First Snow Experience With Toyo Proxes Tpts...

SW03ES · January 19, 2005

Well, we got about 3 inches of snow here today, our road crews are notoriously bad. By the time I was out in it the main roads were more or less clear while the surface streets, and all the streets leading to my house were still snow covered. I got to try my new Toyos out in the snow for the first time...

What a dissapointment.

These tires took what was a pretty good snow car and turned it into a total pig. Its as bad as my dad's RWD LS which I consider almost undrivable in the snow. I drove the car through several snowstorms on the original Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires and they were exponentially better. Takeoff with the Toyos is a sideways proposition, and turning and stopping all require much more care than the Bridgestones. What a black eye on such a great tire, they're just so much better than the Bridgestones in every way...except in the snow. I won't drive it in the snow again with those tires if I can help it.

That leaves me with an interesting dillemma, we're supposed to have a pretty bad winter here this year, but the Toyos have only a little over 10k on them and they have 90% of the tread life left probably. I'm tempted to go back and have something else put on it...

Lexusfreak · January 19, 2005

Well, we got about 3 inches of snow here today, our road crews are notoriously bad. By the time I was out in it the main roads were more or less clear while the surface streets, and all the streets leading to my house were still snow covered. I got to try my new Toyos out in the snow for the first time...
What a dissapointment.

These tires took what was a pretty good snow car and turned it into a total pig. Its as bad as my dad's RWD LS which I consider almost undrivable in the snow. I drove the car through several snowstorms on the original Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires and they were exponentially better. Takeoff with the Toyos is a sideways proposition, and turning and stopping all require much more care than the Bridgestones. What a black eye on such a great tire, they're just so much better than the Bridgestones in every way...except in the snow. I won't drive it in the snow again with those tires if I can help it.

That leaves me with an interesting dillemma, we're supposed to have a pretty bad winter here this year, but the Toyos have only a little over 10k on them and they have 90% of the tread life left probably. I'm tempted to go back and have something else put on it...

←

Ouch sw :( that's intresting......Up here in Toronto, we have had several bad snow storms so far this winter (had 2 last winter when I first got the Toyo's). Compared to the Michelin's that came with the car, the Toyo's were like night & day for both snow & rain traction.

Having said that, I did have one experence myself that was very suprising. It was the sliding sideways you mentioned........BUT, it was freezing rain earlier in the day & turned to snow after that. I had to go to the bank & was pulling out of the parking lot (going no more than 1-2 MPH). My breaks locked up, traction control, VSC all were kicking in & I was sliding sideways towards the street I was trying to turn out onto. :blink: Lucky for me it was not a heavily traveled street & after hours so only one car was coming & that driver saw I was having some trouble & stopped long before we would 'meet'. It was because of the ice patches that were under the snow, combined with about 2 inches of slushy snow combined to cause my incident. This was on a very slight incline.

Other than that, I have had no major issues with my TPT's but I will agree that they are not very good on an icy surface mixed with snow. Regular snow has been fine & I have felt very confident in their traction & braking performance. I did have one scare with the ice, but that's it. :(

I will say the Bridgestones do not even come close to the Toyo's in any bad traction conditions (including heavy snow, rain & of course ice). No question they were the worst tires I have ever experenced. Just put the Toyo & Potenza RE 92 side by side & look at the difference in the tread patterns to prove my point.....I won't even go to the treadwear differences. Sorry you had a bad experence, I hope you re-gain more confidence next time the snow falls. ;) I would give them one more reasonable chance. If you still fine them bad to drive on, get yourself a set of snows.

:cheers:

timothy · January 20, 2005

My 04 es has the Dunlop 5000 tires and seem to be pretty good in the snow. I'm in Michigan and had some bad snow already. Traction control works good. Have the flat spotting problem, that goes away in mile or two.

swo3es, what's your tire preasure? Maybe lowering might help. I lowered it on mine but didn't make any difference. Take care.

Timothy

SW03ES · January 20, 2005

Snows around here don't make any sense, we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Its a real shame, I really like the tires in all other respects and I'd hate like hell to have to pay for another new set of tires...

No ice at all, just snow. Its also really cold so its not even a wet snow. It is very slick though.

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

Snows around here don't make any sense, we don't get enough snow to warrant them. Its a real shame, I really like the tires in all other respects and I'd hate like hell to have to pay for another new set of tires...
No ice at all, just snow. Its also really cold so its not even a wet snow. It is very slick though.

