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Paint Quality


DEANSKI
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I have a '03 SC430 RED.

Here's the problem, it's only 30 days old and already I started to get paint chipping on the hood and on one of the side mirrors.

I also have another vehicle with over 110K mikes, and NO stone or paint chipping.

It seems the paint is very brittle or soft and not cured correctly. I also see some purple color staining on the hood area as well.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? Did your dealer address this?

As soon as the paint is fixed, I'm going to request that ArmorGlove be installed on the hood, side mirrors, lower panels, door cups.

Had I known that the paint is easly damaged, I would have had the car shipped to ArmorGlove to apply the product.

Your thoughts,

Deanski

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i am suprised there are any chips so fast any lexus usually lasts for a while before chipping

i am pretty sure that there is no purple pearls in the red paint

so take it to the dealer

i am not sure if you have had a lexus before but in the first year especially they really look after you to replace anything

for almost no reason bu tto make the customer happy

see what they say and let us know

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I've always noticed that Lexus paint chips easily from rocks. Thats why the Xpel coatings and stuff are such a good investment. How bad exactly is the chipping, do you do a lot of highway driving?

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DEANSKI,

I'm sorry to hear of this negative situation. I had a 93 model with very impressive finish from the paint. The 95 model is even better. A few ticks here and there can be expected on this older vehicles. Unfortunatly, your case is different. It is very possible some sort of mishap ocurred with the painting process of your vehicle. I would strongly encourage communication with the dealership where you purchased the vehicle. I was under the impression that Toyota paint process is one of the best in industry. In fact their entire manufacturing system is one that is persued and modeled around the world. That said, no one is perfect. I would bring up some warranty coverage and go from there. You should not have any problem with this approach. If you do, remain calm and take it to the next level with corporate lexus. There is the Lexus website as well at:

Lexus

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

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Lexus Reply:

Well, it seems Lexus is in denial!

After meeting with the dealership service manager, he concluded that yes they are stone chips (duh) and that Lexus is not responsible for "road debris", which include stone chipping.

Now, here's where things are a bit grey...

Lexus has had this model out for how long now? How many years? Wouldn't the engineering division report that the car is more prone to stone chipping due to it's body design? Haven't they experienced this first hand? Obviously, there has to be some type of acknowledgement from Lexus that YES it does tend to get damaged more frequently than say a Mercedes, BMW or whatever...

If this is the case, and more people call into the Lexus Customer Service to complain of the problem, Lexus will have to make some type of corrective action, such as adding ArmorGlove/X-Pel type of protection to the car prior to delivery.

What bothers me is that they HAVE to know about this problem, but offer nothing to correct it and fend it off as normal wear on the car!

I don't know about you, but I did not get a $63K car to look like the lunar surface after just 30 days!

They MUST offer to us, their customers, some type of level of protection if this paint is so brittle or soft!

Now I am starting to see it happining to the chrome strip under the hood! What the hell!

I'm about to return the car back to Lexus and go and get the Mercedes!

I've viewed several cars in the condo complex where I live, all daily drivers and not one had the same problem! They range from BMW, Mercedes, Acura and others. My car is garaged and only used on weekends!

It's up to you fellow owners!!! Call into Lexus Customer Service and inform them you are dissatisfied with the way your paint is being abused by chipping.

Ask to speak to Jeff Shimizu as well and let him know this should be escalated up to Lexus management!

Had I known about this when I picked-up the car, I would have had it sent to ArmorGlove in Greenwich, CT to have this done at once! The sad thing is, this dealer offers it, but it never was brought to my attention when I got the car! All they offer was the Simoniz crap and tire warranty.

Now I have to have the hood corrected AND spend MORE money on ArmorGlove just so I can enjoy this car without it looking like it's got an acne problem!

You can see my point "Hey nice car! Oh too bad for your hood, it looks like it may need to see a dermatologist, maybe some Accutane will clear that up"

Shame on you Lexus for not informing your customers on a known problem! 63K rolling lunar surface!

OK, enough rant.... I need your thoughts and your support on this! PLEASE CALL!

Your thoughts and your results would be appreciated!

