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You Guess It - Vibration


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OK - first off, I have read countless topics on the subject of vibration on GS400s. Mine started when I replaced my Michelins with Yokohamas. The only difference is the speed rating of the tires. The size is the same. I got them at Discount Tire. Apparently I purchased a vibration between 60-80mph. I took back the wheels and had them balanced once again by Discount Tire but the problem still exists. I had no problems with worn out Michelins. I do have a slight alignment issue and will get that repaired but cannot believe that is causing the vibration.

I have the stock 17" chrome rims btw. Wouldnt a high speed balance machine show that the wheels are not balanced?? What speeds do tire shops normally balance wheels???

I dont think it is a bushing problem b/c of how the problem appeared all of a sudden with new tires - too much of a coincidence for me to believe. The problem does appear to get worse when going around curves at speeds greater that 50mph. I checked the bushings and they all appear to be in good shape with a visual check. The car has 100K on it.

Im not about to start replacing all kinds of parts without knowing that it will fix the problem. Is there a tire/repair shop who can fix this once and for all in the Austin, Texas area - I will even drive to Dallas or Houston.

Hope someone can help

Wagsy

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You need to try centering rings first. <_<

Turbo - should I get the center rings even if I am using the stock 17" Lexus wheels? I asked the tech at Discount about them but he said I didnt need them

b/c I had stock Lexus wheels. He said only aftermarket wheels need them.

Wagsy :cries:

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I missed the stock rims part. I had to have discount balance mine twice as you did as well. They got it the second time around and with the centering rings it's gone. Maybe take it another discount and have it balanced. Alot of it depends on the tech working the balancer. The tread can have some effect, however, most is in the balancing. I think most balancers go to 55 to 60mph.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/pdf/tsb-TireBalance-12803.pdf

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I had a similar issue when I bought new tires for my SC300. The vibration started exactly when I purchased the new tires, but the tire shop told me that I needed new universals on my driveshaft. Morons. I had them balance again with no luck. It ws better, but not completely gone. He then told me that he does not have 0.25 ounce weights because he does not believe it makes any difference.

So, I went to another place and had them balanced again. Vibration gone. I went back to the first place and gave him a lesson in tire balancing that his "30 years in the business" didn't teach him. He told me that he has never had an issue with increased vibration on his car, a Chevy Cavalier. I didn't have the heart to go any further after that comment. The guys does good work, but he cannot balance a tire to save his life.

Go to another shop. I think you'll be much happier with your tire purchase like me.

Tom

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I second the suggestion to go to a different shop. Only 1 time in 10 attempts has Discount Tire here in Corpus Christi been able to perfectly balance my tires, and that was on a brand new set of Michelins for my Tundra. :cries: Somebody needs to show the techs how to calibrate those Hunter machines.

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Update: Turns out there is more information required. To get tires to balance properly, you have to know if the wheels are lug centric or hub centric. Lug centric wheels (like the ones on my Tundra) center the wheel on the axle shaft based on tightening the lug nuts. As the nuts tighten, they precisely center the wheel. To properly balance lug centric wheels the tech must attach the wheel to a lug adapter then mount that onto the balancing machine.

Hub centric wheels use a flange on the axle and a recess in the wheel to center the wheel on the axle. The hub transfers the weight and stresses of the vehicle to the wheel . The lug nuts just hold the wheel tight against the axle seat. With this kind of wheel, the tech should use a cone to center the wheel on the balancing machine.

Too often, the tech will get in a hurry and not make this correction. He will automatically mount the wheel on the balance machine using the cone adapter. Outcome: the tires on lug centric wheels will almost always be just a little out of balance. :o

Hope this helps. ;)

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It would be sad since this guy knew that these are OEM rims and that they don't need centering rings (which translates to hub-centric rims) but still manage to use the incorrect setting. :(

I know - I think I may print off this entire thread and have Discount Tire read it before they rebalance my tires a third time. I have to creatively bring up these great tips when I go there again. The tech will probably think I balanced tires before. But it sounds like they probably have the equipment to do it right - they just dont take their time and do a good job.

Wagsy

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I had the same issue with my GS 300...although I did have aftermarket rims...but when the centering rings didn't stop the vibrating, I took it to the dealer and they did the "laser alignment" and had some sort of computer based balancing machine where they don't take the wheels off...either way they had something fancy shmancy that most tire shops don't have. Now the problem is solved...my GS rides just as smooth as a brand new car with new tires. They showed me a computer print out of the balancing and what they did to rectify the situation. My suggestion is to take it to a Lexus dealer or some other high tech shop that would have something like this and see if they can fix it. Oh yeah, it cost about $120 bucks for this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mines shook also although when I took it to NTB they did not feel it. They finallly said one tire was out of alignment and fixed for free it but that did no good (I honestly don't think they did anything). The Lexus dealership said get rid of the Good Years and get Michilin...Problem solved until I had a flat and went back to NTB to get it repaired. Also got them rotated and balanced and the shaking began once again. Went to a Toyata/Lexus garage for maintainance and they rotated and balanced them and once again the problem is solved. I won't be going back to NTB.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have been in and out of Discount Tire several times with 2 different cars and they simply CAN'T balance wheels there. My latest is my 98 LS400 (sorry, I know it's off topic for this area) and they have not been able to balance them properly. I have a set of 18" ADR Sterlings with Pirelli's and centering hubs... I'm convinced it's not the equipment, it's the balancing. When they mounted the tires for me, they dinged the lip on one of my brand new ADRs and scratched the heck out of the lug holes. You get what you pay for I guess. Never again.