←

I assume that as tim suggested that your tire pressures are all good......the other thing I should mention......as you stated, that it's been "really cold".....that might be part of the problem right there. "All season" tires as a general rule start to lose traction & optimal performance capabilities (because of the type of rubber compounds used in the making of the tire.......I'm not a scientist or engineer by any stretch, so I won't bore anybody with the specific details compared to winter tires) when the temperature reaches minus -7 degrees celsius ( or 19.4 degrees Fahrenheit) & below. This effects many factors of which a tire can perform, ride, grip, corner & the like, the way we come to 'expect' if you will. I too notice a difference in very 'extreme' cold say below minus -15 celsius (or 5 degrees fahrenheit in BOTH bad weather & dry roads) & below which we have had here the last couple days here in Toronto.

If I can make a suggestion......and that would be to 'slightly' alter your driving habits to compensate for this during the cold snap & let us know if you notice any significant change in how the tire reacts & performs then. I understand your immeadiate frustration with your experence (again I had a similar reaction during my recent incident initially), but try that over the next couple of days & tell us what you think & how you feel at that point. B) The 'perfect' tire has yet to be invented in any 'category' whether it be all season, summer or winter......you are going to have to sacriface one or two things in one area, to gain one or more things in another.......in this case, 'overall' winter performance is hampered when it's very cold out on slippery roads. Most (if not all) all seasons give this up when performing winter duty......some are better than others & some are just plain unsafe. I have yet to place the Toyo TPT in that (unsafe) category. My wife however has had not 1 complaint with her Falken Ziex ZE-512 & she just came home from a 50 mile drive (east of Toronto) with 6-8 inch snowfall today & her traction control did not engage once. :blink: Go figure.

Those who have the Toyo Proxes TPT's on their Lexus (of ANY model), if you wouldn't mind....I know Doug (lexusk8) has them on his 01 ES as well.....if it's relevant (IE: winter driving conditions, not Florida now) please feel free to put your 2 cents in with your experences with this tire. :)

:cheers:

SW03ES · January 20, 2005

Its not REALLY cold here, but it was 22-25 farenheit so I guess that falls into the -7 degree celsius category. I can't recall whether or not other storms I've driven the car in have been that cold but I doubt it, we really don't usually get that cold here and when we do have snow it stays around freezing. I did take our Prius out right after I got home for comparison and it did much better on the stock Goodyear Integrity's, all the same VSC equipment and FWD. Bear in mind that the sideways pulling on takeoff is DESPITE the VSC, just like the LS does. Never had that with the Bridgestones and didn't get that with the Prius. Air pressures are all fine. Steering stability was also not as good as the Prius but the Lexus is a lot heavier.

Not really possible to alter my driving habits, I've got a lot of experience driving in the snow and my experience today was happening while I was being very careful because of the poor traction.

I've been searching around and I can't find any serious complaints about the tires in the snow, if everyone was having experiences like these trust me you'd read complaints all over the place...

Maybe it was just a combined set of variables that reduced the tire's performance. Different rubber compounds would react differently, and different brand tires have different rubber compounds...

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

Not really possible to alter my driving habits, I've got a lot of experience driving in the snow and my experience today was happening while I was being very careful because of the poor traction.
I've been searching around and I can't find any serious complaints about the tires in the snow, if everyone was having experiences like these trust me you'd read complaints all over the place...

Maybe it was just a combined set of variables that reduced the tire's performance. Different rubber compounds would react differently, and different brand tires have different rubber compounds...

←

Please don't get me wrong sw when I suggested to 'alter' your driving habits.....I was by no means implying that your reckless or ignore the road conditions when reduced traction & slower speed are warranted. ;) You know your ES better than anyone. B)

I would also agree that since there are quite a few folks have put the TPT's on their Lexus that if they were that bad (myself included) there would be people screaming mad (probably mainly at me since I am the one that has very high praise for them & have & continue to recommend them as a very good performance all season tire) :whistles: to tell everyone about their experences (that's why I posed the question & am asking other Lexus owners for their feedback about the TPT). If anybody has something to say good OR bad, please speak up.

I understand what you mean that you don't think winter tires are necessary where you live (I'm the exact same way & I love in Toronto! :blink: ). That's why I purchase one of the best possible all season tires (as of a year ago at least in my tire size) available, because I have not the time, money, storage space nor the patience for 2 set's of wheels & tires & the aggravation that goes with it & by the sounds of it.......your pretty much the same as me am I right? ;)

Are there better choices out there? perhaps.....depending on what someone looks for in a tire & based on many factors ('all season' traction, treadwear, price, ride, speed ratings, performance, comfort & the like). The Toyo's would still be on my short list however all things considered, but that may change when my tires need replacing in about 40,000 miles & 2+ years. :)

:cheers:

steviej · January 20, 2005

personally I think the Bridgy Potenza RE92 where a 1/2 step up from bald tires in the snow. Absolutely the worst thing I have ever ridden on in the snow.

