Please Do Me A Favour

[CanadaCraig]

Hi Guys!! :)

Please click on THIS and download a 4MB video of my 1993 Lexus LS400 gauges as I am going from zero to 60 mph. [and beyond] The results are always the same. Could you THEN [after watching the little video] let me know IF I am imagining things or IF my LS400 really DOES take longer than it should to get up to speed.

I would really appreciate it.

For comparison purposes - it would make more sense if other owners of the 1st generation LS would respond. [but I would be grateful for any responses]

Thank you very much.

Craig!! :)

[KY350]

Hi CandaCraig - had a look at your video. At first I though everything was ok as your car took about 8s to get to 60. Then I noticed that your car got to 60mph without a gear change, which I know is not possible. Then I remebered that your from Canada and your speeds are measured in km/h not mph.

So then I timed your run to 100km/h and it took about 13s - way too long to be within normal tolerences. According to our American friends, the LS should take about 8s flat to get to 60mph (96km/h). So I would expect no more than an 8.5s sprint from 0-100km/h.

I must admit that I have only had my 1991 LS for 1.5 weeks and the thought of hammering the throttle from standstill to beyond 100km/h has never crossed my mind in this car - I confine the spirited driving to my sports car. However, I will fang my LS tomorrow and time the 0-100km/h sprit for you.

[lovlex]

the car sounds good

[obergc]

Craig,

You have been writing about your LS's sluggish performance for some time and I think that you are correct in your assessment. I just took my 93LS out for a little run and took an MPEG of the gauges during the run. My LS is getting to 60 in the 8-9 sec range and in one run, it started to rain and the TRAC Control was triggered twice during the run and it still got to 60 in less than 10 sec. Your car appears to be taking 12+ seconds. Send me your email addy and I will send you the mpeg file. Unfortunately the run where the TRAC lite was triggered is around 4 mpeg and is too big for my ISP. My email is obergc@cox.net. BTW, I just replaced my plugs, ignition wireset, dist. caps and rotors about 2 weeks ago and I run Shell 93 Oct gas

Curt

[GSsoldier]

*BLEEP* its the same with my car... i still dont know what the problem is... i have changed all the stuff obergc has too jsut not recently... i kinda just gave up on the speed now ....

[CanadaCraig]

Hi KY350!! :)

I appreciate the response to my quest for help. I bet you [at first] were quite surprised at just how quickly my LS got to 120 MPH then!! lol I look forward to hearing just how quickly YOUR car gets to 60. [or should I say 100 kph!!]

Hi lovlex!! :)

Thanks for the reply. Yes - I think it sounds pretty good. Which is odd - in a way. It even drives quite nicely. So why is it so slow?! Hopefully I'll find out soon. I just want to make sure that my car really IS slower than most generation ONE LS's. It also doesn't seem to want to go beyond 100 mph [160 kph] or so. At least I've never been able to get beyond that. [because I always run out of both road AND nerve] This is why I posted this message and took the time to create that little video. [which quite a few have bothered to see but not bothered to comment on - YET]

Curt!! :)

I really REALLY appreciate you taking the time to mpeg your gauges as you drove YOUR LS up to 60. AND for letting me know that it took 8 to 9 seconds to accomplish the 'feat'. [and still less than 10 even with the TRAC light flashing] So obviously - my LS is not as quick as it ought to be. My LS - like yours - is as tuned up as it can be. There is even a new 'Throttle Control Sensor'. [the dealer thinking that THAT might have been the culprit] It made no difference - unfortunately. I'm also 'running' on Chevron 94 octane. My car did have [still have?] a bad gas problem when I first bought it. The fuel injectors have been cleaned and the fuel filter has been replaced. Both of which helped. I wonder if the filter that is attached to the fuel pump might be clogged up a bit. It's a bit like trying to find a mouse in a football stadium. I'd love to see your mpeg. My email address is nsxboy@shaw.ca Thanks again.

Hi GSsoldier!! :)

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry to hear that your car has the same problem as mine. I wonder - did your car ever have a 'bad gas' problem. [the problem - with my car - was caused by the previous owner leaving the car parked half the year - EVERY YEAR - while she went 'south' to help her old bones - so I've been told] If I find out what the problem is - believe me - you'll hear about here!! So stay tuned!!

