metaspace Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 I have 1998 ES300 with 86000 miles. Just wondering what is the best engine oil available for winters and summers. I live in NC, it snows here rarely may be few times in an year. I don't drive hard, need some expert opinion for high mileage engine like mine and city driving. Had some bad experience in the past with mitsubishi so little paranoid this time. So far I have used Castrol GTX 10W30 after 63K miles. As always all the replies are highly appreciated.
ArmyofOne Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 I have 1998 ES300 with 86000 miles. Just wondering what is the best engine oil available for winters and summers. I live in NC, it snows here rarely may be few times in an year. I don't drive hard, need some expert opinion for high mileage engine like mine and city driving. Had some bad experience in the past with mitsubishi so little paranoid this time. So far I have used Castrol GTX 10W30 after 63K miles. As always all the replies are highly appreciated. ← MOBIL 1 5W30 Full Synthetic.
hammer008 Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 Results for this test(all units in minutes): Amsoil: >500 (no break) Mobil1: 397 Pennzoil Purebase: 242 Castrol Syntec: 221 Valvoline: 219 Vavoline SynPower: 211 Mobil Drive Clean: 209 Quaker State Peak Performance: 192 Pennzoil Synthetic: 159 Quaker State Synthetic: 159 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 132 Test 2: High Temperature/High Shear (HT/HS) Measures a lube's performance under severe heat and shear (mechanical stress) as would be found in the journal bearings under heavy load. The units displayed are viscosity based, using the centipose unit (cP). The minimum spec for a 30w is 2.9 cP. Results for this test (all units in cP): Amsoil: 3.51 Quaker State Peak Performance: 3.37 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 3.35 Vavoline SynPower: 3.30 Mobil1: 3.30 Valvoline: 3.30 Mobil Drive Clean: 3.28 Pennzoil Purebase: 3.16 Quaker State Synthetic: 3.15 Pennzoil Synthetic: 3.14 Castrol Syntec: 3.13 Test 3: NOACK Volatility. Measures the evaporative loss of lubricants in high temperature conditions. The higher the number, the thicker the lubricant will become. API SL and GF-3 specs allow for a 15% evaporation limit. In this test, obviously, lower is better. Syns almost always have an advantage due to their monomolecularity. Results for this test (% weight loss): Amsoil: 4.86 Vavoline SynPower: 7.03 Castrol Syntec: 7.77 Quaker State Synthetic: 7.80 Pennzoil Synthetic: 8.15 Mobil1: 8.92 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 8.93 Quaker State Peak Performance: 10.63 Mobil Drive Clean: 10.83 Pennzoil Purebase: 10.93 Valvoline: 12.18 Test 4: Pour Point This test reveals the lowest temperature at which a lubricant will flow when cooled under test conditions. The lower, the better the product will perform in getting from the oil pan to the upper oil galleys, and in providing oil pressure quickly. Synoils generally are the best, because they are free of wax crystals, but today's mineral oils are better refined to remove wax impurities, and use advanced pour point depressant additives to help offset the synoils' intrinsically better properties. Results for this test (all units in degrees Centigrade): Amsoil: -48 Mobil1: -46 Vavoline SynPower: -46 Castrol Syntec: -43 Pennzoil Synthetic: -40 Quaker State Synthetic: -40 Pennzoil Purebase: -37 Valvoline: -37 Mobil Drive Clean: -37 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: -37 Quaker State Peak Performance: -34 Test 5: Total Base Number (TBN) TBN displays the lubricant's reserve alkalinity, and is, of course, the opposite of TAN (total acid number). A high TBN will help resist the formation of acids from sulfur and other sources. It is also a good indicator of reserve resistance to oxidation. The higher the number, the superior ability to suspend contaminants and the greater the ability to provide long-drain intervals Results for this test (all units in mg KOH/g): Amsoil: 12.34 Vavoline SynPower: 11.38 Castrol Syntec: 10.39 Pennzoil Synthetic: 9.73 Mobil1: 8.57 Valvoline: 7.88 Quaker State Synthetic: 7.82 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 7.74 Mobil Drive Clean: 7.71 Quaker State Peak Performance: 7.55 Pennzoil Purebase: 7.40 RR's comments: I was very impressed with all the oils, as the mineral oils have significantly improved, consistent with previous comments about how mineral oils are closing in, and that the GF-3 