I'm headed to the dealer as suggested in a previous post.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I have been in and out of Discount Tire several times with 2 different cars and they simply CAN'T balance wheels there.  My latest is my 98 LS400 (sorry, I know it's off topic for this area) and they have not been able to balance them properly. I have a set of 18" ADR Sterlings with Pirelli's and centering hubs... I'm convinced it's not the equipment, it's the balancing. When they mounted the tires for me, they dinged the lip on one of my brand new ADRs and scratched the heck out of the lug holes.  You get what you pay for I guess.  Never again.

I'm headed to the dealer as suggested in a previous post.

I second that - I tried a third time to go to discount tire after arguing with the store manager about the poor balancing. He first tells me that I have the wrong tires on my car b/c it differs from factory. My tires are 245s instead of 235s. Then, he tells me that I have the wrong speed rating and tread wear. He says all this without providing me any technical information as to why this is causin the vibration, just that it is wrong from factory spec. I said "thanks hotshot" but tell me why it is vibrating - which he couldnt. So he offered to put it on this balancer which puts 120 lbs /sq. inch on the tire to simulate a load while balancing. No idea what this machine was but they put the tires back on - I drove for like 2 miles which appeared to be much better and then wammo - the vibration comes back at 60-72mph. Im done with Discount - I dont buy that the treadwear and speed rating of any tire prevents it from being balanced. I guess Im off to the dealer who quoted me $300 depending on how many times they have to take the wheels off the car. Fer cryin out loud..........

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I have been in and out of Discount Tire several times with 2 different cars and they simply CAN'T balance wheels there.  My latest is my 98 LS400 (sorry, I know it's off topic for this area) and they have not been able to balance them properly. I have a set of 18" ADR Sterlings with Pirelli's and centering hubs... I'm convinced it's not the equipment, it's the balancing. When they mounted the tires for me, they dinged the lip on one of my brand new ADRs and scratched the heck out of the lug holes.  You get what you pay for I guess.  Never again.

I'm headed to the dealer as suggested in a previous post.

I second that - I tried a third time to go to discount tire after arguing with the store manager about the poor balancing. He first tells me that I have the wrong tires on my car b/c it differs from factory. My tires are 245s instead of 235s. Then, he tells me that I have the wrong speed rating and tread wear. He says all this without providing me any technical information as to why this is causin the vibration, just that it is wrong from factory spec. I said "thanks hotshot" but tell me why it is vibrating - which he couldnt. So he offered to put it on this balancer which puts 120 lbs /sq. inch on the tire to simulate a load while balancing. No idea what this machine was but they put the tires back on - I drove for like 2 miles which appeared to be much better and then wammo - the vibration comes back at 60-72mph. Im done with Discount - I dont buy that the treadwear and speed rating of any tire prevents it from being balanced. I guess Im off to the dealer who quoted me $300 depending on how many times they have to take the wheels off the car. Fer cryin out loud..........

I haven't had this problem with my GS430 but I did have the exact same problems with Discount Tire when I had my Volvo S70 T5. I had aftermarket wheel and was having fits trying to get rid of 70 MPH + vibration, hub rings helped but the thing that made the difference is making sure the technician tightened my lug nuts by hand. After 4 visits to Discount and them telling me it was my ____ fill in the blank. I got fed up, jacked up my car, removed and then replaced my wheels and presto. In subsequent visits I demanded that they not use the impact wrench to tighten down my wheels and the problem did not resurface.

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  • 2 months later...

OK, here we are again. As I mentioned in my previous posts, I've gone to Discount twice and now have been thru the Park Place Lexus Dealer here in Grapevine, Texas twice. No one can seem to balance these tires. It actually got worse when I took it to the dealer. Both times they insisted that the tires were too hard and I would feel all of the feedback from the road... well yeah... duh... I KNOW THAT but that has NOTHING to do with a wobble in the front and a hop in the back. At 55 the steering wheel actually wobbles in my hands, at 75 that smooths out somewhat but there is a very distinct hop from the rear (a 1 to 1 vertical for those of you military guys). For the life of me, I can't understand why these are so hard to do a good balancing job on. No one has once suggested that there might be a bad tire or rim (which is unlikely anyway) but trying to tell me the tires are too hard for the car and that is the cause of the imbalance is just plain idiotic IMHO. I was very surprised that they turned their noses up at the fact that I had put custom wheels on this car...(especially when they sell similar aftermarket rims there for 4 times the price) at least that is how they made me feel.

