Engine Failure - '99 Es300

[coltonb]

I have a '99 ES300, 125k miles. I had posted back in August when I got a sensor replaced, and everyone suggested I get my engine checked for sludge. The dealer didn't find anything when i asked during sensor replacement. Have religiously (every 3,000 +/- miles, at PepBoys) had oil replaced with regular, non-synthetic.

The car has burned some oil (1 QT+/-) every 1,500 miles, some exhaust smoke if car had sat 4-5 hours w/o driving, but not if it sat for longer.

This weekend I'm in the country, and the check oil light comes on. I pull over, check oil (has been 1,200 mi since last change), is plenty of oil, and head for nearest toyota dealership (Haddad, in Pittsfield MA) - 10 miles.

By the time i get there, the engine is making funny knocking noises. They check it this AM, and report that i have melted my tie rods and need a new engine.

Lexus corporate says I have to have it sent to Lexus dealership for inspection before they can say if it is a sludge related failure. Nearest dealer is 70 miles away. (New Country, in Latham, NY)

Before I plunk down a couple hundred dollars for a tow, I'm looking for some help from all you helpful folks as to your advice.

[ArmyofOne]

I have a '99 ES300, 125k miles. I had posted back in August when I got a sensor replaced, and everyone suggested I get my engine checked for sludge. The dealer didn't find anything when i asked during sensor replacement. Have religiously (every 3,000 +/- miles, at PepBoys) had oil replaced with regular, non-synthetic.

The car has burned some oil (1 QT+/-) every 1,500 miles, some exhaust smoke if car had sat 4-5 hours w/o driving, but not if it sat for longer.

This weekend I'm in the country, and the check oil light comes on. I pull over, check oil (has been 1,200 mi since last change), is plenty of oil, and head for nearest toyota dealership (Haddad, in Pittsfield MA) - 10 miles.

By the time i get there, the engine is making funny knocking noises.  They check it this AM, and report that i have melted my tie rods and need a new engine.

Lexus corporate says I have to have it sent to Lexus dealership for inspection before they can say if it is a sludge related failure.  Nearest dealer is 70 miles away. (New Country, in Latham, NY)

Before I plunk down a couple hundred dollars for a tow, I'm looking for some help from all you helpful folks as to your advice.

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First off, any dealer that says your tie rods melted and you need a new engine is completely reatarded, since they have absolutely ntohing to do with one another and your tie rods cant "melt", as they are part of the steering system.

However, i will assume the dealer said "rods" and you thought tie rods when you were typing, so here goes...

The rods in your engine are called Piston Connecting rods. They connect the Piston to the Crankshaft. Every part inside of an engine needs oil to keep heat and friction levels down. The oil pressure light comes on to signify low oil pressure, you shouldnt drive any farther, or you risk damaging your engine, same as with the low oil level light. Conrods cannot MELT in an engine such as this. The engine would have to run with no oil for many hours, by which point it would have been long seized. You can, however, melt the Rod Bearings. If one of them spins for lack of lubrication, it will knock, and cause a dead cylinder. The crankshaft will spin, but the piston wont move, and the rod will "knock" on the crank every time it comes around a revolution. If the bearing melted and seized, then it Broke the conrod, whioch produces the same result, a cylinder that doesnt work.

As a result, you crank is scored, and your cylinder walls have scores in them as well.

Both of these conditions mean engine out and rebuild time.

[SKperformance]

needs to be looked at by a professional.

it may be large amounts of carbon build up and that would have caused the knocking as well as the smoke on short term parking only.

If it runs get it checked and make sure your gas isn't bad.

All in all a motorvac may be in order to remedy your car for $100

although the sludge and carbon issue is a problem on your year car, lexus will provide a new engine free of charge with the appropriate receipts

[steviej]

have Lexus tow the car for you or reimburse you for the tow.

Either way, get the car to Lexus if that's what it takes to get a new engine!!!!!!

steviej

[ArmyofOne]

have Lexus tow the car for you or reimburse you for the tow.