We have had several snow storms and one is currently going on right now.

I can't speak for the Toyos as I don't have them. The Dunlop Sport A2's are decent in the snow. I am quite impressed. We ain't talking jack rabbit starts, but now spinns, no fish tails in the corners and no side stepping on as you describe.

Remeber, these are not snow tires, they are all season radials. They are not designed for snow accumulation over several inches.

The Prius may have been better feeling in the snow because the tire width is less than that of the ES, right?

Steve, we got more snow coming, so be careful out there.

steviej

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

personally I think the Bridgy Potenza RE92 where a 1/2 step up from bald tires in the snow. Absolutely the worst thing I have ever ridden on in the snow.
steviej

←

Agreed Steve.....I have never driven on worse tire than these & out of principal, I'll never get Bridgestome OR Firestone (from my wife experrence with the Firehawk GTA-01) again! B)

:cheers:

bartkat · January 20, 2005

If we get snow or ice here, they just close the roads. Happens maybe every 5 to 7 years. :D

khhoang · January 20, 2005

If we get snow or ice here, they just close the roads. Happens maybe every 5 to 7 years. :D

←

not just the roads.. schools and offices!! LOL anyways, i'm not surprised about the Toyos performance in snow/icy roads after reading these users ratings in those road conditions.. luckily we don't have that problem down here.

http://www.1010tires.com/Toyo_Proxes_TPT_tires.html

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

See, some say they love them in the snow, some don't even see snow, while others say they are not that good in the snow.......a little bit of everything on the 1010 tires site. Snow & ice is not the Toyo's primary function to begin with & yes if it is that bad out side.......commom sense should prevail & you shouldn't be going out to begin with. :rolleyes: I have yet to see someone that does use winter rubber trade them in for a set of all seasons. :blink: & I doubt I will anytime soon. B) IF this was strictly a winter tire & it was getting these kind of complaints, that would be an entirely different story! ;)

:cheers:

mburnickas · January 20, 2005

Well, we got about 3 inches of snow here today, our road crews are notoriously bad. By the time I was out in it the main roads were more or less clear while the surface streets, and all the streets leading to my house were still snow covered. I got to try my new Toyos out in the snow for the first time...
What a dissapointment.

These tires took what was a pretty good snow car and turned it into a total pig. Its as bad as my dad's RWD LS which I consider almost undrivable in the snow. I drove the car through several snowstorms on the original Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires and they were exponentially better. Takeoff with the Toyos is a sideways proposition, and turning and stopping all require much more care than the Bridgestones. What a black eye on such a great tire, they're just so much better than the Bridgestones in every way...except in the snow. I won't drive it in the snow again with those tires if I can help it.

That leaves me with an interesting dillemma, we're supposed to have a pretty bad winter here this year, but the Toyos have only a little over 10k on them and they have 90% of the tread life left probably. I'm tempted to go back and have something else put on it...

←

BINGO! They are not like my old pair of Dunlaps. They are good but not as good as them! So I agree.

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

BINGO! They are not like my old pair of Dunlaps. They are good but not as good as them! So I agree.

←

You agree with what exactly mburn? :blink: The fact he should put a different set of all season tires on? or? :ph34r: :whistles: :huh: Which specific Dunlop's did you have?

:cheers:

mburnickas · January 20, 2005

BINGO! They are not like my old pair of Dunlaps. They are good but not as good as them! So I agree.

←

You agree with what exactly mburn? :blink: The fact he should put a different set of all season tires on? or? :ph34r: :whistles: :huh: Which specific Dunlop's did you have?

:cheers:

←

I agree that that the Toyo Proxes TPT's are poor in the snow. I had the Dunlap 4000's which weared very quick (22K miles) but were great in the snow.

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

BINGO! They are not like my old pair of Dunlaps. They are good but not as good as them! So I agree.

←

You agree with what exactly mburn? :blink: The fact he should put a different set of all season tires on? or? :ph34r: :whistles: :huh: Which specific Dunlop's did you have?

:cheers:

←

I agree that that the Toyo Proxes TPT's are poor in the snow. I had the Dunlap 4000's which weared very quick (22K miles) but were great in the snow.

