Lexus Certified Pre-owned

[Unlisted]

i would print out your posts here and show it to the GM. Bad publicity costs alot more.. Next time try Rallye or Smithtown. Alot classier especially Rallye

[nicksan]

I take my Acura MDX for service at Rallye.

Yeah, they are a lot more classier but since they typically cater to the wealthier people due to their location, they sometimes can be snobby and definitely pricey.

But I guess that comes with buying a luxury level vehicle.

However, they do treat people right, their showrooms are very nice and generally has a professional atmosphere, so even though they are pricey, I prefer them.

Rallye Lexus didn't have any 2001 with my color. Trust me, I checked!

Once I get my car back, that'll be the end of it. I'll never go back there again to buy a car.

[nicksan]

I could write a book about this.

I went to pick up my car this morning.

Nothing was really fixed!

Holy sh*t!!!

OK, they did replace the Ashtray with a new one and I did get a LCD remote starter.

Window tint is still messed up. Now they are saying it's the windows itself that has a scratch. They will think about what to do.

The color mismatch? They told me they wet-sanded it. Um, it still looks the same! I don't know why they would think that wet sanding the thing would change the color...that's interesting to say the least.

OK, I have a nice, pretty 10 inch long....SCRATCH...on the driver side door now. Paired with a nice little paint chip(dime sized) on the bumper, no doubt from when they parked the car...probably tapped it to something...

The ashtray rattle is gone. Other than that, everything's still there...I was rattling away on the highway!

I took it to the dealer with a full tank of gas. When I got it back it was almost empty. The car was in filthy condition...even had cob-webs...NO JOKE...really. Of course...my car was sitting there for freakin' 2 weeks.

Who knows what else...I got tired of looking.

He told me to drive the car home and call him back Tuesday morning when the service manager will be back.

Just another chapter in the book!!!

[SW03ES]

First mistake was taking the car. No way I would have driven off that lot until this was taken care of to my satisfaction. If the service manager isn't there, fine it can sit there until he shows up. In my opinion now what you deserve is another car, this car was beneath the CPO standards ALREADY and they have made it worse. Now you have to have more extensive paintwork done because of their carelessness that will lower the value of the car. Lexus will do this if dealers destroy cars (happens more often than you'd think).

As for the wetsanding of course thats not going to change the color mismatch, what a bunch of !Removed!.

[jragosta]

Sorry to hear about your disappointment.

I don't know if arbitration applies on CPO cars, but you might check your purchase agreement. You'll probably get better attention if you begin that process. If not, it may take a letter from an attorney.

I don't know what percentage of used car purchases go as bad as yours, but it's one thing that people need to keep in mind when looking at prices of used cars-especially high end used cars which are a large fraction of the price of a new one. If you are saving $3,000, but have a 1/10 chance of getting into this type of mess, it may not be worth it.

[amf1932]

Man, after what you have gone through, I think the next step is legal action against this dealer! I don't think you have to "settle" on a car that will probably be unsatisfactory in the long run.

[nicksan]

I don't know guys.

As used car is subjective. You would expect certain wear and tear and depending on who you ask the level can vary.

That said, you would get the impression with all the hoopla Lexus makes of its CPO cars, you would at least get something that's pretty nice...not perfect...but pretty nice. I don't know what kind of "action" I can take on subjective matters such as this.

The disappointing part is that I have seen several cars at other non-Lexus lots that had better condition but not with my desired color.

And now, with the scratch, it really becomes a he said she said type of thing. I made sure I pointed out these things to the service person. It takes an hour to get to the dealer so it's a little rough to be going back and forth like this.

Moreover, now that I got a first hand look at the "service" at the service dept., I am VERY reluctant to take it. Imagine if they scratch my finish every time I take my car?

Also, yeah, totally stupid with the wet-sanding non-sense.

Obviously they didn't want to spend money so they decided to cop out of it. Make it look like they did something. But the color mismatch is still there.

The new scratch and paint chip on the bumper hurts though. It really does. The scratch is not hair-line type. It's pretty deep, I'd say deep enough that you could't compound it out. In fact there is evidence of a recent touch-up job...

[amf1932]

And now, with the scratch, it really becomes a he said she said type of thing.