Sorry, just had to vent. Can ANYONE suggest a real professional road-force trained expert in the Dallas area that can fix this problem???

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Luptona,

I have the exact same problem as you - and I have the factory 17" chrome wheels to boot. If you find someone in Dallas who can fix yours - I am willing to travel from Austin to get this repaired. I have marked my tires with crayons to see if my wheels slip on the rims for now...Discount Tire also told me after their road force balance that I had a bent rim so I took it to Wheel Technologies and they repaired it. I wish their was a place who could fix this for good.

Wagsy

OK, here we are again.  As I mentioned in my previous posts, I've gone to Discount twice and now have been thru the Park Place Lexus Dealer here in Grapevine, Texas twice.  No one can seem to balance these tires.  It actually got worse when I took it to the dealer. Both times they insisted that the tires were too hard and I would feel all of the feedback from the road... well yeah... duh... I KNOW THAT but  that has NOTHING to do with a wobble in the front and a hop in the back. At 55 the steering wheel actually wobbles in my hands, at 75 that smooths out somewhat but there is a very distinct hop from the rear (a 1 to 1 vertical for those of you military guys).  For the life of me, I can't understand why these are so hard to do a good balancing job on.  No one has once suggested that there might be a bad tire or rim (which is unlikely anyway) but trying to tell me the tires are too hard for the car and that is the cause of the imbalance is just plain idiotic IMHO.  I was very surprised that they turned their noses up at the fact that I had put custom wheels on this car...(especially when they sell similar aftermarket rims there for 4 times the price) at least that is how they made me feel.

Sorry, just had to vent.  Can ANYONE suggest a real professional road-force trained expert in the Dallas area that can fix this problem???

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Luptona,

I have the exact same problem as you - and I have the factory 17" chrome wheels to boot.  If you find someone in Dallas who can fix yours - I am willing to travel from Austin to get this repaired.  I have marked my tires with crayons to see if my wheels slip on the rims for now...Discount Tire also told me after their road force balance that I had a bent rim so I took it to Wheel Technologies and they repaired it.  I wish their was a place who could fix this for good.

Wagsy

Certainly. If I find someone that will get the job done, I'll post it. I had heard from a few folks that one guy out at the Discount Tire in Grapevine knows how to do it. I'm just a little gun-shy to take it back to ANY Discount store due to past experience. This is the second car that I've run thru there with no luck. I thought for sure the Lexus dealer would do it. I think the trick is several things; make sure the ticket says "Hub Centric" if they are (mine are) and that they hand tighten the lugs. My wheels have been on and off the car so darn many times now the lug holes look horrible. Customer Service is so hard to get these days...

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I had a problem some time ago with new tires and vibration that followed. After several balance jobs and even replaced a drive shaft to cure the vibration. Guess what ? one tire was out of round, I could see it while spinning on the balance machine. Pointed it out to the tech and the store replaced tires and vibration gone. It's not impossible to get a bad tire.

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WOW you guys~!!!!!! I had 19" Enkei wheels and they kinda wabbled and i had a little scrapping on the driver side wheels.. so im like ok ima get new wheels Right.. well i got 20" Zenetti Stellas, omg.. after sittin there for like 1.5 hrs to get the stuff which i was told they had in stock.. ne way.. i sat there for like 5 hrs... after 2-3 rebalances on the new rims.. i finally gave up and said ok im going home.. after i thought they were ok.. PFF yeah right!! at 70+ it feels like im driving on a wave-groove-highway.. it mkaes my carf eel like CRAP im so *BLEEP*ed... it seems were all in the same hole!! ill have some pics in a few.. they look sick tho

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well hm... called up tha shop today.. they gave me this excuse... i drove it fro a while and the tire "now" set itself on the wheel, and the wheels need to be rebalanced again... kinda makes sence... well see what happens... 20 minutes 15 miles again GRR.. i kinda noticed my gas milage now sux alot more wit 20's.. :-\

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After the tires set on the wheels, did the second balance fix the vibration?

I marked my tires at the valve stems to see if the tires were slipping on the

factory chrome 17" wheels. No slippage yet but still wondering what my next move should be.....

Wagsy

http://tech-industries.biz/images/PC0200024.jpg heheh jus got these 2 days ago.. man.. what a vibration horror story.. but fixed. i think..:chairshot: the headlights are photochopped.. :-D

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Don't know if this matters but are all of your wheels "made" specifically for your vehicle or are they universal? I just recently purchased 19's on my 2000 GS400 and not a shake at all - AT ANY SPEED! Here's the kicker I bought my wheels from Wheelmax.com and it ONLY shows the wheels that is suggested for my year make and model vehicle. Just my 2 cents.

Nick

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