AND for the rest of you? Have you watched the little video yet? If so - please let me know if YOU think that my LS is taking longer than it should to get up to 60 mph. [or 100 kph - as is the case]

Thanks again,

Craig!! :)

[GSsoldier]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry to hear that your car has the same problem as mine. I wonder - did your car ever have a 'bad gas' problem. [the problem - with my car - was caused by the previous owner leaving the car parked half the year - EVERY YEAR - while she went 'south' to help her old bones - so I've been told] If I find out what the problem is - believe me - you'll hear about here!! So stay tuned!!

i never had bad gas my car is daily driven, it racks up at least 10 miles a day, i fill it will 92 costco gas, but maybe its the wieght of the car thats doing it and/or maybe the tires too, i replaced mine a while back still pretty recent, maybe curt has no excess wieght in trunk including no spare... ahh well haha about going pass 160 km/h what u could do is one night turn off all interior lights and then just gas it hard, after u feel like u are going too fast turn them back on see what u are going at, then every chance u get try and get faster then u felt the night before, i've been doing that, it helps me calm down sometimes... i took my car to 135mph before... its a bit scary... hitting 100mph is a breeze now

-joe

[99lsguy]

Craig,

I've watched it........very nice engine sound

I have no idea why it takes so long....

You have a new air filter, clean thottle body, plugs, wires, etc....

maybe the MAF sensor is faulty........something is restricting the 1uzfe engine from unleashing a little more of its punch!!

[GRAND_LS 4]

Craig,

I've watched it........very nice  engine sound

I have no idea why it  takes so long....

You have a new air filter,  clean thottle body, plugs, wires, etc....

maybe the MAF sensor is faulty........something is restricting the 1uzfe engine from unleashing a little more of its punch!!

←

Wow, takes WAYYYYYYYYYYY too long. Seems like an electronic issue, i just dont know what it is.

I wish I had a nice cam to make you a video of how it should be, I can get that fast with 60% of the throttle. Wish I can provide some more help, but i'll tell you for sure, its not what it supposed to be.

[blake918]

Wow, your car sounds great!! I've downloaded the video so that I can listen to the 4.0 over and over again! What parts have you changed/services done on your car so far?

[Lexusfreak]

Agreed! I thought the LS sounded great in the video clip as well. B) Keep in mind that when a car company give a 0 - 60 time, it under 'ideal' conditions which includes the best roads, weather & other factors in getting the lowest time possible. Always read the 'fine print' of vehicle testing to get a better idea how it was tested & where (many are tested inside under controlled conditions & results vary in the 'real world'). :)

[UCF3]

Well it sounds like my LS. Slow. How many miles do you have on your LS?

I think it might be rebuild time.

[UCF3]

nah, you don't need to rebuild your motor. Maybe your tranny, but it looks normal with ECT (ON). You could look into having your Torque converter adjusted.

[blake918]

I just went and tested my car. I got to 60 in about 7.8 seconds and to 95 in about 14.9 seconds...all on a '95 LS400 with 240,290 miles. I only have 10hp more than the first gen cars, so I would imagine their times would be somewhere around mine; not to mention, I have a bunch of crap in my trunk. I tried posting the mpeg, but the site wouldn't let me eventhough it says unlimited space in the attachment space. I'd like to hear from some '98+ guys with the 290hp engines!

[CanadaCraig]

WOW!! Just look at all the great responses!! Thanks!!

Hi Joe!! :)

LOL Hey!! That sounds like a great idea!! [it really does] Will you post bail?! lol Trouble is - the way my car is now - by the time I hit 160 kph - I'd be home again!!

Hi 99lsguy!! :)

Yes - as you know - I've done a lot to my LS since I bought it just over a year ago. Complete valve job, new spark plugs, new spark plug wires, new water pump, new fuel filter, new timing belt and accessory belt, etc. The injectors have been cleaned - twice. The fuel pump has been checked and I've had several oil/filter changes. Even the transmission and differential fluids have been changed. And just last week [after all of the computers were checked] one of the 'throttle control sensors' was replaced. [because it - apparently - wasn't 'arching' as it should have been] Still... after all of this... I can't out race an automatic Ford Tempo. [how humiliating!! lol] Could it be 'varnish' build-up in the fuel lines?! [because of the fuel that was allowed to go 'bad' - courtesy of the previous owner]

Hi GRAND_LS 4!!

I wish you could help me too!! But YES - it IS slow. And now I know just HOW slow. Thanks to Curt - who emailed me a video or HIS '93 LS gauges as he drove as quickly as he could up to and beyond 60 mph. His car is so much quicker than my car. My car - in comparison - is pathetic!!

Hi blake918!! :)

It does sound kinda nice - I'll have to admit. But that just adds to the confusion. [insofar as trying to find out what the problem is] As for what's been done to my car - please read my response [above] to 99lsguy. If you like nice engine sounds - you should hear my NSX. [click on the link below and click on NSX MOVIES found on the left hand side of that cardomain.com site of mine]

I appreciate you taking the time to test your car. 7.8 seconds sure sounds like a lot more fun than 13 seconds!! [well... when it comes to cars at least!!] I'd also like to hear how fast those 290 h.p. LS's are!!