Whenever I bring my car in for service at my Lexus dealer they have a guy go all around my car and indicates any marks, scratches or dents on a special illustrated notepad(a line drawing of a car body), that indicates where the defects are. I then have to sign the notepad, agreeing to what he saw. This eliminates any hassles when I get my car back from service.

[nicksan]

amf,

Where do you usually take your car?!?

That sounds like a sure fire way to aoid these kinds of issues.

I called Corporate up.

I told them if the service manager is the type of person that believes that wet sanding it would match up the color, I don't trust my car with that service dept.

The representative said he would discuss with the specialist about bringing the car in to a independent body-shop...I mean that's what they use anyways...just a very poor one.

I know a few places that do great work and have reasonale prices...probably more reasonable than what the dealer charges for it.

[amf1932]

Where do you usually take your car?!?

Bay Ridge Lexus in Brooklyn, NY

P.S. They treat customers the way the Lexus Corporation originally wanted. It's always been a pleasure to bring my car in for service.......except for the prices of repairs. :D

[nicksan]

Man, Bay Ridge huh?

Cool...I have to check them out.

Do you think they will treat me right even though I bought elsewhere.

Trust me, if I would have know beforehand, I would have definitely checked them out...even to buy the car.

Next time....next time...

I just have to wait and see now...hope they go the indie body shop route...I can take it to my guy, who has great prices...and know that it's done right the very first time.

[steviej]

Three options:

A

1. make a list of everything that happened from the day you decided to look at the car (not pruchase the car). Detail everything, dates, time, people, what was said and who said it. You made a choice to go Lexus and the decided to offer you CPO. Refer to all you posts her and on CL to refresh you memory.

2. make a chart of all the things that needed to be done to the car:

column 1: what needed/needs to be done (then and now)

column 2: what, if anything, was done to fix column 1

column 3: whether or not it meets you satisfaction

3. Call Lexus corporate and request that they set up a meeting with the GM of the dealership (not Sharky), the Lexus Northeast regional representative and yourself.

4. Bring the car to BayRidge with a list of the stuff that they did not do to make the car satisfactory. Ask BayRidge to give you a quote for what it would cost you if you had them do it.

5. Show the GM and the regional rep the quote. Request that they reimburse you to have the work done there.

6. If they say no, then ask them to buy back the car for exactly what you paid for it and you both walk your separate ways.

7. If they say no to that, then inform them you will pursue arbitration and even legal action. At this time, you should be armed with any documents that deal with legal rights or the process of arbitration. A blank complaint form from the Better Business Bureau may help too.

B

Walk away from the dealership, put a For Sale sign on the car and hope for the best from some unsuspecting college student that needs a ride at school.

C

Suck it up. Learn from you experiences. Take the car to BayRidge and get things fixed a little at a time. Use the CPO to your advantage, get Lexus to pay for what it while under the CPO terms. Mention to BayRidge that you had a bad experience at Sharky's place and that you are looking for a new service shop.

Any item that is not part of the warranty, pick off one at a time as your budget allows for it. Take advantage of the bodyshop you spoke of that will do the whole thing for $400. Learn to do some work yourself.

Don't starve yourself because of a car, a noise, a scratch, or a rattle.

___________________

Whatever route you chose, even if it is a combination of a couple of them, you may find some closure just in a nicely worded letter to the Better Business Bureau that is cc'd to Lexus Corporate and the Dealership.

It all comes down to:

What you believe is due to you and how bad you want to achieve it and how bad Lexus wants to maintain their "Total Customer Satisfaction" fulfillment.

good luck.

steviej

[amf1932]

I believe that steviej's approach is the way to go. I also believe that Bay Ridge Lexus will deal with you very fairly & nicely. If you PM me I'll give you the right people to speak to down there....if you decide to go there. They have their own body shop on the premises as opposed to many Lexus dealers that farm out their body work.

[nicksan]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your help.

I don't know if I want to go as far as take legal action against them. I don't think I can take the mental anguish.

I'm willing to work with Lexus to resolve this.

If that means taking it to my body shop, that's fine.

But they need to take care of the new scratches as well, and I need for Corporate to arrange something whereby I will be able to take my car elsewhere, like Bay Ridge, and still get treated like I purchased the car from them...like getting a free loaner car, etc...

I want to disassociate from Massapequa after this ordeal is done with.

