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I've been reading Automotive magazines and looked around websites, and I'm sorry to say that none of them lists the ES330's in their top 5 or even their top 10.

At one time they were always at or near the top in almost all respects. It seems that Lexus is slipping, and other manufacturers models are passing them by.

Has anybody noticed this? :cries:

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I've been reading Automotive magazines and looked around websites, and I'm sorry to say that none of them lists the ES330's in their top 5 or even their top 10.

At one time they were always at or near the top in almost all respects. It seems that Lexus is slipping, and other manufacturers models are passing them by.

Has anybody noticed this?  :cries:

That's always been true.

If you read the reviews from nearly any automotive magazine, they criticize the ES as being 'boring' or 'unexciting'. The reviewers rave over cars that are FAST and have extreme handling - which is why the Acura TL always beats the ES in those reviews.

Don't let it bother you too much.

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Yep, the ES isn't the kind of car that impresses car magazines.

Ya, besides the ES is intended to be a smooth and quiet riding luxury sedan, not a sports sedan. That's why Lexus made the IS and the GS to accomadate customers desiring a sportier sedan. As you best put it Steve in regards to the current generation ES, Lexus designed it to be a "baby LS".

Granted it would be nice that auto magazines would rave about the ES, but the ES is to "sensible" for them.

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market has changed in the past 4 years drastically. Every car that even wants to be considered a top notch needs to have vehicles that are beefed up with more power than needed.

But toyota knows whats ahead. thier new avalons are ganna slap the nissans and hondas around like pattys. the GS is ganna toy around with those infinities easy.

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Perhaps the next generation ES will catch everyone's attention! It's important to remember that no other auto maker can compete with the ES in terms of overall quality, reliability & re-sale value. I don't think Lexus is slipping as much as there is so much available on the market in that segment.....it's easy for the ES to be overlooked which is a shame. B)

:cheers:

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Intellichoice just named the ES330 number one for its "near luxury" class.

Here is a link:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?c...10&src=LP%20new

It can't be that bad then :D The ES, Avalon & RX were all on that list! B) ;)

:cheers:

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Plenty of sports sedans don't have turbos...in fact I can't think of one (outside of a Saab) that does.

Mercedes E -class has the tubo diesel but their sports sedan sport the supercharger.

Subaru WRX and other models

Audi - across the board

Bentley has a twin-turbo - a bit on the expensive side

Volvo - available in all models

Pontiac Bonneville, Grand Prix, GTO - OK, I think they are all a supercharger

Peugeot - available in all models

VW Passat and other models

Mini Cooper S - another Supercharger (this will be changed in 06 or 07 to a turbo)

Mazda 3-series, 6-series, and MX5 (different class)

Dodge PT Cruiser - I am reaching here

Porsche - again I am reaching because it can't really be considered a sedan.

Flame bait:

My point is that the ES330 doesn't have the powertain to be considered a Sports Sedan. It is a luxury sedan. An option for a more powerful engine would help but with the gearing so low in 1st & 2nd on the auto trans if you had more power you would be burning off the wheels. It pulls good up to about 3000 RPM and then it goes flat. A turbo that kicked in about 2500 RPM would put the 330 into the fringe of the sports sedan market (provided the suspension was beefed up as well). The 330 has grown in size and weight with the 04 model. The creature comforts have also added additional weight.

I like high performance cars and I like comfortable cars. The ES has changed market segment with the current model. If I want comfort the ES is the choice. If I want performance I will jump in my 944Turbo. :cheers:

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Dodge PT Cruiser - I am reaching here

No such beast ;) The PT Cruiser is a Chrysler.

You're considering different vehicles than I am when I think of "Sports sedans". Cars like the BMW 3 and 5 series, Cadillac CTS, Acura TL and TSX, I hadn't thought of the Audis. A turbo doesn't make a sports sedan, the overall character of the vehicle does. The ES is just not a sports sedan, and thats why the magazines don't like it. They don't care for the LS either but always begrudgingly give it 1st or 2nd place because they wouldn't be credible otherwise.

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They don't care for the LS either but always begrudgingly give it 1st or 2nd place because they wouldn't be credible otherwise.

Yep, I think it was Car and Driver (or one of those auto mags) that gave 1st Place to the LS430, but of course they would have preferred the BMW or Audi more.

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