Regards,

Deanski

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well you are right on disatisfaction

suprised they didn't offer to put the 3m stuff on now for free

i am guessing you did call lexus head office not dealer

i have a friend with a buisness partner who has a sc also

it is daily driven i'll ask him to see if he has alot of paint chips

what about the funny colour on itwhat did they say about that

it might be the lead to press with to get some action

also really suprised about the chrome peeling or chipping though

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OK, it's time for those with the same chipping problem to contact Lexus Customer Support!

The more owners that call in or email to Lexus Customer Support, the sooner we will ALL have an answer to this problem and maybe a resolution to fix it.

My SC430 will be going to the dealer next week to remove all the swirl marks they left on it when it was delivered AND to touch-up the chipped areas.

I will then be taking the car to AutoGlove to have the hood, up to 26" forward covered, which they also wrap from side-to-side under the hood for full coverage, the front bumper/air-dam, headlights, side mirrors, door cups and lower side valence area as well.

This will prevent it from chipping and in the future if I wanted it off, a heat gun set at 150 degree range will warm it up to be removed if I have to.

I think it's time Lexus acknowledges the problem and find a resonable solution for us!

Don't wait! Call or email Lexus and let them know your dissatisfaction as to the chipping!

I for one do not want to drive a 63K car that looks like the lunar surface! DO YOU?

Once mine is completed, I'll update the thread.

Regards & CALL NOW!

Deanski

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  • 2 weeks later...

***UPDATE ON REPAIRS ***

Well, It went in on Tuesday and I picked it up today, Friday AFTER ArmorGlove did the car.

I put my faith in the dealer only to be let down! :angry:

1) Swirl marks still there even though I requested that they be removed.

2) Chipped areas, one, possibly two were corrected and badly I may add! They missed the ones on the front bumper/air-dam which I circled in black china marker with arrows!

3) ArmorGlove did a fantastic job! Only problem... It's over the still crappy chip repairs!!

The chip repair you can feel through the ArmorGlove. What should have been built-up and wet sanded down, clear-coat touchup and polish, was just filled by what looks like touchup paint from a bottle!

Swirl marks, still there! :(

I'm not a happy camper, more like *BLEEP*ed off one at this point!

The service manager made his statements and comments, but still doesn't resolve the problem!

I will escalate this up again to Lexus, and demand that they send me to someone who can make the needed repairs correctly.

This would mean the film would have to be removed, the chips repaired and the film re-applied in two areas! :rolleyes:

All I can say to those that DO NOT have paint protection film... GET IT NOW!!! ArmorGlove did such a good job and covered the hood (wrapped) so the only seam you see is where it ends. They did the hood, bumper/air-dam, side mirrors, headlights, door cups, rocker panels, side "wings" next to the headlights and wheel arches.

They can do customer work, which they did someones Range Rover doors due to him parking it in NYC garages and wants to avoid door dings.

The dealer DID NOT offer to pay for the ArmorGlove or assist in compensation! I paid for it in full, all $1000.00 worth!

Now I'm going to start MY prep on the finish, a good amount of Zaino Z5 and 3M SMR for the swirls, Z2 to bring the shine up, then maybe top it with S100 or Zymol Japon. At least I know I can remove the swirls!

ArmorGlove did some nice custom work on protecting it, and for that I am grateful!

What a letdown from Lexus!

Your thoughts and comments appreciated,

Deanski

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Deanski,

First off - I'm sorry your experience has been like this. I don't really know what to tell you.

Here is what I know... 80 to 95% of the time, if you want something done correctly in any kind of situation - you have to do it yourself. It is sad but true. I don't know that this has been any different through the entire history of mankind.

After working for two car dealerships in my younger days and seeing people buy cars, I can say this: I will NEVER do business with any car dealership EVER. I buy my cars from private individuals and I buy product model lines that are well established. A brand new car loses 30% of it's value as soon as it is driven off of the lot. Service should be the number 1 product of any dealership. The car is #1 product of the manufacturer. Dealerships just don't care. In my entire life, I have come across 1 new car dealership that seemed to be genuinely concerned with service. The entire nature of the automotive industry from the very raw materials to the end user is a horribly cut throat and obnoxiously aggressive beast.