Hi Lexusfreak!! :)

I appreciate what you're saying - however - every '90 to '94 LS road test that I've read has come up with 0 to 60 mph test results similiar to the one's proclaimed by Lexus. In other words - pretty darn close to 7.9 seconds to 60 mph. Sure - a few tests of have taken a bit longer - like the one in 1994 that pitted the LS against the new Cadillac Sedan de Ville. [the LS in that test took 8.7 seconds to get to 60 - if my memory serves] Still.. when comparing my car with Curt's car - there is no doubt. My car is a slug.

Hi UCF3!! :)

My 1993 LS400 only has about 68,000 miles. So I would hope that an engine-rebuild is NOT in the cards!! I'll talk to my dealer about the torque converter. Thanks.

I genuinely appreciate all the help. Any other thoughts? PLEASE don't hesitate to share them with me.

Craig!! :)

[SRK]

Craig the car seems fine once it gets rolling, but it appears to me to be somewhat sluggish off the line. That's where most of the time is going I think.

A couple of things come to mind. Has the throttle linkage been checked for full opening? It is mechanical, and if the cable has come out of adjustment, it may not be opening fully. Also one or more of the cats may be plugging up slightly, and the backpressure will reduce power and yet let the engine run smoothly.

I have offered before and I will again - I live in the same town as you and would be happy to drive the car, or go for a ride. I repair cars, teach auto and small engine repair, and have driven at least 7 different LS and 2 GS, ES, IS, and SC. I know them fairly well now. You can PM me if you like.

SRK

[ArmyofOne]

i cant see the vid! can someone convert to wmvformat plz?? or even quicktime?

EDIT: NVM i figured it out...

ok, i noticed your ECT is on, try turning that off and see how it feels...any change?

you said something about throttle body cleaning.

take off your airbox and look at the throttle body. pull on the trhottle cable and look to see if your butterfly is opening all the way...

i know its clean, btu maybe the cable has stretched. i have never heard of it happening on toyotas, but fords dothis frequently. mine old ranger needed a new accelerator cable at around 650,000 miles.

also, you said something about old gas.

old gas will do this, and if your fuel lines have varnish in them, that could very well be the problem. if its possible to "pressure test" this fuel system, by all means, have that done, cause i can garuntee one thing...i can beat you in my 1990 ES250, which has almost twice the miles and a massive set of oil leaks.

[GRAND_LS 4]

I just went and tested my car. I got to 60 in about 7.8 seconds and to 95 in about 14.9 seconds...all on a '95 LS400 with 240,290 miles. I only have 10hp more than the first gen cars, so I would imagine their times would be somewhere around mine; not to mention, I have a bunch of crap in my trunk. I tried posting the mpeg, but the site wouldn't let me eventhough it says unlimited space in the attachment space. I'd like to hear from some '98+ guys with the 290hp engines!

←

I got a few 6.4's on my G-tech for 0-60's in the summer time. Will test again in the colder weather, but waiting for my car to finish up some work its getting done. The LS is wicked powerful, totally underrated.

[CanadaCraig]

Hi SRK!! :)

I appreciate the help. I also appreciate the offer to go for ride, etc. However - I'm just not comfortable with that idea. [for one reason or another] Nothing personal - I assure you. My car is going back in on Thursday. I'll be sure to mention the throttle linkage. I'll also ask them to check the 'cats' to see if something is wrong there. Trouble is - now [i think] they're humouring me because THEY don't think there is a problem with my car. But I wonder how satisfied they would be if a car they bought took anywhere from 4 to 6 seconds LONGER to get up to 100 kph then other cars of the same year, make and model.

Hi ArmyofOne!!

Thanks for the suggustions. I'll ask them [this Thursday] to do a fuel line pressure test. [if that's possible] But only after everything else has been checked, fixed and/or adjusted. [such as the throttle 'butterfly', etc.] If it IS 'bad gas' and varnish HAS narrowed the fuel lines - then what?! Can something like that be cleaned? Or is that a HUGE job? [i.e. huge $$$] Oh no... I'm getting myself all worried again!!

As for testing it from 0 to 60 - I've tried everything - ECT on, ECT off, pedal to the metal, pedal just to the overdrive button, pedal half way down THEN to the floor. Nothing makes it faster then what you saw on the video. In fact - the video is the quickest my car CAN get up to 60.