spec has resulted in very good performing products. Mobil1's showing is the best i have seen for that product, which usually was in the 5-6 range previously. It certainly also supports my previous comments that the 3K oil change "necessity" is out of place with current technology. Like an !Removed! for a dead man, while it may not help to do a 3K change, it wouldn't hurt I guess. Test 6: Cold Crank Sumulator This one determines the apparent viscosity of the oils at low temperatures and high shear rates, simulating the dreaded cold start. It has direct applicability to engine cranking, the lower the number the better in terms of stress on the battery, starter, etc. A 10w is tested at -25degF and must show a vis <7000 cP to pass. Results for this test (all units cP at -25degC): Pennzoil Synthetic: 3538 Amsoil: 3590 Mobil1: 3967 Quaker State Synthetic: 4142 Vavoline SynPower: 4541 Quaker State Peak Performance: 4620 Castrol Syntec: 4783 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 5804 Pennzoil Purebase: 5936 Mobil Drive Clean: 6448 Valvoline: 6458 RR Comments: If you live and drive your car in very cold climates, the advantage of the synoils is obvious. Keep in mind that the NOACK performance figures here as well, as this tests hows the performance of fresh oil - after a few thousand miles, the oils with higher volatility will likely have thickened, unless there has been high dilution from fuel, such as can occur if excessive startup idling warmups are employed. Test 7: Four Ball Wear This one is a good indicator of the wear protection of a lubricant, although in the real-world it is should be factored in with the TBN of the oil. Three metal balls are clamped together, and a rotating 4th one is pressed against them in sliding contact. A scar is produced, since at some point the film strength (resistance to being squeezed out) of the oil will be exceeded. The scar is then measured, and the smaller the average wear scar, the better. This test is affected by both the base stock of the oil, and its additive package. Results for this test (all units in inches): Amsoil: 0.40 Castrol Syntec: 0.45 Vavoline SynPower: 0.55 Quaker State Synthetic: 0.55 Mobil Drive Clean: 0.55 Pennzoil Synthetic: 0.60 Mobil1: 0.60 Valvoline: 0.60 Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 0.60 Quaker State Peak Performance: 0.60 Pennzoil Purebase: 0.65
mburnickas Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 I have used Amsoil since 1994 and I know that there 5w30 TBN tends to drop quick then go back up. Also, all the info above is nice but I will take "real world" data over "stats". There are so good oils out there but I still like ZDDP. Lastly, I know that Castrol GTX additive package, is well, sucky. There Calcium is a joke VERY low (below 1700), there Zinc is around 800 and there PH is around 700ppm. Give me a break! My Amsoil is around 3000 Calcium, Zinc is around 1300 and Ph is around 1100, all PPM. It depends on a lot of "stuff" for a good oil. It has to be good in all areas. Just get a good basestock and additive package and you will be all set! Last Mobil 1 oil test I saw had there PH around 737 and Zn around 819 & Cal around 2600ppm. It is a high average oil at best. There oil is not at Amsoils level yet.
ArmyofOne Posted October 16, 2004 Posted October 16, 2004 Last Mobil 1 oil test I saw had there PH around 737 and Zn around 819 & Cal around 2600ppm. It is a high average oil at best. There oil is not at Amsoils level yet. ← say what you want about it, my last car went almost 400K and would have gone further. never having a mechaincal issue in its life. i trust mobil 1 in all of my cars. JMO.
mburnickas Posted October 16, 2004 Posted October 16, 2004 Last Mobil 1 oil test I saw had there PH around 737 and Zn around 819 & Cal around 2600ppm. It is a high average oil at best. There oil is not at Amsoils level yet. ← say what you want about it, my last car went almost 400K and would have gone further. never having a mechaincal issue in its life. i trust mobil 1 in all of my cars. JMO. ← "say what you want about it,??? I do not get it.... Never said it was a bad oil. Just for what you pay, there are better oil at the same price. People rave about it when so far there ZDDP and moly are lacking. If you like paying for a syntheitc and drains every few K miles, so be it. You could do the same thing on dino for half the price. Every since Mobil 1 stopped there extended drain interval, something has been up. It seems like they are using more ester and less PAO.