I don't mean to criticize your decision or actions because there is nothing wrong with the course you have chosen to take. There is a sense of accomplishment and pride that comes with a brand new vehicle. The pity is - conflicts are all too frequent and too many people are involved. I find more satisfaction in finding a car that has held up well for a few thousand miles with it's largest depreciation passed in a condition that is acceptable to me. I completely remove the dealer from the equation.

Continue with your formal course of action and take satisfaction in knowing that others may perhaps learn from your experience. But as always, there are at least two sides to every story.

Best of luck to you.

*The views and statements of this moderator do not necissarily represent the views and statements of this web site* AWJ

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***** UPDATE FROM LEXUS TODAY ******

Well here's the latest from both Lexus CUstomer Service and their discussion from the dealer.

Refreshing the situation:

The car was stone chipped, the dealer, once notified of my dissatisfaction was willing to do the repairs.

Prior to dropping off the car on a Tueday, I highlighted ALL paint chips and paint defects with black china marker, which the dealer service rep also commented on the steps I took.

On Friday, I was informed the car was ready, I then sent Armorglove up to "glove" the car. Upon return to their office, they informed me the job was done and that they noticed that chips are still on the lower bumper.

Lexus customer service has contect me today, and this is their resolution along with the dealer....

The dealer is willing to repair the chipped area again, and wants to keep the car several days for any paint to cure (were talking a chip now). :huh:

I would be responsible to have the glove removed and re-applied at MY COST! ..... WTF??? :angry:

I pointed out to Lexus Customer Service that I WAS informed by the DEALER that the car was READY to which, Armorglove was dispatched to put the film on.

Now, I assumed that ALL repairs were made, and had no reason to leave my office, drive all the way to the dealer to inspect the car. After all, it's Lexus.

Again I stressed the point that if the dealer did the job correctly, we would not be having this conversation, however, the dealer accepted the car back in the condition in which all the repairs WERE NOT made, and was not informed of any issues.

So why should I expect to spend another additional $1100 to have it removed and new film installed because the dealer did not perform the required work? To this, there is no answer from Lexus Customer Service and has to call the dealer again. I insisted that Lexus Corporate has to step in at this point to insure customer satisfaction and to make whatever corrections at the cost to both the dealer and Lexus.

The Lexus Customer Service rep, then started on the fact that Armorglove is aftermarket product, which IS true, but as I pointed out again, Lexus had to know of these issues in the past, made no attempt to inform the customer, forcing the customer to seek alternate products just to protect the car so the customer may enjoy it.

I pointed out a situation at a different Lexus dealership service center I was in at the time with my other Lexus. A customer had a problem with the garage door opener button, it would only work once. They sent out a tech to the customers house and found the problem. The problem was that the door opener was too old to except rolling codes. The resolution: Dealer calls customer, informs of the problem and offers to replace the garage door opener at no cost to the customer stating that the car was under warranty regarding the button in the visor, and that the customer just inform them who he would like to install the new opener or they could handle it themselves. Now THATS customer service!

At this point, I informed him that his attempt to correct this situation has been poor, and I would start to seek alternate means if needed to accelerate the issue.

I've NEVER had issues with a Lexus dealer before, or Lexus in the past. Now they expect me to be responsible for the dealers mistakes and poor judgement by funding all this additional work....

I am expecting another call back, and I did inform him that serious repercussions will insue if this is not corrected. I trusted both the dealer and Lexus for a fair solution, and this is what I get. I am excalating this up further in Lexus for a more resonable responce and hopefully will find that Lexus does stand behind their products and services no matter who the dealer may be.

I hope all of you will learn from my experience with a Lexus dealer and Lexus Customer Service.

Regrettably,

Deanski

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not that i can really asy anything to ad to this

but i understand your frustration and as said before

i am suprised you even had to go this far withouth them getting it done once the first time and right away

defiatly not in regualr lexus style

hope it is resolved quiclky

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****** UPDATE AS OF 06/11/2003******

Ok, here's the latest in the saga of paint chip repairs.

After calling Lexus Customer Service for an update to the issue at hand, this was the responce.

