Lexus Certified Pre-owned

[nicksan]

So I'm ready to pick up my CPO 2001 ES300 tomorrow so I called in today. I wanted to check whether I would get 2 master keys and 1 valet key.

They said under the CPO program I am entitled to 1 master key and 1 valet key OR whatever the owner left them. They are not obligated to provide me with the second master key.

That's expensive to make right?

Anyways, I think it's silly. Like everyone says here CPO is just bullsh*t...a way to extract more money from people. Even then, I got a good deal but it really is sad that the mouch "touted" CPO won't even include a second master key standard. I think that's insane. And the unwillingness for the dealer to accomodate me for the second one, should it be missing, p*ssed me off.

Nick

[steviej]

stay calm nick.

Look down the road. What kind of warranty do you get if it was not CPO? There will be parts that need replaceing and labor costs. What you save later under the CPO warranty costs may make up for what you think you are losing here.

please help me out:

CPO warranty= bumper to bumper for 3 years or total vehicle mileage of 100,000 miles

No CPO warranty = 30 or 60 day warranty maybe? please fill in the blank.

The key you really want is the walet key. That's the one that I have had to use in a crisis situation.

steveij

PS, I got 2 master keys with my ES. I have yet to use the second one. (yeah I know, its there in case I lose the first one.)

[nicksan]

steviej,

Yeah, I'm trying to keep a cool head on this one. They make such a big thing out of CPO with their ads and commercials etc.

Yet it's like they "might" be missing keys, manuals, service record docs...I called them up again and their attitude was like "Listen, whatever the previous owner left with the car is what you are getting".

Isn't that what you would get from a typical corner used car lot? Actually I bought my MDX pre-owned also and the dealer (non-Acura one) was nice enough to call the folks and the folks were nice enough to personally deliver the extra keys to me.

Why I can't get a company like Lexus to get me a full set of keys and the manual is beyond me.

I called corporate up and told them for that matter I would have gone to a used car dealer, got the d*mn car for thousands less (probably WITH all the keys and docs and in BETTER condition with the same miles), have it tuned up, buy an extended warranty for $1500.

I was under the naive notion that the CPO had perks more than the warranty. Road-side assistance and all that I get from various other sources...insurance, card companies, warranty companies, etc...plus any capable mechanic would be able to check whatever their mechanics would.

I did the CPO thing because Lexus was put their stamp of approval on the thing...but I wasn't expecting it to be missing keys and what not.

Let me stop here...and say that I have not picked up my car yet so I don't know what is there or what is missing. All my sales person said over the phone was they are obligated to give me 1 master and 1 valet...nothing about wallet or FOB key...just that. I asked him if he could check to see if everything was there...he said "listen, you are getting whatever the owner left the car with". Spoke to the manager and he sounded like he didn't want to talk to me "you spoke to your salesman right? He'll look into it and call you back"...never did get that phone call.

WHATEVER....just want to get my car and enjoy it. Sure be nice to have full set of keys...that's all. They could have been nicer about it but what do you expect from used car salesmen..I guess they aren't a happy bunch.

[mayur1130]

my family has had a total of 3 lexus vehicles. we currently have 2. they were 92,94,96 es300s. they were all in crashes and were then rebuilt. we bought them and no porblem wat so ever. we sold one to get another one from the same guy. we actually got money. we went from a 92 es300 with 140k to 94 es300 with almost 100k. we had gotten $200 back. now that is a deal.

[steviej]

nick, if you haven't signed/paid yet, then you still have control.

Be stern and be direct...but be polite. Ask do not demand.

Before you go to get your car, research CPO on www.lexus.com and see what is entailed, what to expect and what the dealer is obligated to provide.

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

I have the "Lexus" extended warranty which cost a pretty penny (but so do the parts & labour should anything go wrong). I have the warranty till 120,000 miles & I have only about 52,000 on her now.....so far I have not had one single problem with the car since the regular warranty expired but I do feel comfortable knowing I am covered should anything (knock on wood) happen. Even if the air conditioner compressor goes (as an example) the extended warranty pretty much has paid for itself with the cost of parts & labour as the Lexus dealers in the Toronto are billing $110.00 per hour for labour costs (Canadian dollars). :whistles:

[nicksan]

steviej,

I appreciate your rational thinking.

