First Gen Es 300 Vs. Second Gen...

[T_belt_01]

Hello all,

I'm new here as my post count will suggest. I helped a neighbor purchase a '98 ES 300 with 141k on it yesturday--and I was so impressed with the car that I would also like to help my sister replace her ailing '91 Accord with a similar unit. She is limited to around $7k, and in my area, there are a few '97's and '98's for about that much, and more '95-'96's for that price. I realize these models are based off of and correspond with the Toyota Camary of the same years. So--which one would be better assuming it will be kept for 4-5 years and driven average miles by a gentle driver?

She is also curious about fuel ecomomy--what are real-world figures (city & highway) for both generations? Are both V-6's non-interferance engines? What else is there to watch for as I look around for the perfect car for her? Thanks in advance--I can't wait to pick up one of these for my own daily driving!

[chadmg7]

Personally, I bought my 97 ES300 when I started college with hopes that it would last me through the rest of my schooling. As a junior, I still have a few years left, and I am confident that this car would last until I am out of college, and beyond.

Of course, logic would say that the newer the car is, the longer it would presumably last. But it seems that people on this forum with first gen. ES300s have had really good luck with them, and those would certainly be more in the $7k price range. Here in MN, most of the 97 and 98 ES300s are around $10k-$12k.

As for fuel economy, I seem to achieve better gas mileage in the summer than in the winter. In the summer, I can go about 300 miles on a tank of gas (but I fill up when there is 1/4 of a tank left). In the winter, it's maybe about 260 miles. Much of my driving is on the highway, but I go about 70mph or so most of the time, so the gas mileage is negatively affected. I also do a lot of driving around the suburbs... lots of stoplights and stop signs (along with traffic no matter where I am <_< ).

Hope that helps. :)

[SnesleyWipes]

Hello all,

I'm new here as my post count will suggest.  I helped a neighbor purchase a '98 ES 300 with 141k on it yesturday--and I was so impressed with the car that I would also like to help my sister replace her ailing '91 Accord with a similar unit.  She is limited to around $7k, and in my area, there are a few '97's and '98's for about that much, and more '95-'96's for that price.  I realize these models are based off of and correspond with the Toyota Camary of the same years.  So--which one would be better assuming it will be kept for 4-5 years and driven average miles by a gentle driver?

She is also curious about fuel ecomomy--what are real-world figures (city & highway) for both generations?  Are both V-6's non-interferance engines?  What else is there to watch for as I look around for the perfect car for her?  Thanks in advance--I can't wait to pick up one of these for my own daily driving!

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Go for the 92-96. You will save $$$. I have had my 92 since 20,000 and now has 85,000. Not any problems. Tranny flush every 30k and synthetic oil every 5,000. Love it!

[98es]

I have a 98 and absolutely love it, the only thing about buying a used 97-01 is that you have to make sure that the previous owner stayed on top of oil changes. If you've done any research in this forum you'll see the issues the 97-01 es has with engine oil gelling. I'm a junior in college, bought my es last june with 95k on it and now its got 118k and I plan on keeping it until i absolutely have to sell it. There are a few other minor common problems with this generation. When it comes to styling, the two generations don't look too different from each other. To answer your quesiton about interference, from what I remember the 98 is a non-interference, but the 97 is an interference. I'm sure there are more educated members that can inform you on that. One plus on the 98 is its the year side airbags were standard. Honestly, in your shoes I would probably go for the 95-96 years because you can get one with lower mileage. Hope this helps. My gas mileage has been really good. I do about 60% highway, 40% city and average about 25 mpg. Thats at least 400 miles to the tank. Even on an all city driving tank I've never gotten less than 20, and by no means do I drive like a grandma. -Wes

[NeiLtYmE]

94-96 is hands down the safest and best bet.

if you try and find something second gen for that price line, its ganna have more miles than youd wanna have.

7k price line for a 94-96 will get you relatively lower miles and definetely a less of a headache.

