Updates On Rx330 Trans Problems?

[Walterbn]

I am brand new to this forum and one of the many with a new RX330 who is suffering from the package of trasmission issues and problems (and fly by wire throttle problems as well). My local dealer now tells me that the current party line from Lexus is to not expect a fix...and they are still giving me the old "(i)t is performing as designed" speech. My retort is that a !Removed! designed as a !Removed! is still a !Removed!.

Is there any positive news on this issue? Is a fix coming? Is there a new transmission coming in the '05?

Thanks for the help and info.

[RX in NC]

My eventual solution to the transmission problems in the RX series is to learn from my experiences and not purchase another one. My wife already knows that once she wears out her current RX300, we won't be replacing it with another Lexus product.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but I truly believe it's the best solution given all of the known problems with this series. There are other well-respected small SUVs out there that have a solid history of bulletproof transmissions. We've had two Grand Cherokees (a 1996 and a 1998) that were roomier, faster, easier and much less expensive to work on, and had far better 4x4 capabilities than my wife's RX300 does. Their engines and transmissions never gave us even a hint of a problem, and we kept both of them beyond 130,000 miles each. We'll probably go back to the Grand Cherokee upscale version when it's time to dump the RX.

[Booyah]

Thats harsh words for such a fine product in my opinion!!

I just dont see the problems you are experiencing? My 04 330 tranny seems just fine and dont know what you guys are feeling??? I sure hope it stays that way.

As far as Lexus putting this so called problem (Im sure some of you do have a problem) to the back burner, I just cant believe that since they have a top notch reputation to hold.

Can someone explain exactly what these 04 trannies are doing wrong? Yes I feel a Little lag from takeoff, but I believe thats from the throttle by wire design.

Do the 03 and 04 trannies have the SAME problem? These cant be the same trannies because the 04's have the 5-speed auto......

[Walterbn]

The problems that I have experienced with the newer 5 speed transmission are identical to those that have been experienced by a large number of other purchasers of this vehicle and the other models in which the same new motor/transmission package is found. The shifting is often soggy, inconsistent, hesitant, and vague. If one is steady on the throttle while accelerating and then eases throttle pressure, the transmission becomes very confused. Occasionally there is a judder between shifts. On cruise control the shifting is very harsh, particularly on hills. That is by no means a complete recitation of the issues with the transmission. These problems are compounded by the fly-by-wire software issues in the new application of this technology to this new power train. There is a dead spot or pause off of idle when one initially hits the throttle and the rate of acceleration surges up and down unevenly. These engine issues are also common to a number of other RX330 owners. The combination of these two problem areas creates a negative synergy that is significant.

What is so surprising is that prior Lexus/Toyota V6 - automatic transmission combinations have been the “Gold Standard” of the industry for a significant period of time against which all other manufacturers have been compared.

Lest one comment that mine is an isolated experience, you need only turn to the large number of other customer complaints nationwide on these same issues. When I entered an extremely limited, very specific search in an average internet search engine, I received ten pages containing 2150 links to websites of road tests, magazines, owner’s groups, bulletin boards, car purchase sites, automotive consumer discussion groups, articles, etc., containing lengthy compilations of negative comments by a large number of owners as to these same problems and the unwillingness of Toyota/Lexus to remedy them.

Several Lexus service people have told me the problems are common to many cars. Lexus' first "fix" was to say us 91 octane gas. When it did not placate the masses, they had a software upgrade. When this had limited positive results, the line became you do not have a problem because the trans is performing as designed and there will be no fix.

This is shabby treatment from a company that can and has done better. If they do not fix this, this will be my first and last Lexus. My wife was close to getting an SC430 (now will get an XK8) and I wanted to follow the RX330 with a new generation GS430. Not now.....

[nstryker]

I wish I could remember where, but it was both in this forum and elsewhere that buyers were suggesting that while Lexus wouldn't acknowledge the problem, cars manufactured after June, 2004 were performing better. I wonder if that's true and, if not, then whether there was a change in the 2005?

[Walterbn]

RE: nstryker post

I would really appreciate learning more about the supposed June '04 build date improvements on the tranny. I have heard rumors that the '05 will have a reesigned tranny. As with Toyota's sludging problem...all will be quiet and hidden from consumers.

[SW03ES]

Supposedly Lexus' built after 2001 have been redesigned to alleviate the sludging issue. We'll have to wait and see if thats true.