monarch Posted October 16, 2004 Posted October 16, 2004 I have 1998 ES300 with 86000 miles. Just wondering what is the best engine oil available for winters and summers. I live in NC, it snows here rarely may be few times in an year. I don't drive hard, need some expert opinion for high mileage engine like mine and city driving. ← Engine rebuilders and monster mileage Toyota / Lexus owners http://www.saber.net/~monarch/449.jpg http://www.saber.net/~monarch/leowarfield.JPG do not lose sleep pondering what oil brand, type and weight to use. Nor do they spend time and money on oil analysis. That's because they know that if you change the oil every 3-5K. it won't really matter what brand, type and weight you use, because engine wear will be extremely low if the oil level is always kept correct, the oil and filters are always changed on time, the cooling system is kept sparkling clean using the factory original replacement coolant and the engine is always kept in optimal tune up condition using factory original replacement parts. In other words, getting over 400,000 miles of life from a Toyota / Lexus is easy if you merely use factory original lubes, fluids, filters and tune up parts at replacement time and are careful to always maintain the correct lube and fluid levels.
steviej Posted October 16, 2004 Posted October 16, 2004 metaspace, a quality 5w-30 will be fine for you in NC. You could even go 10w-30 if the winters temps don't get into the teens often. Just change it and the filter on a regular basis. As for the rest of us. If this thread becomes a rehashing of synthetic vs blend or dino oil: I WILL shut it down. This age old arguement is growing tiresome and we all know what each other's opinion are. For new members: use the search function to find out more about synthetic and conventional oils as well as discussions about change intervals. There are plenty of previous threads related to these subjects. We Don't Need to go There Again. steviej
mburnickas Posted October 16, 2004 Posted October 16, 2004 metaspace, a quality 5w-30 will be fine for you in NC. You could even go 10w-30 if the winters temps don't get into the teens often. Just change it and the filter on a regular basis.As for the rest of us. If this thread becomes a rehashing of synthetic vs blend or dino oil: I WILL shut it down. This age old arguement is growing tiresome and we all know what each other's opinion are. For new members: use the search function to find out more about synthetic and conventional oils as well as discussions about change intervals. There are plenty of previous threads related to these subjects. We Don't Need to go There Again. steviej ← tiresome is not the word. I good oil in Grp 3 thru Grp 5 will be fine for his application and temps. If temps are an issue look at the pour temp and minus 20 off of it. There is your pumping temp. I personaly would not use GTX and go with another oil like with a better ZDDP & moly. If you do switch to another oil I would keep an eye on oil consumption. Sometimes it changes. It is not really a quick answer. If you are doing an OCI, I would use the best bang for the dollar oil in those groups. The oil I would use for OCI drains and has almost the same analayis, but lower price, is Mobil Drive Clean High Mileage Syn Blend 10w-30. Just remember that anything API certified means limits on ZDDP, which sucks.
metaspace Posted October 20, 2004 Author Posted October 20, 2004 as mentioned earlier m y 98 es has 86k on it, is it too late to switch to 5w30 synthetic mobil1?
ArmyofOne Posted October 20, 2004 Posted October 20, 2004 as mentioned earlier m y 98 es has 86k on it, is it too late to switch to 5w30 synthetic mobil1? ← as long as you arent leaking, you should be alright. it is ideal to switch over no later than 5 oil changes into the motors life, but my friend did it in his countour with over 150,000 miles and didnt have an issue, not the car has 187,000 miles. but be sure your car is not already leaking...the leaks will get worse.
mburnickas Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 I have switched as early as 0.80 miles and as late as 82K miles and no problems. If it is leaking now, yes synthetic will clean the junk from dino out and leak more. Did synthetic casue the leak, nope. It is doing its' job, cleaning. If you are leaking now, you have bigger things to worry about other then oil. I nice 5w-30 or 10w-30 with a nice POA and esters and you will be fine.
ArmyofOne Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 Did synthetic casue the leak, nope. It is doing its' job, cleaning. If you are leaking now, you have bigger things to worry about other then oil.I nice 5w-30 or 10w-30 with a nice POA and esters and you will be fine. ← exactly. its a good thing you clarified that. my dad and i have been rebuilding cars as a hobby for over 30 years combined and i have NEVER seen synthetic cause a leak. i have only seen it make presently small leaks get bigger.