Actually, this is what I told Corporate. I told them that I don't trust the dealer any more and I don't want to deal with them at all. That's when they brought up the independent body shop thing...

So for me, a reasonable solution would be for me to bring it to the body shop myself, have them fix everything (Color mismatch, new scratches, Window scar), have the car detailed (this should have been done before delivery), arrange something so I can take it to Bay Ridge from now on, and move on.

No lawyers, no arbitration...I think that's reasonable.

$1000, and I go away!

Must be a pain in the rear-end to hear from me...Lexus, Massapequa...even you guys.

Really...thanks guy for keeping me sane.

I really love the ES...just want it right that's all.

Nick

[nicksan]

Guys,

How do I start the arbitration process?

Just curious to know...and is it going to cost much?

That might be the road I need to eventually take if things continue like this.

I am open to the idea of returning the car as well.

I have a feeling taking those steps would be a long and very stressful time. But if that's what it takes...I never thought I would have to go through this buying a Lexus...in fact the reason why I switched to a Lexus was b/c I was looking forward to a fantastic experience, both with the vehicle and service.

Needless to say, I am regretting my decision.

I just spoke to Corporate Lexus and they pretty much told me that it's between me and the dealer...that they can't really do anything but passively mediate the situation. They are trying to help me become a "satisfied customer" but I guess they have their limits as well. But I they lack the assertiveness that I expected at this level. They are trying to stay as neutral as possible and that is most frustrating.

So no independent body shop.

I still have to deal with Massapequa.

Have to wait until next Tuesday for the Service Manager to return. That's what kills me...the wait...and not being able to fully drive the car. I leave it parked all the time...because I don't want to drive the thing before arriving at a conclusion.

...not to mention the 1 hour it takes to get to the dealership.

Nick

[jragosta]

Guys,

How do I start the arbitration process?

Just curious to know...and is it going to cost much?

That might be the road I need to eventually take if things continue like this.

I am open to the idea of returning the car as well.

I have a feeling taking those steps would be a long and very stressful time. But if that's what it takes...I never thought I would have to go through this buying a Lexus...in fact the reason why I switched to a Lexus was b/c I was looking forward to a fantastic experience, both with the vehicle and service.

Needless to say, I am regretting my decision.

I just spoke to Corporate Lexus and they pretty much told me that it's between me and the dealer...that they can't really do anything but passively mediate the situation. They are trying to help me become a "satisfied customer" but I guess they have their limits as well. But I they lack the assertiveness that I expected at this level. They are trying to stay as neutral as possible and that is most frustrating.

So no independent body shop.

I still have to deal with Massapequa.

Have to wait until next Tuesday for the Service Manager to return. That's what kills me...the wait...and not being able to fully drive the car. I leave it parked all the time...because I don't want to drive the thing before arriving at a conclusion.

...not to mention the 1 hour it takes to get to the dealership.

Nick

I don't know if arbitration applies on used cars.

On a new car, the contact information is in the owners' manual. You might try that number anyway to see if they also do CPO used cars.

If that doesn't work, check your purchase documents. There is probably a section on arbitration.

On new cars, the arbitration process costs the purchaser nothing - Lexus has to pick up the entire cost. If you have to go to a third party arbitrator, it might cost you something.

Another option you have is small claims court. Take all your documentation (including photographs) in to small claims court. It will typically cost you just something like $35 to file. There is an upper limit on how much you can sue for, but it's typically several thousand dollars, so you should be OK (unless you've decided you want your money back).

The other alternative is to consult an attorney. If you actually have to sue them, that's likely to get expensive, but sometimes just a letter from a lawyer (shouldn't cost more than $200) will make things happen.

Personally, my choice would be (from best to worst):

Arbitration

Small Claims Court

Letter from lawyer

Lawyer sues them

Good luck.

[nicksan]

So I spent some more time with the car...really never had the chance to since they've had it more than I have.

MORE PROBLEMS! Ha ha ha...getting fun!

-Heated seats. The switches looks like they are both connected driver side. Passenger side doesn't get heat!

-Cabin light is dimming even if I am not doing anything like operate the windows etc...just iding there dimms the lights consantly. I can see it.