That's a little bit of what I need.

However, I did sign an agreement. I put a downpayment of $500 and the rest is due later today when I pick up the car. I have not paid them beyond the $500 so I don't know how "obligated" I am.

I have no doubt that I will be taking the car.

I don't expect perfection. Minor scractches are fine...I can get a full detail job for $150...not the Lexus detail, but a REAL one. But there were some scuff marks that penetrated the clear coat in several spots, and some bad touch-up paint spots that the previous owener did that bothered me a lot. They told me they would "take care of it" so we will see what that means. The left rear light also had a crack in it. Nothing major...they will replace that as well. The inside is nice...they promised me new carpets.

I guess the next time I will have that put in writing...

I don't know...this is my third car I purchased. I never learn. I get taken by the excitement of the moment and forget about the important things...stupid things...like checking for maintenance records, keys, etc..

I did carfax the vehicle but that only goes so far.

I didn't even take it to a mechanic.

That's stupid...but what's done is done.

I figured it's from Lexus so I can trust them...but the more I think about it, the more I realize that behind that Lexus dealership storefront is probably some snake looking for $$$ and only $$$.

Ah well...

Hey, LexusFreak, you mentioned the extended warranty. Which one is that? For Pre-owed cars they only offered me 5 year 100k warranty...for $2100 ouch. I turned it down. It already comes with 3 years 100k so net effect is 2 years 100k...and I don't think that's worth $2100.

[steviej]

For Pre-owed cars they only offered me 5 year 100k warranty...for $2100 ouch. I turned it down. It already comes with 3 years 100k so net effect is 2 years 100k...and I don't think that's worth $2100.

see nick, you did do something rational in midst of all the excitement.

it ain't bought until it is paid for. The $500 is totally refundable. At least in the US.

Good luck with the new ride.

steviej

[nicksan]

steviej,

You are truly a voice of reason.

I see on my invoice something about a 15% "restocking" fee or whatever.

Plus I'm having them install a remote starter and tint...so I think I am beyond that point.

But I'm confident I will take it today...no doubt.

Can't wait...

[steviej]

then I wish you luck and happy motoring. B)

steviej

[nicksan]

OK, went and picked up my 2001 ES300.

Unfortunately there were still some remaining issues. Some of the scratches weren't taken care of. a couple in partcular, are deep cuts, right to the metal. The manager was like "that'll be taken care of" on Sunday. Today I see that they just put touch up paint over it...not exactly the "taken care of" I was expecting.

They did however fix the top part of the bumper, although I seem to remeber him mentioning painting the entire bumper. Again, just touch up here.

The ding up front was gone, but not the one on the trunk.

Pretty much all touch up paint.

Also the rubber trim around the moonroof was eroding to pieces.

There was a mark on the window tint they installed....looks like a very large wrinkle. There was a windshield chip as well. I mean the tint job was so-so at best.

They are going to take care of the ding, tint, and chip, but they didn't budge on the scratches even though they said "they will take care of it". Also, they must detail with sand paper...looks like sh*t in some spots. Plus all the dirt on the car...and it hasn't rained in a few days. Bunch of liars...I bet you they didn't even do the CPO inspection.

On top of that, the remote starter was the wrong kind. I ordered one with the 2 way LCD display...no such thing. Plus they were supposed to NOT use any of my keys. They were going to give me a new transponder key and cut it. I'm starting to think that they installed a 1 way.

They used my valet key!!!

F*ck man...I would have taken it to a alarm shop if they were going to do that. I asked and asked and they were like "don't worry...we won't use any of your keys".

When I asked about it, the manager literlly walked up to me like he was looking for a fight, and said "Listen, we have done above and beyond what the CPO program offers. You emailed us with your requests and we have met them. You got great, great car. CPO requires 2 keys, you got 2 master keys. That's it." But with a VERY threatening tone and attitude, all the while smoking a cigarette. This guy had shark white eyes and was scary looking.

I told him "Doesn't the CPO require at least 1 master and 1 valet key, plus the person who sold me the remote starter option told me that he would NOT use my valet key, that he would create a new one. For that matter I would have done aftermarket somewhere else. Having 2 master keys is not the same as having 1 of each". Then he was like "Just be happy that you got 2 master keys. That's 2 keys right there. That's all I need to give you". Back and forth it went until he started to look reaaaaaally angry. Then I stopped and told him "fine, don't worry about the key".