jragosta Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 I have 1998 ES300 with 86000 miles. Just wondering what is the best engine oil available for winters and summers. I live in NC, it snows here rarely may be few times in an year. I don't drive hard, need some expert opinion for high mileage engine like mine and city driving. Had some bad experience in the past with mitsubishi so little paranoid this time. So far I have used Castrol GTX 10W30 after 63K miles. As always all the replies are highly appreciated. ← Although you're getting a lot of 'this oil is better than that oil' stuff, the #1 overriding issue is to replace your oil regularly and use a good filter. If you do that and don't abuse your car, the engine should last far longer than you'll want to drive the car. My advice is to buy a good quality name brand oil and change it regularly per the manufacturer's recommendation or a bit more frequently. If you do that, 'which oil' is only going to provide a marginal advantage. HOWEVER, if you're in a very cold or very hot climate, the advantages of synthetic might be a bit more important. If you go with synthetic, you'll need to stick with it. That may not be an issue for you, but could be a problem for the next owner - if you feel any concerns about that.
mburnickas Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 I have 1998 ES300 with 86000 miles. Just wondering what is the best engine oil available for winters and summers. I live in NC, it snows here rarely may be few times in an year. I don't drive hard, need some expert opinion for high mileage engine like mine and city driving. Had some bad experience in the past with mitsubishi so little paranoid this time. So far I have used Castrol GTX 10W30 after 63K miles. As always all the replies are highly appreciated. ← Although you're getting a lot of 'this oil is better than that oil' stuff, the #1 overriding issue is to replace your oil regularly and use a good filter. If you do that and don't abuse your car, the engine should last far longer than you'll want to drive the car. My advice is to buy a good quality name brand oil and change it regularly per the manufacturer's recommendation or a bit more frequently. If you do that, 'which oil' is only going to provide a marginal advantage. HOWEVER, if you're in a very cold or very hot climate, the advantages of synthetic might be a bit more important. If you go with synthetic, you'll need to stick with it. That may not be an issue for you, but could be a problem for the next owner - if you feel any concerns about that. ← Change it per the car manufactures recommendations if you think there might be a problem or if that is "your bag". Again theses are recommendations and at the very least, very conservative since all designs have “fluff” in them (Ie, factor of safety, Service life, rounding up or down, K factors etc). Draining soon is doing nothing but wasting; unless, there was an internal problem, a junk filter, or poor oil. I would compare PAO and esters and go from there. Get what you feel is a good oil. You can switch from dino and synthetic without any problems. Anything you do could be a problem for the next owner. So I am not going to switch back and forth since it might cause problems down the road? So I am not going to install the best tires & brakes, tinted windows etc, custom this and that since it might be a problem? Do what you want to the car since it is yours and don’t worry about the 3 owners after. Enjoy it today, for you, and not for the guy down the road.
jragosta Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 Change it per the car manufactures recommendations if you think there might be a problem or if that is "your bag". Again theses are recommendations and at the very least, very conservative since all designs have “fluff” in them (Ie, factor of safety, Service life, rounding up or down, K factors etc). Draining soon is doing nothing but wasting; unless, there was an internal problem, a junk filter, or poor oil. I would compare PAO and esters and go from there. Get what you feel is a good oil. You can switch from dino and synthetic without any problems. Anything you do could be a problem for the next owner. So I am not going to switch back and forth since it might cause problems down the road? So I am not going to install the best tires & brakes, tinted windows etc, custom this and that since it might be a problem? Do what you want to the car since it is yours and don’t worry about the 3 owners after. Enjoy it today, for you, and not for the guy down the road. ← Actually, I think that the manufacturer's recommendations should be the MINIMUM change interval. They don't want your car to last 300,000 miles, but you presumably do. Plus, most people look at the standard mileage interval and ignore the 'severe conditions' interval - even though the majority of people are doing a lot of stop and go driving - which is a severe condition. As for future owners, you are, of course, free to do what you want. But I happen to think about others a little bit. Putting on better tires or brakes or whatever won't cause a problem if they switch back. But if I put in synthetic oil and they don't know that and use regular oil, it can cause engine problems. I have two teenage dautghers driving used cars. I wouldn't want them to have their car break down because of something a prevoius owner did - and I therefore wouldn't do something that carries the risk of causing a future owner's teenage daughters to have a breakdown - or even excessive repairs. This is particularly true since synthetic oil isn't going to extend the life of the car all that much compared to good quality oil and adequate maintenance.