Either way, get the car to Lexus if that's what it takes to get a new engine!!!!!!

steviej

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to check for cludge, open the oil cap and shine a flashlight inside the valve cover...is it brown and sludgy? if so thats your problem.

**DISCLAIMER** this method doesnt always work, it only allows you to see a small part of the engine...

[Lexusfreak]

Did you have your ES towed col?

[coltonb]

Thanks everyone so far. I feel stupid for actually typing in tie rod. Nothing like a major breakdown to throw one for a loop. Here's an update:

The update from the toyota dealer is that it is a spun rod. Codes are P0302 (missfre in #2 cylinder) and P1349 (malfunction in VVT system). Oil pressure is 91.2 LB cold, "oil pressure lost because spun bearing is leaking oil by it".

Given this, my first question is: what, other than sludging, could have caused the problem?

My second question is: what receipts are "appropriate receipts"? I have gone to Pep Boys and they are printing out my service history, which will show lots of oil changes, with mileages for each. What does manual call for? (i woldn't bother asking if my manual wasn't in my glove box, with my EZ pass, damn it, 120 miles away).

I apologize for my rambling. I guess the final question is: Anyone know an inexpensive tow company in the berkshires?

[bartkat]

Go here and plug in your data and you can get the maintenance schedule.

http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/vehicle.do

Component Description:

2. ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE 

Bulletin Number:  010102

Bulletin Date:  JAN 2002

Vehicle: 1999 Lexus ES 300

Summary:

SPECIAL POLICY ADJUSTMENT FOR CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED SPECIFIC MECHANICAL ENGINE PROBLEMS ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE CONDITION KNOWN AS OIL GELLING OR SLUDGE. *TT

[steviej]

PepBoys work history is more than adequate. Now talk it out with Lexus. Find out if the tow is part of the warranty work if your car falls under the sludge replacement policy.

If not, do you know anyone with AAA? Have them get the car towed under their name.

steviej

[coltonb]

D'OH!!! - AAA - of course....

have faxed lexus the pep boys records..... let's see what they say...

[SKperformance]

Lexus may cover the tow.

[ArmyofOne]

Thanks everyone so far. I feel stupid for actually typing in tie rod. Nothing like a major breakdown to throw one for a loop. Here's an update:

The update from the toyota dealer is that it is a spun rod. Codes are P0302 (missfre in #2 cylinder) and P1349 (malfunction in VVT system). Oil pressure is 91.2 LB cold, "oil pressure lost because spun bearing is leaking oil by it".

Given this, my first question is: what, other than sludging, could have caused the problem?

My second question is: what receipts are "appropriate receipts"? I have gone to Pep Boys and they are printing out my service history, which will show lots of oil changes, with mileages for each. What does manual call for? (i woldn't bother asking if my manual wasn't in my glove box, with my EZ pass, damn it, 120 miles away).

I apologize for my rambling. I guess the final question is: Anyone know an inexpensive tow company in the berkshires?

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wasnt tryingto make you feel stupid, just clarifying...my apologies if i came off any other way.

a spun bearing can only be caused by a few things, oil starvation, a foregin object or material in the oil system (such as sand, as seen in the later model Ford 3.0L Duratech V6's built at the Windsor, Ohio plant.)or the piston striking something (i.e, timing chain/belt broken, piston hit head and supn bearing.)

i would say the probability is that oil sludge caused your issue.

[SKperformance]

high RPM's cause burnt bearings and channels

sludge is for the head assembly as it blocks the upper channels where it has tiny jets

Sludge is a possibility but a small one for the bottom end enless it blocked the oil pump which would have turned on the low oil pressure light

[97LexBow]

Was the engine only knocking if you had it on Drive or would it knock if it was on Park also

What if your a do it yourselfer when it comes to oil changes how can you prove to lexus

[ArmyofOne]

high RPM's cause burnt bearings and channels

oh yeah, i forgot that one...thanks SK.

im new to the whole sludge issue, as i am new to toyota/lexus and have never seen it on any other make/model with any frequency, but giving the benefit of the doubt, i would certianly like to think that this particular owner didnt let his oil level get too low, or over-rev his/her motor.