I do agree that Lexus has been giving people the runaround here, but in all honesty I can see their point of view as well. Point one, the electronic fly by wire throttle. That lag associated it is intrinsic to the throttle not just Lexus in specifics, but most vehicles that have electronic throttles. That truly is an operating condition of the throttle and you can adapt your driving style around it completely so that the car operates smoothly. This is something we're all going to have to get used to as e-throttles become the industry standard.

[adman@nefco]

check out the following link to another thread on this forum relating to the tranny problems.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...howtopic=11722&

I hope this helps

[Walterbn]

RE: SW03ES post on fly by wire

With all due respect, fly by wire systems do not have an intrinsic delay. They can be instant in response. It is all a function of the software. I have owned other cars with fly by wire and they do not exhibit the problems this Lexus application does. Lexus service personnel also firm that there is a problem with their unit.

[RX in NC]

Walterbn,

If it makes you feel any better, be aware that I wrestled with SW03ES on this forum last autumn as he seems to assume that every reported transmission hesitation problem with the RX series is automatically associated with the e-throttle functionality and he believes that each owner should respond by altering their driving style accordingly. For those of us who've been driving vehicles for longer than SW03ES has been alive and know the difference between a properly-performing transmission and one that's poorly designed and intermittently functional (and therefore potentially very dangerous), that is simply not an acceptable solution. I forced Lexus to install a new (rebuilt) transmission under warranty in my wife's vehicle last November at about 48,500 miles, and it has performed much better (but not perfect) since that time. She now has about 71,300 miles on her vehicle. You can bet that I'll change the Toyota Type T-IV transmission fluid at least every 30,000 miles as long as we own this RX in order to mitigate the transmission design weakness as much as possible. We won't be purchasing any more RX's after this one wears out.

Good luck as you continue to knock heads with Lexus management. Keep us posted on what you learn. I hope that there truly is a permanent fix out there somewhere, but I sincerely doubt it at this point. You just can't fix poor engineering with a patch.

[SW03ES]

I have a brand new RX330 as a loaner right now, just picked it up. Its actually much smoother in the e-throttle department than my ES300 is. I can drive the ES300 smoothly but I can make the e-throttle hesitate when I want. Try as I did I could not get the e-throttle on the RX330 to hesitate, its very smooth. THis was a fairly new car though with only 2500 miles so they could have made a change, but I always request an RX as a loaner and I don't remember them being different.

I'm not saying that you're not experiencing a problem, I'm saying its not a unique problem for Lexus. I've heard people complain of this hesitation on many different marques of vehicles, BMWs, Audis, Nissans. When Lexus says there is nothing they can do there legitimately may be nothing they can do. You're doing the right thing by taking your business elsewhere if you're unhappy with your vehicle. Lexus has one of the highest returning owner percentages in the industry, so obviously more people are satisfied than not.

For those of us who've been driving vehicles for longer than SW03ES has been alive and know the difference between a properly-performing transmission and one that's poorly designed and intermittently functional (and therefore potentially very dangerous), that is simply not an acceptable solution.

One more thing RX in NC, do not disrespect me or any other member of this forum or its administration again. I may be younger than you but I know more about cars, the auto industry and Lexus than you will ever forget. Apparently I know more about being respectful to my fellow forum members than you as well. My age vs your age has nothing to do with the value of my opinion or view on this or any other subject and I thank you to respect that in the future. If I ever see you insinuate otherwise to me or anyone else I will ban you from the LOC, clear?

I am sorry that you are frustrated with this vehicle, I understand your frustration. You do not have any right to treat me or anyone else like that however simply because we disagree. If you feel otherwise then you are not welcome to be a member of this forum.

[Husker4theSpurs]

Someone needs to chill on the power trip!

[SW03ES]

Has nothing to do with a power trip at all, we have one rule here, treat everyone with respect. His comments were unprovoked and totally out of line. This isn't the first time I've brought this to his attention either. My job is to enforce that one rule. Normally thats a very easy job as 99% of our membership is great, but since we only have one rule we take it very seriously. All members agreed to it when they signed up. There's no excuse for it whatsoever.

Anyways scratch the comment about the loaner RX I have not having the throttle lag. We went out to grab a bite to eat and I let my fiance drive since someday down the road we might trade her Prius in on an RX hybrid. As soon as she pulled out onto our street there was that lag. I guess I'm just so used to it now I don't even notice it. Every time she accelerated there was that lag. Its the same way when she drives my car.

Now, her Prius is throttle by wire too but doesn't have the same problem. It may have something to do with the torque of the electric motor as I remember one member on here saying he had an F250 diesel truck with a throttle by wire and no hesitation. Both electric motors and diesel engines have a lot more low end torque.