mburnickas Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 The manufacturer's recommendations are just that, recommendations #1 and #2 they again “fluff” the numbers since they want people to follow their recommendations during the warranty. If they follow their recommendations, they will be ok and not cost them $$$$. This fluff is integral to all designs. Next, you could be correct but most people do not do there oil, let alone know where to install it. They take it to a shop and the shop/dealer “pushes” the 3K drain for nothing but $$$$. Stop and go is not severe to cause them to use the severe. If it was, 100% of the cars, truck etc would use it since they all stop and go.There is more to severe then just stop and go. This interval is for poor oil that there TBN does not hold up (which is integral to the oils esters). Again I am playing devils advocate but putting on anything could be a problem, you never now. So far, I know Amsoil and M1 you can go back and forth with zero problems. Switching oil would note cause a breakdown all at one time, if at all. The owner would see effects long before a breakdown if they use common sense. it is called leaking and this would not cause a breakdown on the side of the road. Example 1: I put a belt on correctly and 80K miles down the road (on owner#3) breakes. Is it my fault, no. It is my problem, no. Example 2 : I could put a liquid gasket sealer on my water pump to "seal" which cause major problems down the road. Is it my fault, no. It is my problem, no. Example 3: I could put 36 PSI in a 35PSI and cause a blow out and the car over turns for the next buyer. Is it my fault, no. It is my problem, no. Again this debate is never-ending and pointless. I do not want to push this into another stupid oil debate but I have my oil tests and it state the oil is fine for over longer then normal drains, using a quality group 5 oil and I can see the numbers. Any to your “think that the manufacturer's recommendations should be the MINIMUM change interval”? Any numbers at the "MINIMUM change interval". I would be nice to compare and contrast. As I have stated on page 1: use a good oil with good PAO and esters and you are fine. Depends on the oil be used, use the manufacturer's recommendations for group 3 oils and you can go longer on grp 4 and 5. If you are doing short drains you could use oil with low to ZDDP and low PAO etc. Again, if you use these oils you WILL need to drain them soon since the TBN will be junk after 7,500.
ArmyofOne Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 If you go with synthetic, you'll need to stick with it. MYTH. pure myth. i have switched cars from synth to dino ever other oil change. my dad does this in his truck. every 3 oil changes, he uses a synth. for 3000 miles, then he goes back to dino for 3 more oil changes. do you have any proof tat it causes engine problems to switch? cause i have never heard of it. what kind of engine problems could it possibly cause?? Myths About Synthetics. Myth: I need to flush my engine before using mobil 1.Reality: No special preparation is necessary when switching from conventional motor oil to Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars. Reality: Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ was tested in dozens of industry standard and OEM tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. ExxonMobil engineers are wary of conventional oils that tout their use of additional seal-swelling agents. With extended use, these agents can over-soften engine seals, resulting in leaks. More to the point, an oil additive will not rejuvenate worn or damaged seals. The damaged seal may have been caused by a worn rotating metal component in the engine. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. ExxonMobil also always recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use. Question: Can different synthetic motor oils be mixed together? Answer: Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is fully compatible with conventional motor oils, semi-synthetic motor oils and other synthetic motor oils, should it be necessary to mix them.
jragosta Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 If you go with synthetic, you'll need to stick with it. MYTH. pure myth. i have switched cars from synth to dino ever other oil change. my dad does this in his truck. every 3 oil changes, he uses a synth. for 3000 miles, then he goes back to dino for 3 more oil changes. do you have any proof tat it causes engine problems to switch? cause i have never heard of it. what kind of engine problems could it possibly cause?? Myths About Synthetics. Myth: I need to flush my engine before using mobil 1.Reality: No special preparation is necessary when switching from conventional motor oil to Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars. Reality: Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ was tested in dozens of industry standard and OEM tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. ExxonMobil engineers are wary of conventional oils that tout their use of additional seal-swelling agents. With extended use, these agents can over-soften engine seals, resulting in leaks. More to the point, an oil additive will not rejuvenate worn or damaged seals. The damaged seal may have been caused by a worn rotating metal component in the engine. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. ExxonMobil also always recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use. Question: Can different synthetic motor oils be mixed together? Answer: Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is fully compatible with conventional motor oils, semi-synthetic motor oils and other synthetic motor oils, should it be necessary to mix them. ← I'll admit that most of what I know about synthetics comes from early days. The story then was that if you used synthetics you had to stick with synthetics or you'd start having seal problems. If that's no longer true, then my statement would be incorrect.