[SKperformance]

needs to be looked at by a professional.

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high RPM's cause burnt bearings and channels

but giving the benefit of the doubt, i would certianly like to think that this particular owner didnt let his oil level get too low, or over-rev his/her motor.

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don't really know anything about the owner or the car

[bartkat]

If I remember correctly a rod bearing would knock when you rev a little and let off the gas. A main bearing would knock under load.

[coltonb]

Was the engine only knocking if you had it on Drive or would it knock if it was on Park also

What if your a do it yourselfer when it comes to oil changes how can you prove to lexus

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Was knocking in park as well. Loudness was proportinate to how much gas i gave it, and frequency of knocks related to RPM.

Never changed oil myself. fortunately have the receipts from when it was done that show date and mileage.

I submitted the last six months / 20,000 miles of records, (showng an oil change a month, on average every 3,600 miles) and the service manager is now saying it's a start, but he'll need records of EVERY oil change I've ever had since owning the car to qualify for a full replacement!!!

I'll dig out some more, but is this reasonable? Who keeps receips of oil changes for three years?!?!?

[mxl4729]

Was the engine only knocking if you had it on Drive or would it knock if it was on Park also

What if your a do it yourselfer when it comes to oil changes how can you prove to lexus

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Was knocking in park as well. Loudness was proportinate to how much gas i gave it, and frequency of knocks related to RPM.

Never changed oil myself. fortunately have the receipts from when it was done that show date and mileage.

I submitted the last six months / 20,000 miles of records, (showng an oil change a month, on average every 3,600 miles) and the service manager is now saying it's a start, but he'll need records of EVERY oil change I've ever had since owning the car to qualify for a full replacement!!!

I'll dig out some more, but is this reasonable? Who keeps receips of oil changes for three years?!?!?

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I thought it was a 8 year, unlimited mileage, goodwill repair for this condition. tell them it is not goodwill to jerk u around

[coltonb]

not feeling a whole lot of goodwill right now, that's for sure....

[ArmyofOne]

not feeling a whole lot of goodwill right now, that's for sure....

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Was knocking in park as well. Loudness was proportinate to how much gas i gave it, and frequency of knocks related to RPM.

classic rod bearing(s)/main bearing(s)

the motor has to come out for this one. sorry for the bad news.

[steviej]

not feeling a whole lot of goodwill right now, that's for sure....

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call 1-800-25-LEXUS and speak to one of the customer service reps, then have them speak with the service manager at the dealership you are dealing with.

What you have provided should be proof enough that you have made a reasonable attempt at proper oil changes. Your service manage is just dragging his feet. I can fax you the letter I got from Lexus corporate pertaining to sludging and the goodwill gesture Lexus has offered should an engine sludge. No where does it state by Lexus what constitutes a "reasonable attempt" nor does it require every single oil change reciept. I have read posts here and on CL about members that have had their engines replaced with barely any reciepts.

You could also try another Lexus dealership.

good luck.

steviej

[coltonb]

Thanks steviej. Would try another dealership if there was another one w/in 100 miles of where my car is now!

I have found more records going back to 10/03 / 86,000 miles (another five oil changes, for a change on average of 3,200 miles) and will forward to dealer. Unfortunately, before that my usual service place was not a chain and was demolished and turned in to high-rise luxury condos...

If they still give grief, will have corporate cust serv. contact dealer.

such a nightmare.

[coltonb]

oh - could you also fax that over setviej? I'd like to see how they have handled in the past. My office fax is (973) 299-3001, and put my name on it - Colton Brown.

many thanks. If only lexus corporate was as helpful and supportive as the lexus community...

[steviej]

Colton, I am working on Sunday so I will fax it from work.

steviej