The sales person turned away while all this was happening like "Oh brother, here he goes again threatening people". The salesperson was really a nice guy all around. VERY accomodating and very friendly. Even after the little fiasco, he offered to show me the different functionality of the car, how the remote starter worked etc. We shook hands, I thanked him and drove away.

I'm not a d*ck. I don't expect a 2001 to be new. But the fact is this guy was like "I'll take care of this and that", and when I called his bluff today, he started becoming very defensive then offensive.

I only asked for what they promised. He made it sound like I was knit picking...wrinkle in the tint that was done by them, rubber rotting, windshield chip, bumper with deep gash...picky? Screw that...picky is when I see a hairline scratch and complain like I'm buying a new car. That's being stupid...not this.

I'm spending well over $20k on this thing. It made me nervous spending that much money. They take your money and then act like you don't exist.

This was my first Lexus experience. I understand these things differ dealer by dealer. It's a bit disappointing and it ruined my day and possibly my weekend. I didn't even have the energy to take her out for a spin...I can't stop thinking about Mr. Shark Eyes and his nasty attitude.

Crime Scene:

Lexus of Massapequa in Long Island NY.

The Pre-Owened manager, coincidently named D*CK (actually the other way to call that...starts with a R) is true to his name sakes alter-meaning. The sales people are OK...in fact the guy who showed me around today was awesome. Just that 1 dude...someone should bury that guy.

I did manage to get them to put all the neccessary fixes to be done in writing...so I need to schedule a service appt. and have them fix it up.

I am also going to call the business manager to let him know about this...and also maybe I can have the valet key situation solved...actually he's the freak that sold me the remote starter in the first place...maybe he should stick with crunching numbers instead of offering up options he knows nothing about.

I'll probably have this thing professionally detailed...that's another $150 right there...but at least they will do it right.

CPO...MY AS*!!!

I'll post my pics once everything is cool.

Thanks for listening to my venting...and sorry for the stupid story.

Glad it's over...but most importantly, she drives like a dream!!!

[steviej]

Correct me if I am wrong, but you should have gotten a CPO checklist of the car.

As well as a formed signed by you salesrep that he went over everything about the car and the dealership with you.

Now this next part is very important.

1. While fresh in your memory make a list of all the things that they said they would do.

2. Make a list of what they did do and what still needs to be done to meet your customer satisfaction. That is #1 with Lexus, so they imply.

3. Call and ask to speak with the General Manager of the Dealership.

Request a meeting and have your sales rep present. Also request that the Lexus Customer Service Rep for the dealership be present. Leave Sharky out of the meeting for now. Discuss your dissapointment with the dealeship with those people and discuss the treatment you got from Sharky. Bring up the comment you salesrep made and most of all present them with the lists.

Leave emotion at the door, and stick to the facts.

Try to come to a mutually agreed upon compromise. If you cannot reach an agreement, let them know that you will take your business elsewhere for service and you will also dissuade others from going there.

Most people would have walked away disgruntled at this point . The customer that shows that they will not go away easily or give up, may get better results.

If after the meeting (if granted) you do not get any further results, then count you losses and move on.

Spend some time finding another dealaeship that you are comfortable with to handle the CPO warranty issues. Learn to do the simple stuff by yourself. In the long run the savings will make up for some of your inital financial loss.

Save your pennies, the bodywork can be done by dedicated shops later. Rome wasn't built in a day and your Lexus will not be picture perfect by Monday. But this is to become you wad of clay that you can mold and mod. Follow me?

Nail the original dealership on the customer service questionaire that you will get. These seem to be important to Lexus Corporate.

Learn from you experience. Next time get everything in writing and signed.

steviej

[nicksan]

Steviej,

I should be sending you checks for being my shrink!

It's been like 5 hours and I have since cooled off a bit. But I still feel a little bit shell shocked.

I went to go get dinner...just a short 10 minute ride, but it was great. The ES really rides fantasic and it looks pretty awesome at night. I thought the Stereo sounded pretty good too.

Anyways, I'm not the type of person that goes looking around for vengence so I'm not sure I will go to that extent. I should, but I don't think I have the b*lls to!