Craig!! :)

[mickg]

Hi SRK!! :)

I appreciate the help. I also appreciate the offer to go for ride, etc. However - I'm just not comfortable with that idea. [for one reason or another] Nothing personal - I assure you. My car is going back in on Thursday. I'll be sure to mention the throttle linkage. I'll also ask them to check the 'cats' to see if something is wrong there. Trouble is - now [i think] they're humouring me because THEY don't think there is a problem with my car. But I wonder how satisfied they would be if a car they bought took anywhere from 4 to 6 seconds LONGER to get up to 100 kph then other cars of the same year, make and model.

Hi  ArmyofOne!!

Thanks for the suggustions. I'll ask them [this Thursday] to do a fuel line pressure test. [if that's possible] But only after everything else has been checked, fixed and/or adjusted. [such as the throttle 'butterfly', etc.] If it IS 'bad gas' and varnish HAS narrowed the fuel lines - then what?! Can something like that be cleaned? Or is that a HUGE job? [i.e. huge $$$] Oh no... I'm getting myself all worried again!!

As for testing it from 0 to 60 - I've tried everything - ECT on, ECT off, pedal to the metal, pedal just to the overdrive button, pedal half way down THEN to the floor. Nothing makes it faster then what you saw on the video. In fact - the video is the quickest my car CAN get up to 60.

Craig!! :)

←

Craig:

My '94 with 112K can get up to 60 in about 8+ seconds from a standing start and engine at idle, visually judging my watch.

Have you run a compression test on either bank? If all fails, put the unit on a chassis dyno and see if you are in the ball park with torque and hp production. I think the losses through engine attachments, transmission, diff and tires should soak up about 20% of engine output, but it should give you concrete indication that something is amiss.

Mick

[ArmyofOne]

Hi SRK!! :)

I appreciate the help. I also appreciate the offer to go for ride, etc. However - I'm just not comfortable with that idea. [for one reason or another] Nothing personal - I assure you. My car is going back in on Thursday. I'll be sure to mention the throttle linkage. I'll also ask them to check the 'cats' to see if something is wrong there. Trouble is - now [i think] they're humouring me because THEY don't think there is a problem with my car. But I wonder how satisfied they would be if a car they bought took anywhere from 4 to 6 seconds LONGER to get up to 100 kph then other cars of the same year, make and model.

Hi  ArmyofOne!!

Thanks for the suggustions. I'll ask them [this Thursday] to do a fuel line pressure test. [if that's possible] But only after everything else has been checked, fixed and/or adjusted. [such as the throttle 'butterfly', etc.] If it IS 'bad gas' and varnish HAS narrowed the fuel lines - then what?! Can something like that be cleaned? Or is that a HUGE job? [i.e. huge $$$] Oh no... I'm getting myself all worried again!!

As for testing it from 0 to 60 - I've tried everything - ECT on, ECT off, pedal to the metal, pedal just to the overdrive button, pedal half way down THEN to the floor. Nothing makes it faster then what you saw on the video. In fact - the video is the quickest my car CAN get up to 60.

Craig!! :)

←

Craig:

My '94 with 112K can get up to 60 in about 8+ seconds from a standing start and engine at idle, visually judging my watch.

Have you run a compression test on either bank? If all fails, put the unit on a chassis dyno and see if you are in the ball park with torque and hp production. I think the losses through engine attachments, transmission, diff and tires should soak up about 20% of engine output, but it should give you concrete indication that something is amiss.

Mick

←

his engine is running smooth, no reason for a compression test just yet.

craig: the fuel line varnish can be cleaned, but if its bad enough, the entire fuel system has to be replaced. lines, hoses, tank, injectors, everything.

run a high concentration (probably 2 bottles) of Chevron with Techron fuel system cleaner, and a tank of Sheel V-Power Gasoline (if its available in canada yet). you will pay between $2.00 and $2.50 a gallon US for this gas, but it is EXCELLENT gas.

i dont think you are to the point of having to replakce the gas tank and the lines, maybe the hoses to the fuel rail or the rail itself are clogged with varnish, but the double dose of techron with the V-power shoudl clear it right up...if the V-power isnst available near you, thats ok, Chevron Premium will work too.

let me know if this works. if the pressure test doesnt reveal anything, this is the next option.

if that doenst work, pull out a spark plug and lkook at the top of the cylinder, see if theyre is alot of carbon caked on the top of the piston. if there is, i have an at home remedy for cleaning that.

on a side note, could it just be that you are used to the NSX???

you have an NSX...so therfore, you suck...LOL B)

[SRK]

I understand Craig.