-Noticed that the car idles SLIGHTLY rough...not as smooth as my Acuras. It's also kind of loud...it's got a pattern to the sound...liek something rotating. Is this to be expected. My MDX, when warmed up is near silent...I mean I have to check to see if the engine is on. Definitely not the case with the ES. I can hear it.

-Rattling is still there.

Someone must have messed with the electric...maybe when they installed the remote starter?

Maybe when they installed the tint (I guess they would remove all the plastics right?) they did a sh*tty job putting it back together? The driver side makes much more plastic noise than the passenger side when pressing on the door and trim around the door.

Sooooo, here we go again!

[chuckb]

damn man, you are never going to be happy with that car. Just ditch it and move on. Get a GS or something! :D

[nicksan]

OK, I am hoping that I am nearing the end of this nightmare.

It looks like the bumper mismatch won't be corrected afterall. According to Corporate, Lexus of Massepequa told them that the body shop that they take their cars (same place which did the "original" body work on the parts in question...without taking off the bumper and quarter panel mind you...they just did a Maaco job...sprayed it with the parts attached) told them that repainting will result in the same color. This was the decision of the Pre-Owned sales manager...aka A-Hole.

I told him that this is pure B.S....but he said that at this point it really is between me and Lexus of Mass. He understands my frustration and he said he will give me a $300 certificate that I can use at any Lexus dealer. Sounded like a cop out to me...but I took it anyways since that had no influence on anything. I did feel like I was being bought out by Corporate, but whatever.

sigh...

Also, now that I have the d*mn car, I drove it around and noticed a few more problems...YAY!!!

-In the cluster panel...when I put the gear in drive, the square surrounding the "D" doesn't light up. The other ones work fine...

-I finally was able to fill up the tank. I noticed VERY BAD overspray over the black plastics in that area as well as the rubber trimming...Obviously they didn't tape it up properly. (Probably done by the same place that told Lexus repainting the bumper will result in the same color mismatch)

They did however agree to repaint the door that they scratched up. So maybe they can get some overspray on the window and scratch up my hood...

Once I have this taken care of, hopfully within the next 5 years or so and 100 visits, I will switch to Bay ridge.

In fact I want to just get all the "We Owe" stuff out of the way. Everything else like lights not working I can get fixed under warranty.

If they refuse to repaint the bumper, I will bring it to Bay Ridge, use the $300 certificate, add another few hundred and get the bumper and quarter repainted by them.

Then I will forever take it to them for service and forget that Lexus Mass. ever existed.

I did speak to the "Customer Satisfaction Manager" at the dealer. He seems to be concerned, at least on phone, and told me that he would coordinate to get things done, but apparently that doesn't apply to the bumper...

[nicksan]

Just thought I add the dead battery thing to this thread...since this is acting as a diary of all the problems I've had...

Been in Hawaii for the last 2 weeks for my wedding...rented out a mini-van. That was awesome...yeah right.

I am still hoping for a day when I can drive the ES-300 and the only thing I have to worry about is getting door dings from the mall rats.

The day will come...some day...

[SW03ES]

Congrats on the wedding!

[nicksan]

Thanks SK!

The wedding went fine...just glad that it is over with!

Hawaii was pretty great...did some scuba diving for the first time. In fact all the water activities I did except for the swimming pool was for the first time.

I think I have found my new summer hobby...last year I discovered skiing.

Oh how much fun I would have had if I had known this when I was younger!

Anyways, jumped my car this morning and took it to Lexus for my scheduled appt...I was assigned a different service person...he took a look at my "list", a service person's worst nightmare and sighed "Oh god..."...but he was a sport. He typed everything in the system. But I wasn't really able to show him all the issues. It's not that type of operation they have over there.

Anyways, they have all the information. I left a message on the customer relations manager who's been helping me out in all this to manage this b/c I have a suspicion that somewhere along the line there will be a miscommunication.

God, traffic was so bad, it took me more than an hour to get to Lexus.

They did however give me a RX330 for a loaner...which is better than the Pontiac Rentacar I got last time, which I was stuck with for 2 weeks...well actually I have another car, an Acura MDX so it really doesn't matter...

After driving the RX for an hour home, I still like my MDX better...oh year...my baby "X"...but that's another story.