I understand all this is subjective due to the nature of the transaction, a pre-owned vehicle.

Yes, I did get a copy of the pre owned certificate with all the check marks and the persons name who did the checks. You know what, it's a copy of an original, without the VIN filled in. Then they type the VIN in. I can tell because the ink is different. The VIN is clearly from a typewriter or a dot matrix printer, which the rest of the sheet is just a copy. So I bet you they didn't do Jack...just my gut feeling. It's a black and white copy.

I'm glad that I got something at least...a written "WE OWE YOU" form to fix the tint, window chip, rubber around the moonroof, and the ding on the trunk. I guess that's OK.

I think Sharky should have never promised the other things. But he did and that raised my expectation like "wow, yeah...Lexus is very accomodating"...guess I was wrong and it's not in writing so what can I do? They should hire better service people...they really did a nasty job on the detailing of the paint.

I think I'll spend $500 to get everything detailed and touched up. All shiny...No problem. Money well spent. Too bad I have to but what the heck, it's a Lexus.

The one thing I will not budge on, and this I will speak to the business manager about, is the remote starter and the fact that even though they promised, they used the valet key...and the ensuing attitude I got from Sharky when I pointed that out. They were ready to close the store at 8pm and it was like 7:50pm...so I guess he wanted me outta there. His body language said "Get the F outta here"...

Yeah, the nice sales person told me about the survey. I will be honest...I don't want to trash the sales person. He was a nice guy....just Sharky.

And yes, I will call Corporate Lexus and let them know how poorly this particular individual reflects on the company.

That 1 person can make such a hostile environment is amazing...the dude is a intimidating guy...

[amf1932]

Wow, after reading all the posts in this thread I definitely could feel your frustration. I'm surprised at Lexus of Massapequa giving you such a hard time with your CPO vehicle. I know plenty of people that bought CPO Lexus's from Bay Ridge Lexus of Brooklyn, and all the things such as scratches, dents, and mainly all the equipment that originally came with the car (Keys), were supplied to the new purchaser. All these things were corrected before they put the car into their pre-owned showroom. That was my understanding of how the Lexus Corporation operates with CPO cars.

A phone call to Lexus headquarters is mandatory to complain about this shoddy treatment.

Remember: "The squeaky wheel gets the grease".

[nicksan]

amf,

I called corporate already.

Their official stance on this is that CPO vehicles are allowed some scratches, but cannot have any frame damage, collision, etc. It's strictly up to the dealer to decide the parameters of what constitutes damages that need to be fixed in order to bring it up to CPO standards...which is like leaving a set of matching to a kid...really.

Also, they are only required to provide 1 master and 1 valet key. SO if the other key is missing, or the wallet key is missing, then you are S.O.L.

Maintenance records or proof of proper maintenance is NOT required. So theoretically the vehicle could have been neglected, but if it looks good, it will get the CPO.

You would figure a wallet key and valet key cost them like $50 or so. I don't know why they won't hook me up.

The dealers have the control over which vehicle gets the CPO tag, and in certain situations they can advertise a vehicle as CPO, even though it has not gone through the inspection process, sell it, then do the CPO inspection. You can bet your behind, that if they find something minor they won't do jack...like if the brake pads are like 51% worn, they won't replace it. Tranny flush? Nah...just a regular oild change and fluid check, that's probably it.

This I think is borderline false advertisement and Lexus should be ashamed of themselves for not regulating themselves. Don't they always make it sound great on commercials?

I got $2000 off this thing from an already jacked up price. $26.5k became $24k. Do I regret it? Maybe, maybe not. I did get the warranty which has got to be worth something. Considering the car only has 22k miles on it and it has chrome wheels, I guess I made out fine. I didn't get a huge bargain, just a FAIR price.

They act like they took it up their butts. Yeah right...

They make promises about the body work, then they apply touch up paint, just like the previous owner, they "detail" it...more like sandpaper it, and for good measure drive it in mud and say "Here ya go...she's a beauty!".

Why would you be surprised at the bad treatment?

It is afterall NY....Massapequa? Makes no difference.

Maybe I should have gone to Jersey...they had some good deals out there also.

I found a silver/black one with 17k miles, $22.5k. I didn't want silver so...