The way I look at it is this, I try and make the best out of everything thats thrown at me. Yes it sucks that Lexus has designed a system that creates such a problem for some drivers, yes even if it is a problem inherant to the technology then it sucks that Lexus would implement it before adequately making sure all their customers would be happy with it. That leaves you with two choices. One you can get all tied up and yell and scream and complain and try and get Lexus to "do something" without knowing just what they should do, OR you can try an adapt to the way the vehicle preforms and enjoy your $45,000 purchase. To me the Lexus is a great looking car, very well built, rides great and is silent, reliable, easy to maintain, a lot of car for the money. Sure the hesitation is annoying but the car has so many other attributes that I find appealing, why get so out of shape because of this one thing? if it upsets you that much and causes you that much grief and ulcers, just sell it and be rid of the whole deal?

[RX in NC]

SW03ES,

Regardless of your angry expressions above, from my point of view this is not about disrespect. I have no intention of disrespecting you. My point is that you do not own a vehicle that suffers from this problem, you have not had first-hand experience in dealing with it and attempting to find a permanent and acceptable solution, and I think you're dead wrong when you state to everyone who brings up this subject on this forum that the best solution is to learn to adjust their driving habits to their inconsistently-performing RX transmission. Not only is this bad advice in my opinion, it is dangerous. And I base my beliefs on our own significant experiences with my wife's transmission troubles last autumn.

And speaking of disrespect - no, you do not "know more about cars and the auto industry than you will ever forget". That in itself is a very disrespectful thing to say to someone. But if you're going to attempt to insult me, then at least state the insult correctly - for maximum effect, you SHOULD have said "I have forgotten more about cars and the auto industry than you will ever know". But as you'll learn over time, age and experience can be a wonderful thing when it comes to attempting to get tough problems resolved by dealerships who generally prefer to attempt to sweep unpleasant problems under the rug.

You may be considered a member of the management team on this forum, but that in no way means you are always 100% correct in your views. Kindly allow those of us who are now or have previously experienced these RX transmission issues to discuss the pertinent information, diagnostics, and potential solutions to these problems. I have no conflicts with any other member and have freely offered my experiences and recommendations to other folks who've been through the transmission problems and premature oxygen sensor failure, and several members have thanked me for taking the time to do so. I strongly believe in sharing diagnostics and fixes that work for the benefit of the next guy who has to deal with it.

Husker4theSpurs hit the nail squarely on the head. And banning me from this forum would serve no purpose other than to relieve your own anger because someone out there strongly disagrees with you in this particular case and believes that you're offering dangerous advice.

[Walterbn]

What is most disconcerting about this experience with the transmission and the fly by wire software issues is the attitude on the part of Lexus/Toyota. I have spoken with enough Lexus service people (always getting the same answers) to know that it is the corporation that is telling these folks to do anything to deflect the problem. Tell the consumer that "they all do it" and/or "gee, just adjust your driving" to avoid having to deal with it. If we had brake problems, would we tolerate a service representative telling us to just try stopping earlier?

This is exactly what the same corporate culture did with the V6 sludging problem. Some of you remember the same things happening and the attempts to just keep the problem quiet. It was only after the cat got out of the bag that Toyota finally attempted a fix. Please do not tell me how wonderful Toyota was to fix these cars after the warranty had run because the problem existed (with their full knowledge) well before the warranties expired and they simply ignored/deflected it. In short, they did only what they were legally required to do.

This attitude may work with low price point, entry level car buyers but it does not with the folks that Lexus courts as customers. Mercedes tried the same approach with their rampant QC issues of late and has being paying a dear price in terms of lost market share. Look at the recent JD Power numbers on how even lowly Hyundai is gaining on Toyota. In short, this much-vaunted customer care reputation is rapidly becoming more myth than reality. I would gladly give up the free bottled water and yogurt at my local Lexus dealer to get a transmission and throttle system that worked and which solved these driveability issues.

Simple fix for me: I'm going back to BMW for my cars.

[SeaDuck79]

I would stay out of this, but I have a genetic inability to do so, so I'll just say this:

Both of you seem very informed, and care about this issue. I thank you both for your service to the LOC community. If both of you (and the rest of us) address the issues and evidence (or lack thereof) instead of one another, and not take offense where none is intended, we can all agree or disagree like grownups.

OK?

[RX in NC]

I've already stated that no offense (actually "disrespect") was intended. But I can't control the fact that SW03ES chose to respond by attempting to insult me.