As long as all mandatory maintainance was in order you are all set.

I have seen way too many people with the old iron block 92-93 develope radiator problems and !Removed! up the gaskets.

94-96 was an all new aluminum engine with redesigned cooling system.

97-01 from what ive noticed require a bit more attention. have have many other problems of thier own, Like the engine oil problems.

[ford212.809]

94-96 is hands down the safest and best bet.

if you try and find something second gen for that price line, its ganna have more miles than youd wanna have.

7k price line for a 94-96 will get you relatively lower miles and definetely a less of a headache. 

As long as all mandatory maintainance was in order you are all set.

I have seen way too many people with the old iron block 92-93 develope radiator problems and !Removed! up the gaskets. 

94-96 was an all new aluminum engine with redesigned cooling system. 

97-01 from what ive noticed require a bit more attention.  have have many other problems of thier own, Like the engine oil problems.

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Bought mine on Ebay 2 months ago. I saved a bunch of money. Monitor it daily -

there are some very nice ES300's posted frequently. ;)

[T_belt_01]

Thanks for the info so far--keep it coming. Frankley I was likely looking at the newer series, however I would be fine with a first gen if they will be relaible. Biggest need is to get her up to drive one to see what she would prefer. They are hard to find in her area, and those that exist are overpriced.

With regard to the "oil gelling" symptoms of the second gen models--would this occur if synthetic oil was used and changed at 5k intervals? Guess I ought to search on this one a bit. Thanks again for your help--great forum!

[SKperformance]

read the faq it is all their already

[jragosta]

Hello all,

I'm new here as my post count will suggest.  I helped a neighbor purchase a '98 ES 300 with 141k on it yesturday--and I was so impressed with the car that I would also like to help my sister replace her ailing '91 Accord with a similar unit.  She is limited to around $7k, and in my area, there are a few '97's and '98's for about that much, and more '95-'96's for that price.  I realize these models are based off of and correspond with the Toyota Camary of the same years.  So--which one would be better assuming it will be kept for 4-5 years and driven average miles by a gentle driver?

She is also curious about fuel ecomomy--what are real-world figures (city & highway) for both generations?  Are both V-6's non-interferance engines?  What else is there to watch for as I look around for the perfect car for her?  Thanks in advance--I can't wait to pick up one of these for my own daily driving!

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You're talking about cars in the 6 - 10 year old range. None of them are new enough that the years are going to matter. Instead, focus on the condition and how much wear and tear they've seen. When buying an older car, particularly if the miles are getting up there, only one thing matters - what kind of condition is it in. You should be looking for a car that has been impeccably maintained and looks gorgeous (with, of course, some wear and tear). That means that you're likely to get one a year or two older at any given price point, but as I said, don't worry about the age.

As soon as you start with "well, this one needs brakes, and a tuneup and timing belt...." it's time to move on.

It will take patience, but you should be able to find one in super condition. That's the one you want.

[T_belt_01]

That is certanily my feeling as well. The '98 my neighbor just purchased had been sold and serviced at the same dealer it's whole life, they had all the records--and it had been very well maintained. My original question was posed to begin to discern the differances between first and second generation models. Thanks again for the help!

I also just missed a wondeful white/silver Coach edition '96 with 115k on it for an asking price of $6995 from the Lexus dealer that sold it to the frist owner. Sold a week ago, still advertised to make me drool. Oops, oh well, there will be others.

[jragosta]

That is certanily my feeling as well.  The '98 my neighbor just purchased had been sold and serviced at the same dealer it's whole life, they had all the records--and it had been very well maintained.  My original question was posed to begin to discern the differances between first and second generation models.  Thanks again for the help!

I also just missed a wondeful white/silver Coach edition '96 with 115k on it for an asking price of $6995 from the Lexus dealer that sold it to the frist owner.  Sold a week ago, still advertised to make me drool.  Oops, oh well, there will be others.