GREAT deal...nice condition. Ah well...sh*t happens for a reason I guess.

I'm going to have them do whatever they have to do that's written on the "WE OWE YOU" form. Then I'll take it to a real body shop and have it detailed to a nice shine and move on with life.

I mean this is Lexus right?

DISSAPPOINTING.

Next time, if they so much as look at me funny, I am walking out...middle finger.

I'll have to wait a few years though being that I will keep my ES for a while!!!

It was hard to believe...Sharky...man that guy was the meanest S.O.B. I have encountered in a while...

[NeiLtYmE]

yeah i was under that same impression.

when i bought my car, it was also lexus certified.

the whole car was in almost perfect body condition. Inside ofcourse was immaculate as well, cept for one little subtle tear on the rear seat stich. This was a smaller dealership though im sure, being in lansing, MI that i was.

Jeez... i feel so far from you all. NOT you SK... haha

anyways, I hope all the other things work out for you though, Id be real angry too!

Congrads on finally getting it!!!!

[steviej]

I still say a correctly worded letter to the GM will bring you more positive results.

(cc: a copy to Lexus Corporate).

But as long as you are happy.

(Nick, for a small fee, I will give you assertiveness lessons)

steviej

[Geo]

Nick:

When buying used cars... Lesson # 1. Buyer beware. You will always get screwed somewhat. Sometimes a little and sometimes a lot. I don't care if you buy a Ferrari or a Kia.

I just bought a CPO Lexus and had very little problems... so far. None of the type of problems you mention. A few scratches and a couple of dings. Stuff I expected from a three year old car.

Too bad that your experience has soured you to the whole experience of owning a newish car. I know you feel somewhat bad but believe me you did get the car at a fair price. To me thats what counts.

No more worrying... enjoy your new car !!

George

[nicksan]

Guys,

Yeah, that's what I expect from a used car also.

I just wished Sharky didn't make all those promises, because if not, I would have shopped around for a better condition vehicle.

I took it to the body shop and he said that the left side doors were definitely painted, and the left side of the rear bumper was also painted. He said they did a good job on the doors and said he doesn't see anything resembling a serious accident and that the doors were all original. He said if he had to guess the door was probably in bad shapes with scratches so they decided to repaint. He felt the inside of the door and showed me where the tape line was...you can feel a slight roughness in there, as opposed to smooth finish.

The rear bumper was not done too well according to him. We are just talking about the left side by the rear light. The color doesn't match and they never bothered to take off the bumper so you got paint inside the seams. He said that's a dead giveaway...he said if I chose to do so, it would cost $400, with full detailing of the car included in that price. He said that the pearl white is harder than solid white. He would do the left side of the bumper and the quarter panel also.

Thinking about doing it...

He's a pro...and it shows!

He said other than the crap detailing job the car looks nice. He said with the bumper fix and detail it will look beautiful...

I drove the car for 30 minutes today. I think the tires are worn out. It also vibrates....needs alignment/balancing. It has Bridgestones...I assume original issue. I read good things about Toyo.

I drove the 99 TL right after the ES, and boy it feels different. TL drives much heavier...

[steviej]

go with the paint detailing for the $400.

splurge for a set of toyos and get a proper balance and alignement.

Make sure the tire dealer uses a Hunter RoadForce balancing machine. If a rim were bent, it will help balance that tire rpoperly without having to replace the rim. (assuming the rim, if bent, isn't too far out of whack).

Deal with Bay Ridge for your services.

If anything, the letter Ispoke about, will alert the GM of that dealership to the kinds of customer service his service manager is providing.

again, safe motoring and I hope to see you at the next NE/NY/NJ Lexus meet.

I'll hook you up with some cool window stickers at the meet.

steviej

[nicksan]

Thanks everybody, especially steviej for all the sound advice!

Last might, after my wife went to sleep, I snuck outside and drove the ES300 around...the car is really started to grow on me FAST.

Yeah, I think I'm going to get the body work done.

Now if I can get myself to drive to places with this thing.

When I first got my MDX, I had the same problem...became paranoid.

But after my first 20 door dings (NY baby!!!) it's become my everyday car.

I sure hope the same thing doesn't happen to my ES. I'm going to try to baby the thing, but my house is going through major construction so I can't park it in my garage.