This forum has served as a great source of information towards alleviating the struggles we've endured with my wife's RX over the past year. I've learned to value the advice of those who've been there and ignore the advice of those who haven't. And that's the way it should be, with nobody getting their feelings hurt in the process.

[SW03ES]

The fact of the matter is I simply will not allow you to discredit my opinion because of my age, which you still insist on doing. I DO in fact own a vehicle inflicted with this problem EVERY Lexus is inflicted with this problem. Drop into the ES forum and read some posts in there. Drop into the LS forum, Lexus just replaced the transmissions on ALL 2004 LS430s as a warranty item. I apologize for responding the way that I did but regardless of what you say your comment was designed to discredit me to the other poster. "Don't mind him he's a stupid kid". Well, I'm not a stupid kid I'm a 23 year old man that owns a business and is a college graduate. I am just as qualified to state my opinion as you are sir. I deal with car dealerships for a living, thats my job and I am very good at it. I think I may have some sort of unique insight into how to best deal with them, regardless of my age.

I would never ban anyone for disagreeing with me, I myself was banned from another Lexus forum because I disagreed with an entire 3/4 of the members population (you don't want to prefer something other than a Lexus GS on this other particular forum) so trust me, that I would never do. That said I'm not going to allow members of this forum downtrod each other and discredit each other's points of view because of whatever differences there may be between them. This is something that happens a lot on luxury car forums, the older and the "wiser" tend to discredit the younger. Makes no difference here.

That out of the way, I'm perfectly willing to go on discussing the matter at hand, on equal footing.

If you want Lexus to address the hesitation issue in specific the first thing you're going to need to do is isolate a case lodged with the NHTSA where the delay in the e-throttle system is attributed to a collision, so far there aren't any. I know one member on the ES forum is having Lexus swap his ES300 (2003 year) for a new Lexus, either a 2005 ES330 or a GS300. This isn't really going to help him as both of those cars exhibit the same throttle lag but its definately a start, meaning Lexus has left the door at least partially open and is willing to consider buybacks on vehicles where the driver simply cannot deal with the throttle lag. I suggest anyone who wants info on how he's accomplished this check out the ES transmission thread that is at the top of the ES forum.

[RX in NC]

SW03ES,

You'd best cease continuing to insist that there is something between my lines when I've already stated that there was no disrespect or offense intended towards you or anyone else. I don't presume to know your motivation when you compose your posts, and how dare you attempt to put words in my mouth by presuming to know mine. I've never called you a "stupid kid", nor would I regardless of what I personally think about what little I know of you. The fact that I strongly disagree with your opinions or advice on this particular subject would in no way cause me to call or even infer ugly names about you. The best thing you can do in this situation is to quickly get over your paranoia about it. No, my comments have not been intended to discredit you, and I accept and appreciate your apology. Now let it go, for cryin' out loud....

My sole interest in this subject is to assist others who find themselves in the same plight we were in last autumn. You seem to be unable or unwilling to understand that I'm not talking about the e-throttle issue, I'm talking about transmission safety in general. If our problem had been strictly with the e-throttle situation, then our new (rebuilt) transmission installed by Lexus under warranty at 48,500 miles would not have resolved my wife's fear for her safety in this vehicle. She has not modified her driving habits; in fact, the new (rebuilt) transmission has greatly mitigated the unsatisfactory, unpredictable, and unsafe conditions that she routinely experienced last October and November that caused her to fear for her life. Please make a wholehearted attempt to understand that.

I will not engage in any future dialogue with you concerning problems with the RX transmissions. I continue to believe that your advice to "learn to adjust your driving habits" is extremely dangerous, and I would caution you to give serious thought to what you advise others to do when they check in with RX transmission complaints in the future (which will undoubtly continue).

[SW03ES]

I've already let the situation drop and have moved on. Misunderstandings happen, no big deal. No reason that we can't discuss this topic, as long as you continue to respect my view as I respect yours then *I* have no problem.

I do have a quick question for you though, about my advice of trying to adapt to the behavior of the throttle being dangerous, what advice would you give people? There is no fix, the only choices are A: Sell the vehicle or B: Try and live with it. I'm not sure exactly what your advice for these folks is.

Simple fix for me: I'm going back to BMW for my cars.

That may not make you happy in the long run. I've heard a lot of complaints about the new 7 and 5 series cars that they exhibit the same throttle lag. I have a client that has a new 530i, the lag is definately there also and she's commented about it. I haven't heard anything of this sort about Mercedes vehicles, that might be a better route to go down.