←

Dunlop 4000 are not highly rated for snow traction as the link below will state. Your right about them wearing quickly too.....only a 240 or 340 treadwear rating depending on the size. ;) The TPT's are rated good in the snow BTW.......not so good on 'icy' surfaces (big difference). B) The Canidian 'tirerack' site if you will www.tiretrends.com do not even carry those Dunlop's anymore. :blink:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...romCompare1=yes

:cheers:

mburnickas · January 20, 2005

Dunlop 4000 are not highly rated for snow traction as the link below will state. Your right about them wearing quickly too.....only a 240 or 340 treadwear rating depending on the size. ;) The TPT's are rated good in the snow BTW.......not so good on icy surfaces (big difference). B) The Canidian 'tirerack' site if you will www.tiretrends.com do not even carry them anymore. :blink:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?ti...romCompare1=yes

:cheers:

←

I agree but so far in the 3 little storms we have had the Toyo's are not that great. Even the wife does not like driving the car now...Not that I mind! :)

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

I agree but so far in the 3 little storms we have had the Toyo's are not that great. Even the wife does not like driving the car now...Not that I mind! :)

←

lol mburn. ;) No problems personally in snow (up to about 2.5 - 3").....ice however, I stay home. B)

:cheers:

SW03ES · January 20, 2005

I'm not saying the Bridgestones were good in the snow, I'm just saying the car handled better in the snow with them than it did yesterday in the snow with the Toyos. Whether that was because of any extraneous variables I don't know but we have a bigger snow coming Saturday and we'll see how it drives in that. I don't have any experience with any other tires in the snow on this car, I have experience with the Dunlop 4000s and 5000s in the snow but that was on the LS and it'd take snow tires to make it driveable. All I know is there was no confidence in the car at all, whereas it felt very confident in the snow before. A FWD car with all the sophisticated skid control systems it has should be drivable in 2 inches of snow.

I called my dad and asked him what he thought of the Toyos yesterday (he has them on his 04 LS) and he said they didn't make it any worse than it usually is.

jbarhorst2 · January 20, 2005

I recently had the TPTs put on my SC300 and I don't really care for them either. Initially they were not balanced properly and that really vibrated the car. Only after going to another place could I get them properly balanced, so that's not the fault of the tires.

However, I have noticed 2 things in comparison to my OE tires. The TPTs do not ride nearly as smoothly and the TPTs are much more prone to slippage. That is in rain and snow. I don't really care for their grip.

That says a lot since my OE tires were the Goodyears (and I'm not really a Goodyear fan).

Tom

mburnickas · January 20, 2005

I recently had the TPTs put on my SC300 and I don't really care for them either. Initially they were not balanced properly and that really vibrated the car. Only after going to another place could I get them properly balanced, so that's not the fault of the tires.
However, I have noticed 2 things in comparison to my OE tires. The TPTs do not ride nearly as smoothly and the TPTs are much more prone to slippage. That is in rain and snow. I don't really care for their grip.

That says a lot since my OE tires were the Goodyears (and I'm not really a Goodyear fan).

Tom

←

They are good dry but the grip when on snow, well, sucks! Rain is typical for a tire. For the price I paid, next time might not be toyo's.

I know just looking at the thread pattern my Dunlaps had more bite it looks.

Lexusfreak · January 20, 2005

As far as rain goes (especially heavy rain) I found the Toyo's just awesome, with no hydroplaining or slipping......both on city streets & highway speeds. B) My complaint is ice & that's it......after about 4 - 6 decent snowfalls so far this winter season, not one problem getting around with them. ;) I do however have (along with the Toyo's), the Falken Ziex ZE-512 & the new Goodyear Triple Treads (which actually have a special mixture in it's compound that grips bites into ice) are other tires I would consider. I'm just not sure about the speed ratings for the 02+ ES.....I can get them in an H speed rating, which is only 1 rating down from V.

www.goodyearassurance.com

:cheers:

SW03ES · January 21, 2005

I'm happy with the noise isolation and the ride, mine seem to be getting quieter as they age.

Lexusfreak · January 21, 2005

I'm happy with the noise isolation and the ride, mine seem to be getting quieter as they age.

←

Same here....much quieter than the Michelin MXV4's that were on my ES. ;)

:cheers:

mburnickas · January 21, 2005

I'm happy with the noise isolation and the ride, mine seem to be getting quieter as they age.

←

Same here....much quieter than the Michelin MXV4's that were on my ES. ;)

←

I posted the noise question right after I got my new tires. It is either the noise is going away with age or I am just getting used to it.

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