I think it is good to consider that your engine sounds perfectly fine. Many have commented on that. It is obviously smooth, and hitting on all cylinders. Therefore whatever the problem is, it is external to the basic engine. Hence my suggestion of throttle linkage, cats, or even the torque convertor.

No amount of fuel system cleaner, or compression testing, will help. You don't have bad gas. You don't have an engine trouble code, so the engine itself seems quite happy.

It might even be something like the traction control throttle plate stuck partially closed. My point is that whatever it is, it is not a fault within the engine.

For me, and on behalf of many others, please post the fix if and when the dealer figures it out.

SRK

[ArmyofOne]

I understand Craig.

I think it is good to consider that your engine sounds perfectly fine.  Many have commented on that.  It is obviously smooth, and hitting on all cylinders.  Therefore whatever the problem is, it is external to the basic engine.  Hence my suggestion of throttle linkage, cats, or even the torque convertor.

No amount of fuel system cleaner, or compression testing, will help.  You don't have bad gas.  You don't have an engine trouble code, so the engine itself seems quite happy. 

It might even be something like the traction control throttle plate stuck partially closed.  My point is that whatever it is, it is not a fault within the engine.

For me, and on behalf of many others, please post the fix if and when the dealer figures it out.

SRK

←

i agree here, but i am exploring all options, starting with the most simple, the fact is, i have seen carbon deposts and low fuel pressure cause this kind of decrease in performance, without decreaseing smoothness of the engine itself.

it coudl very well be a fult within the engine, but is a simple fix if it is. you are probably correct, it is MOST LIkely an issue external to the engien itself. im leaning more and more to the Throttle Body not opening fully...

[kcpth]

My car is kinda slow too on pickup. It is powerful thats for sure. My dad has driven the car to 140mph before... i didn't witness it cause i was sleeping in the car but my dad's friends were telling me my dad was crazy (in a sense... he is when it comes to driving) b/c they were pretty scared... he was caught @ 105mph that day by a trooper. Hehehehe.

But anyways, back to the point.... i do have the same problem as you. It doesn't bother me that much though.

Since the guys @ the lexus dealer is humoring you, they might not necessarily inspect it to their 100% capablilities since they just see you come in all the time. Do you actually watch them inspect? Or are they just comign to you and saying YUP it's fine. Perhaps go to another dealer within your area. I hope there is another one close by. Perhaps cross the border and see in Washington state's Lexus dealer. I seriously doubt they would just do soemthing like that, but hey, we are all human, and if we are lazy... then we are lazy.

Like someone posted before, the Air Mass Flow meter is fine rite?

Originally i was going to suggest getting a new ECU... but your car is rather young. I thought it would b an old !Removed! like mine. I read in another post that changing the ECU made a world of difference after trying to change everything and not having it work. But now realizing your car is young... you shouldn't have much to worry about.

I have left my car for over 8 months without driving it once or turning on the engine once.... boy that was a bad mistake. Car felt even more sluggish and started to rattle back n forth when i put it into drive along with crazy idling. But putting about two bottles of Chevron with Techron did help me out get out of the sluggishness of my car.... but was not able to bring my car to drive 0-60 in 8 secs.

Well i hope you solve your problem. N keep me posted along with your findings. Sorry i don't really have any good solutions for you since most of the guys had better ideas and know more what they are talking about than me. But good luck. B)

[CanadaCraig]

Thanks Mick, ArmyofOne, SRK and kcpth!! :)

I appreciate the input.

Just a quick note this time. [i should be somewhere else - but I'm late as usual!!]

Would the fact that my car REVS freely - out of gear - support SRK's belief that the engine itself is NOT the problem? Sounds logical enough - but I just want to double [and triple] check EVERYTHING before I march into the dealership on Thursday!!

You can click on THIS to go BACK to my little Lexus movie page and see and hear my Lexus rev. The slight delay at the beginning of the 'rev' is caused by ME being gentle on the pedal - at first. But it revs up to the redline very quickly. [even from idle]

And SRK - would it be OK with you if I 'name-dropped' your name at the dealership? I'd like to be able to say "a guy I talk to on the net - who just bought another Lexus from YOU GUYS - thinks that the problem is NOT the engine or with the gas but perhaps has something to do with the throttle linkage, cats, torque convertor or maybe even the traction control throttle plate being stuck partially closed." IF that's NOT OK with you - please let me know before noon tomorrow!! [and I know that others have made some of the same suggestions - but because SRK actually goes to the dealership I'm going to - it might give those suggestions a bit more weight]

Thanks again,

WISH ME LUCK!!

Craig!! :)

ps And by the way - SRK - congratulations on your 'new' car!! :D

pps Now I'm REALLY late!! lol