Anyways, I don't expect to hear back from them anytime soon...which is good for you guys since I'm sure you are sick and tired of listening to me complaining!!! Now you understand how my wife feels...

How long do you think they will take? I say 2 weeks.

-Repaint the driver door.

-Replaced Passenger side window

-Fix all the electrical problems

-Bumper color mismatch...figure out the politics in all this.

...to be continued...unfortunately for all of you!

[SW03ES]

Good luck lol

[jasver]

I think the whole used car situation all boils down to management of the various places, some good some bad.

Myself I was most impressed with "Carmax" believe it or not.

We got our 1999 ES300 from them for $1500 less than Blue Book (17K).

Was the Coach edition with every option.

On the sheet detailing what they had done to the car was over $2000 worth of stuff, $520 for Keys, (we got 2 master, 2 Valet, 1wallet).

$512 in V rated Tires, rear bumper was painted (was perfect job I could not tell at all) New battery, all new belts, all fluids replaced, did a valve train inspection to check for sludge (none found), all 4 disc brakes done, plus various small scratches (all classic shopping cart type nothing bad at all) were repaired although they were just the usual "touchup paint" method, was about 7-8 small little scratches done like that which I basically expect with a used car.

All N All for a 5+ year old car was in like new condition.

With Carmax you get 5 full working days to drive the car long and hard as you like, take it anywhere you want to have it checked and if after that 5 days you dont want it, just take it back and does not cost you a penny and no questions asked.

We also have the 3/36000 mile warrantee which covers everything bumper to bumper, complete with road side assistance and free loaner car if any work needs to be done.

Other than 53K on the odometer and a couple repaired minor scratches the car is literally like brand new.

But then again that is THIS Carmax, you may go to one near you and have a completely different experience.

←

Hi Nunyabiz:

In reading this thread, I noticed you bought your car from CARMAX. I own a 2001 ES300 Coach Edition as well. You are correct the buying experiance was so refreshing, that I can't imagine buying a car any other way. I live in the North Shore of Chicago, IL.

Just wanted to give you kudos for going through CARMAX, would you buy your car there again? I'm a customer for life.

[vcv10guy]

Thanks SK!

The wedding went fine...just glad that it is over with!

Hawaii was pretty great...did some scuba diving for the first time. In fact all the water activities I did except for the swimming pool was for the first time.

I think I have found my new summer hobby...last year I discovered skiing.

Oh how much fun I would have had if I had known this when I was younger!

Anyways, jumped my car this morning and took it to Lexus for my scheduled appt...I was assigned a different service person...he took a look at my "list", a service person's worst nightmare and sighed "Oh god..."...but he was a sport. He typed everything in the system. But I wasn't really able to show him all the issues. It's not that type of operation they have over there.

Anyways, they have all the information. I left a message on the customer relations manager who's been helping me out in all this to manage this b/c I have a suspicion that somewhere along the line there will be a miscommunication.

God, traffic was so bad, it took me more than an hour to get to Lexus.

They did however give me a RX330 for a loaner...which is better than the Pontiac Rentacar I got last time, which I was stuck with for 2 weeks...well actually I have another car, an Acura MDX so it really doesn't matter...

After driving the RX for an hour home, I still like my MDX better...oh year...my baby "X"...but that's another story.

Anyways, I don't expect to hear back from them anytime soon...which is good for you guys since I'm sure you are sick and tired of listening to me complaining!!! Now you understand how my wife feels...

How long do you think they will take? I say 2 weeks.

-Repaint the driver door.

-Replaced Passenger side window

-Fix all the electrical problems

-Bumper color mismatch...figure out the politics in all this.

...to be continued...unfortunately for all of you!

←

I'm sorry to hear that's happened to you thus far. I hope things turned out for the better now. Speaking of the "Lexus experience", so far I haven't been really "wowed" by my dealer either (they're nowhere as bad as Massepequa though). They're okay..not horrible....not excellent.... they're just in the middle. Ya it sounds like I'm being picky/critical, but after hearing and reading that Lexus is superior in customer service yadda yadda, I'm a bit disappointed that my dealer didn't meet my expectations. However, their afternoon cashier is really really nice and helpful though, haha (she actually told me there are Lexus forums on the web that provide help, hence why i'm here :D ). Again I hope things turned for the best for you Nick and your ES300 is as good as new. :)