So for now, I'm stuck with Street Parking....yeah HIT ME EVERYONE!!!

[Nunyabiz]

I think the whole used car situation all boils down to management of the various places, some good some bad.

Myself I was most impressed with "Carmax" believe it or not.

We got our 1999 ES300 from them for $1500 less than Blue Book (17K).

Was the Coach edition with every option.

On the sheet detailing what they had done to the car was over $2000 worth of stuff, $520 for Keys, (we got 2 master, 2 Valet, 1wallet).

$512 in V rated Tires, rear bumper was painted (was perfect job I could not tell at all) New battery, all new belts, all fluids replaced, did a valve train inspection to check for sludge (none found), all 4 disc brakes done, plus various small scratches (all classic shopping cart type nothing bad at all) were repaired although they were just the usual "touchup paint" method, was about 7-8 small little scratches done like that which I basically expect with a used car.

All N All for a 5+ year old car was in like new condition.

With Carmax you get 5 full working days to drive the car long and hard as you like, take it anywhere you want to have it checked and if after that 5 days you dont want it, just take it back and does not cost you a penny and no questions asked.

We also have the 3/36000 mile warrantee which covers everything bumper to bumper, complete with road side assistance and free loaner car if any work needs to be done.

Other than 53K on the odometer and a couple repaired minor scratches the car is literally like brand new.

But then again that is THIS Carmax, you may go to one near you and have a completely different experience.

[nicksan]

It seems like it is always like this with anything...especially in NY.

Cars, fastfood, Target..,whatever.

Seems like you got a great deal. I guess it is really dependent on the pre-owned team they have at the dealer.

The particular manager I dealt with was a complete A-hole...I finally spoke out about it to my salesperson who was older than his manager and he said "He's got a lot of pressure from senior management and he's young and sometimes hot-headed".

I never had the feeling that they went "above and beyond the CPO requirement" to make me happy. Unlike you, I didn't get new tires, they didn't repaint anything except the front bumper which had some circular gouges in them. I wasn't introduced to the service manager, and the work they promised they would do, wasn't done so I have to take it back to service again.

I think buying a car at that particular dealer is a dead-end deal because of the person in charge...it would be different if the salesperson was a snake.

So it is a gamble...a crap-shoot.

[nicksan]

The saga continues...by my choice actually.

I just can't over it so I decided to call corporate Lexus after numerous attempts at contacting the business manager went without any response.

I asked them regarding the body work and that I have to now spend $400 to have it repainted, and the fact that I was tricked regarding the valet key, the person said that they would assign me a "specialist" and that person will call me. So officially I have a case open now. They wanted specific names. I didn't want to be a snitch but they insisted so I gave them. Hope nobody gets in trouble because vengeance is not my purpose.

They mentioned that the CPO vehicle is not supposed to have major body work on it...whatever major means...but apparenlty slightly mismatched paint was mohor enough that they opened a case for me as was the valet key situation.

The valet key thing is slightly more complicated. The business manager who sold me the remote starter told me they were not going to use ANY of my keys, that they would cut me a new one plus transponder. Plus they were going to give me a nice and fancy LCD remote unit. What I got was a cheesy looking LED one and they ended up using my valet key, so Sharky says. Let's play "Who's telling the truth"!!! Either way, who got F'ed? ME, ME, ME!!! If the valet key was used, Business Manager should be reponsible enough to hook me up with a valet key. If Sharky was wrong, I DEFINITELY deserve a valet key according to CPO policy.

And about the body work...who knows. They could easily say "Look he signed for the car and drove off the lot with it. Maybe he got into an accident, got some cheap body work done and wasn't happy about it so he blames us". That wouldn't be beneath them at all me thinks.

Anyways, I know this is getting kind of silly...my wife won't even talk to me when I start with this crap! Ah well, what does she know about being stupid!!!

Anyways, hey if Corporate Lexus can hook me up, I'd be super impressed with them. Now that would be the "Lexus difference" I was hearing so much about.

Bunch of snakes at Lexus of Massapequa.

Nick

[krschee]

nick, sorry to hear of your experience. i'm in the process of deciding which car to buy and the es300 is one of them...but also the 99 TL. you wouldn't happen to be selling yours would you? :)