[rl9905]

Hey, although I drive a 2000 RX300 and yes.... I do experience this lag which is very annoying, my dad has a BMW and no it doesn't lag. I drove it many times and I prefer the BMW better. I always ask my dad if he would trade my RX300 for his BMW everytime after i drove his BMW, but all he does is give me a smile. Reason is because my RX300 use to be his and he only drove it for a year and didnt like it and so now it ended up in my hands.

[SW03ES]

What year BMW?

[rl9905]

What year BMW?

After the RX300 has been handed down to me, my dad got the ES300 2002 model, which now belongs to my mom after he got the 2004 BMW 760i. It's a pretty good car and very nice too.

[Walterbn]

"QUOTE

Simple fix for me: I'm going back to BMW for my cars."

"That may not make you happy in the long run. I've heard a lot of complaints about the new 7 and 5 series cars that they exhibit the same throttle lag. I have a client that has a new 530i, the lag is definately there also and she's commented about it. I haven't heard anything of this sort about Mercedes vehicles, that might be a better route to go down."

Mercedes has been taking a big, justifiable hit over declining QC and rampant electronic issues for the last few years. Many friends with them over the last two years that are very unhappy. Noooo thanks!

I have owned new 325, M3, X5 and 330 BMWs recently. No lag. Recently drove a 645 and a 530. No lag. Most importantly, some of my BMWs had issues (almost all cars do). The glaring difference with those experiences and this one with Lexus has been that BMW always acknowledged the problem straight up...and then fixed it. This time around I get the "there is no problem", "they all do that". or "change your driving style" .....and it does not get fixed. Whatever happened to "(t)he relentless pursuit of perfection" ?

[RX in NC]

SW03ES,

Since you asked for my advice on what to say to others about their transmission problems, here it is:

1. The best and safest solution is to get rid of the vehicle. But this is not usually within the financial realm of possibility for most folks who are constricted by a lease term or a bank note. That's one reason why I never lease or finance our vehicles - I drive my best Ebeneezer Scrooge deal and then expect even more off the top when I announce that I'm going to pay cash. Car salespeople learn to loathe me, but I actually enjoy the process that most people dread. By paying cash, I'm not tied to the vehicle by an outside financial party, only by my willingness or unwillingness to take the depreciation hit if I decide that this vehicle must be banished from our household earlier than planned. I realize that most folks cannot utilize this tactic, but it has proven itself to be the best way to go for me over the past twenty years.

2. The second-best (and only other acceptible) solution is to dig in and do battle with Lexus to get yourself a new transmission, which may or may not solve your overall transmission problem. In our case, the issue was not with the e-throttle deficiency, it was with the frighteningly unpredictable tendency of the transmission to simply disengage whenever the hell it wanted to. For weeks I was not able to experience the conditions that my wife would come home and describe to me while still shaking from fear. I would take the vehicle out and drive the hell out of it, and while the rough-shifting Toyota transmission tendencies were always there (which is another subject within itself that is not acceptible for a Lexus transmission in my opinion), I could not for the life of me duplicate the "transmission freeze" that my wife kept describing to me. But I had to believe her because for every mile I would put on her RX, she put 100 miles on it. She sometimes drives her vehicle nearly 1,000 miles in a week, whereas I may drive it only to go fill up the tank and put air in the tires. And then one day early last November it finally happened to me - I was cruising down a rural highway at about 55 to 60 mph and the transmission just "quit". It disengaged for several seconds, and the vehicle would not respond to any input on the gas pedal. My first thought was to check my rear view mirror looking for a semi, because if one had been bearing down on me there would have been absolutely nothing I could have done. To make a long story a bit shorter, within two weeks we had our new transmission. And this "freeze" has never occured since. Yes, the transmission is still sluggish during cold starts and shifts more like a $12,000 vehicle than a $35,000 one, but my wife no longer feels as if she's going to get killled in this car.

So if you chose not to unload the vehicle, you should at least stay at Lexus' throat for a new transmission. It may or may not resolve your problem, and if it does, it may only be temporary. We have just under 24,000 miles on her new (rebuilt) transmission currently, and I'm certainly conditioned to expect another failure once this one approaches 50,000 miles. Only time will tell. But one thing you can be sure of - if her current transmission fails, I'll expect Lexus to put still another one in on their dime. And at that point, with another new (rebuilt) transmission in place, it will be time for us to unload the RX and to bid goodbye to Lexus.