VGR Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 Actually, I think that the manufacturer's recommendations should be the MINIMUM change interval. If I put in synthetic oil and they don't know that and use regular oil, it can cause engine problems. synthetic oil isn't going to extend the life of the car all that much compared to good quality oil and adequate maintenance. ← I agree with your 3 points, At Lexus.com, and Toyota.com Lexus & Toyota provides a huge 300 question Owner FAQ and they make the same 3 points that you did, namely: 1. Synthetic oil is NOT the factory fill because in Toyota's testing, conventional oil has provided outstanding engine protection and service life. 2. The service intervals published in the Toyota / Lexus's Scheduled Maintenance Guide are the MINIMUM acceptable service intervals required to keep the new car warranty in effect. They aren't necessarily the best intervals to use to the longest engine life. 3. Using synthetic oil is fine, provided owners stick with it and do not switch back and forth between conventional and synthetic oil.
mburnickas Posted October 21, 2004 Posted October 21, 2004 1. Synthetic oil is NOT the factory fill because in Toyota's testing, conventional oil has provided outstanding engine protection and service life. Again I would not say outstanding , but it does its' job for the interval given. As I have stated in the past, if a group 4 or 5 is used (with good PAO and esters), along with a good ZDDP you can go longer. If you have a good ZDDP that enables you TO go longer. All group 3 oil and below have a small to zero ZDDP so you can't go longer. After about 5K miles the TBN will be close to zero thus causing your NOX and OXD to go through the roof. So if you drain a group 4 or 5 soon, you are throwing money away. Either one is fine but I personally have better things to do then mess with used oil, used filters, etc every 1.5 months. My time is worth synthetic 2. The service intervals published in the Toyota / Lexus's Scheduled Maintenance Guide are the MINIMUM acceptable service intervals required to keep the new car warranty in effect. They aren't necessarily the best intervals to use to the longest engine life. True, if you use a group 3 or below dino oil. Again for the last 25+ years with synthetics people have gone longer and have oil tests to prove oil is just fine. Hell I am one of those people. Also as I have stated in the past, most owners are clueless, so from a legality standpoint it only makes sense. All it takes is a few “morons” to screw it up and bam! Not saying they are here, but most people in this “class” of car, don’t know jack about cars, never mind oil, TBN levels, boron etc. Again they NEED to make them “dummy proof” it they have done it the best way to cover there behind. 3. Using synthetic oil is fine, provided owners stick with it and do not switch back and forth betweenconventional and synthetic oil. ← Again, a myth that was true about 10 to 15 years ago. There were seal compatibility issues but most have been corrected. I would like to stick to the original posts question so I have answered it in my last or 2 posts.
ArmyofOne Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 If you go with synthetic, you'll need to stick with it. MYTH. pure myth. i have switched cars from synth to dino ever other oil change. my dad does this in his truck. every 3 oil changes, he uses a synth. for 3000 miles, then he goes back to dino for 3 more oil changes. do you have any proof tat it causes engine problems to switch? cause i have never heard of it. what kind of engine problems could it possibly cause?? Myths About Synthetics. Myth: I need to flush my engine before using mobil 1.Reality: No special preparation is necessary when switching from conventional motor oil to Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. Myth: Mobil 1 will leak out of the seals of older cars. Reality: Mobil 1 does not cause leaks. In fact, new Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ was tested in dozens of industry standard and OEM tests to prove its seal performance. It is fully compatible with the elastomeric materials from which all automotive seals and gaskets are made. ExxonMobil engineers are wary of conventional oils that tout their use of additional seal-swelling agents. With extended use, these agents can over-soften engine seals, resulting in leaks. More to the point, an oil additive will not rejuvenate worn or damaged seals. The damaged seal may have been caused by a worn rotating metal component in the engine. If an older engine is in good condition and does not have oil leaks, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ provides the same advantages as when used in a new engine. ExxonMobil recommends taking measures to repair the leaks, then using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™. ExxonMobil also always recommends following the automobile manufacturer's manual for the proper oil to use. Question: Can different synthetic motor oils be mixed together? Answer: Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ is fully compatible with conventional motor oils, semi-synthetic motor oils and other synthetic motor oils, should it be necessary to mix them. ← I'll admit that most of what I know about synthetics comes from early days. The story then was that if you used synthetics you had to stick with synthetics or you'd start having seal problems. If that's no longer true, then my statement would be incorrect. ← in the past, that was true yes. i apologize for being so direct. i get a bit defensive about this topic, as it seems i point out that Mobil 1 site at least once a weekcause somebody says something like "Synthetic oil causes leaks". if your motor isnt leaking when you put it in, it will not start as a result of the oil.