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That's the important thing to keep in mind. It's not like you're looking for a rare or exotic car. There are lots of Lexus ES's out there. Don't settle for one in poor condition - because there will be others.

[branshew]

I have to agree w/ what jragosta has said thus far. I would add one thing though and that would be to not buy anything made before 1994. the 1MZFE engine came out in 1994 qnd was a better design. The earlier years are prone to overheating issues.

I think you're probably better off looking at a 1st gen ES300 in that price range. If you can find a 2nd gen in your price range it will have really high miles and it will probably be a dog. Chances are it was not well maintained, in an accident, or the engine is about to lock up b/c of sludge issues. If you are comparing same year Camrys to same year Lexus' and they are both in the same price range then something is definitely wrong w/ the Lexus' you are looking at. If the deal seems too good to be true then it probably is. Remember: There's nothing "cheap" about an inexpensive luxury car.

I think the 2nd gen was a better car than the 1st gen as far as styling and ride feel, but both are equally reliable and well built. I have a 1st gen and my mom drives a 2nd gen so I have been able to compare both in depth. If you are able to find a nice first gen that has been well maintained then you will have a great car for the money.

1st gen gas mileage in mixed driving has been in the low 20's for me. The 1st gen engine is non interference type, but I think the 2nd gen may be interference type. I thought that I read something somewhere where VVT & VVTi engines were intereference type, but don't hold me to it. Maybe only later 2nd gen are interference?? Someone else could better answer that question.

*** On a side note, I have a very nice 1995 ES300 in the somewhat rare Amethyst Mist color that has been imaculately maintained and will be for sale soon. It is completely stock except for a nice window tint. All options except heated seats & heated mirrors. A couple of door dings and other age marks, but NO RUST and overall in really great shape. Everything works and all maintenance is up to date. This was (is) my baby and I took really good care of her. Mileage is good and it's in your price range. Send me a PM if you want some more info.

[T_belt_01]

Thanks, it didn't allow me to PM you, not sure as to why. I fyou can PM me, great, otherwise I'll provide an e-mail whereby I could discuss more details. Thanks for your help.

[steviej]

Thanks, it didn't allow me to PM you, not sure as to why.  I fyou can PM me, great, otherwise I'll provide an e-mail whereby I could discuss more details.  Thanks for your help.

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the PM function (to or from) is inaccessable to members with a post count less than 20. You are currently at 5. You will have to resort to email.

steviej

[T_belt_01]

It's good to know such a feature exisits--I very much understand why. Branshew you may reach me via: rleverne@aol.com

I would be interested to know the mileage and basic service history, and to see a few picutres of the vechile. Thanks!

[SKperformance]

1st gen is 89-91

2nd gen is 92-96 mcv10

3rd gen 97-01 mcv20

4th gen 02-05 mcv30

[branshew]

1st gen is 89-91

2nd gen is 92-96 mcv10

3rd gen 97-01 mcv20

4th gen 02-05 mcv30

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True, but since I'm feeling punchy 1st gen ES 300 was 92-96

T belt 01 - I just sent you an e-mail.

[ArmyofOne]

1st gen is 89-91

2nd gen is 92-96 mcv10

3rd gen 97-01 mcv20

4th gen 02-05 mcv30

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True, but since I'm feeling punchy 1st gen ES 300 was 92-96

T belt 01 - I just sent you an e-mail.

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and the ES250 debuted in 1990, not 89...

sorry SK, i had to do it :D

[T_belt_01]

branshew,

Thanks, I just e-mailed you back, will talk with my sister in the next day or so as to her thoughts.

[Senna4ever]

Think of it this way: the "i" in VVT-i stands for interference. VVT engines are non-interference, the VVT-i engines are.

[steviej]

Think of it this way: the "i" in VVT-i stands for interference.  VVT engines are non-interference, the VVT-i engines are.

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that's how I always remember it. :whistles:

steviej