brought it in and it was working intermitently. I'm going to write a letter of complaint to lexus and see if they care to say anything.

I bet some damage was done to the pump so I'll keep an eye on that pump from now on but so far its running well.

Thanks guys for your advice. I saved 2k on this BS issue. I hope i never have to go back there again. I don't understand how they do business. They just lost a customer, probably for life.

[nc211]

If you want to really get thier attention, call the corporate number and complain about that specific dealership. Dealerships' are rated by corporate on many areas, one being customer satifaction. The higher their rating, the higher up the ladder they go in priority for inventory. This worked for me on my ECU problem I had when I bought my car from the local dealership. The local manager kept dragging his feet and giving me the run around. Once I filed the complaint with HQ, the dealership fell in line and honored their 90day/3,000 warranty and repaired the car for free. Dealerships make there big bucks from the service side, not so much the sales side. And for some reason, Lexus is one of the worst when it comes to giving an honest quote for what REALLY needs to be repaired. I have lost all faith in them myself. I've got to be honest, when I had a 94' Jimmy many years ago, the GM guys did a better job of being honest on the repairs. When Acura showed up on the scene back in the 80's, they nearly lost their butts financially due to the fact that they overstocked inventory parts for their cars, especially the Integra. They simply made the car too good and it never came back for repair work. Go to lexus.com and you'll find the 800 number.

[smokey0066]

Well.. Hate to bring this topic back up but today it happened again. Power steering gave out.. This time the fluid was full.. So I take back what I said; Maybe they (Lexus) were right that there is an issue with the steering rack.

I Just got an allignment and was about to get tires put on this wednesday. Now I'm having doubts on whether to keep the car... Do you guys think its worth it to throw 2.5k into a car thats maybe worth 13k.. I should have traded it in when it was running well. Now its back to this game of trying to get it fixed without getting ripped.

Is there anyway i can check to see if the power steering pump is working? I'm wondering if this is due to the damage from last time when it ran low on fluid. The fluid in the thing was warm but not hot. Do you guys have a print of this filter/screen; I'm gonna try to find shop around here that will clean that filter out for me. There is no unusual noises from the car until i try to turn.. then it just whines like the wheel is at full lock; just like way back when i first posted this. But i can muscle it to turn...

[cardona6569]

Well.. Hate to bring this topic back up but today it happened again. Power steering gave out.. This time the fluid was full.. So I take back what I said; Maybe they (Lexus) were right that there is an issue with the steering rack.

I Just got an allignment and was about to get tires put on this wednesday. Now I'm having doubts on whether to keep the car... Do you guys think its worth it to throw 2.5k into a car thats maybe worth 13k.. I should have traded it in when it was running well. Now its back to this game of trying to get it fixed without getting ripped.

Is there anyway i can check to see if the power steering pump is working? I'm wondering if this is due to the damage from last time when it ran low on fluid. The fluid in the thing was warm but not hot. Do you guys have a print of this filter/screen; I'm gonna try to find shop around here that will clean that filter out for me. There is no unusual noises from the car until i try to turn.. then it just whines like the wheel is at full lock; just like way back when i first posted this. But i can muscle it to turn...

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Your pump might be going but before you go running for a new pump, check the belt tension/condition. The pumps in these cars could make noise but if the steering feels good it may be just the pump going or the belt or both. I had the same problem with a Diamante, ended up replacing the belt and the pump, a mechanic friend of mine said the gurging noise was ok if the steering felt good which it did, but I hated the noise, so I replaced the pump, and the belt, no more noise. If the power steering gave out it was probably with low pressure meaning probably the pump, is bad or clogged or both. Needs checking.

C. PR