jragosta Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 1. Synthetic oil is NOT the factory fill because in Toyota's testing, conventional oil has provided outstanding engine protection and service life. Again I would not say outstanding , but it does its' job for the interval given. As I have stated in the past, if a group 4 or 5 is used (with good PAO and esters), along with a good ZDDP you can go longer. If you have a good ZDDP that enables you TO go longer. All group 3 oil and below have a small to zero ZDDP so you can't go longer. After about 5K miles the TBN will be close to zero thus causing your NOX and OXD to go through the roof. So if you drain a group 4 or 5 soon, you are throwing money away. Either one is fine but I personally have better things to do then mess with used oil, used filters, etc every 1.5 months. My time is worth synthetic 2. The service intervals published in the Toyota / Lexus's Scheduled Maintenance Guide are the MINIMUM acceptable service intervals required to keep the new car warranty in effect. They aren't necessarily the best intervals to use to the longest engine life. True, if you use a group 3 or below dino oil. Again for the last 25+ years with synthetics people have gone longer and have oil tests to prove oil is just fine. Hell I am one of those people. Also as I have stated in the past, most owners are clueless, so from a legality standpoint it only makes sense. All it takes is a few “morons” to screw it up and bam! Not saying they are here, but most people in this “class” of car, don’t know jack about cars, never mind oil, TBN levels, boron etc. Again they NEED to make them “dummy proof” it they have done it the best way to cover there behind. 3. Using synthetic oil is fine, provided owners stick with it and do not switch back and forth betweenconventional and synthetic oil. ← Again, a myth that was true about 10 to 15 years ago. There were seal compatibility issues but most have been corrected. I would like to stick to the original posts question so I have answered it in my last or 2 posts. ← So, in practice, one can choose to believe the company who built the car and did extensive testing on the car and has to honor the warranty on the car..... or some anonymous no-name on this board. Sorry, I'll stick with the manufacturer's recommendations.
VGR Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 The Mobil 1 website provides only generic car care advice, not Toyota / Lexus specific advice. Below is a good example of how the Mobil 1 website can lead Toyota / Lexus owners down a path of self destruction: For years and years Mobil 1 has claimed its 75W-90 GL-5 gear oil "eases gear shifting in manual transmissions" While this may be true on a zero degree winter morning, countless thousads of owners who have tried it during the spring, summer and fall have found it causes stiff, notchy gear shifting and gear clash. Result: prematurely chipped gear teeth and prematurely worn out gear synchronizers. Then also consider how Mobil recklessly recommended 25,000 mile oil changes when Mobil 1 first came out and how Mobil never admitted its early formulations of Mobil 1 cause oil seal leaks in older cars until years later. Bottom line: Following the advice of Mobil is somewhat risky while following the advice of the Toyota / Lexus engineers is not.
ArmyofOne Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 jragosta: my dad has forgotten more about engines than alot of people will ever know. i know quite a bit about them too if i do say so myself :P i would NEVER knowingly put info on this board that would cause damage to another persons vehicle or cause personal injury. im not even sure which comment you are referring to, but i jyst wanted to throw that out there, if we didnt knwo anything about cars, we wouldnt be in this coversation. people who dont knwo anything about cars dont worry about what oil is in it, they trust the speedylube to worry about that. VGR: are you aware that ever car i have ever seen with mobil 1 full synth has gone well over 200,000 miles without any abnormal mechancal faluires? my 1995 ford contour (4cyl 2.0L DOHC/5spdhad 384,990 miles when i wreckjed it. it had mobil 1 synth (started in the "early days" of synth oils) at 15,500 miles. and it stayed there until i wrecked it...with nearly 385,000 miles and not a mechanical issue one, i never replaced a head gasket, i never replaced a valve cover gasket, i never replaced anything more than the regular maintenance items. that is proof enough for me. i took that car to redline at almost every shift, even in town. yeah my gas mileage sucked, but damned if that car didnt perform like the day it was new. BTW, i was at the track with that car every chance i got, her best time was a 15.7, so she was driven WAY harder than most cars in that class (or this one) ever will be. that said, im out of this thread, people are starting to be insulted and i want no part of it.
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