Lexus corporate WILL NOT assist in this issue of paint chip repair and the Armorglove removal/replacement. :angry:

It seems that it will all fall on the dealer and myself! :o

So, the dealer will repair the paint (AGAIN) and I Have to foot the Armorglove removal/replacement. :angry:

This is again, after all the discussion of myself highlighting ALL defective and chipped areas with china marker, the dealer ONLY admits to the ones on the hood! Jesus H Christ, are they THAT blind? :wacko:

After contacting Armorglove, they again stand by their statement that they informed the service department of the lack of repairs to the front bumper and side mirror and the quality of the repairs to the hood. Now the dealer is pointing the finger at Armorglove.

The dealer is commenting that the paint repair was not cured fully. OK, great, so why did they let Armorglove cover the areas? Remember, they had the car from a Tuesday through Friday.

Armorglove's people are VERY reliable and I know they did notify service of the issues, but assumed that the areas in question were accepted by me and the chip repair areas were cured.

I'm at the point now that if I have to go through this again, it won't be with this dealer!

I may ask Armorglove to do the work at another dealer in my area. This dealer has a high rate of customer satisfaction and stands behind all work they or their vendors do for their customers.

It goes to show that dealer choice is VERY important!

Lexus corporate will get further communication from me, and I will pursue other media to shed some light on this issue.

For those also affected by paint chipping, the more that call in to respond to the brittle nature of this paint and the vehicles desgin, the sooner a service bulletin will be sent out to the field for corrections and possible recommedation for new owners to obtain paint protection film.

I do not take lightly that a dealer is at fault, and now is blaming an outside vendor (Armorglove) for the repairs. Funny, Armorglove does not do touch-up paint work. Funny again that the dealer missed several areas that were clearly marked. Maybe the dealer need better lighting or a new perscription for glasses or contacts!

I have yet to speak to Lexus management as to their answer and will continue to press my explanation that I have taken extreme messures to point out the chips with china marker and they were still missed

It looks like customer service is not number one! Maybe I should send a picture of a local merchant in our area (Stew Leonards) that has a stone right at the enterance that says " 1: The customer is always right 2: If the customer is wrong, see rule number one".

I love this car, but I cannot see spending this kind of money and not getting service for simple chips! Yes I AM aware that road debris are not covered under warranty, but if a dealer offers to do the work and issues arise from not only the work, but a customer spending an additional amount just to protect the product hey manufacture, they should step in to resolve this issue in a more fair manner than just "they declined to assist" more like, sorry, your on your own even though you bought our product.

I think maybe next time I will switch to another manufacture that DOES stand behind their customers and their product!

Once again, THANKS LEXUS, YOU REALLY SHOW CUSTOMER SATISFACTION! :chairshot:

Again, GET YOUR SC430 PAINT PROTECTED NOW OR FACE THE SAME PROBLEMS!

Regards,

Deanski

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Just to find out, I searched Alldata for SC 430, 2002 and 2003 models and there are no service bulletins re paint or paint chips.

I have a IS300 bought used. I touched up all the paint chips on the frong edge of the hood and fenders about two weeks ago. I waxed the car today and discovered 4 new small chips on the front fenders. I've also heard this complaint on IS300.net forums. I just ordered a bra, which I plan to use when travelling. I kept a bra on my 94 Firebird and the nose looked good as new when I took it off. Only problem is it's ugly with the bra in place.

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BartKat:

Do yourself a favor and get Armorglove to cover those areas!

I can tell you first hand, as mine was "gloved" AFTER Lexus missed the ones they WERE to do and the one they did such a bad job on.

You cannot see it unless you are very close to the car!

After say 3 or 4 years, you could remove it, and your car is new!

I cannot stress the use of some type of paint protection! The black temp bras are just plain ugly!

You're right that there is no reported issued on stone chips or brittle paint on SC430, but maybe mine may be the first.

It chipped in less than 15 days of ownership, not a daily driver, and only operated at the time on a parkway (no trucks) and do not follow SUV's close.

I have more than one! Several on the hood, several on the front bumper and two on the side mirror. NOT NORMAL BY ANY STANDARD!

I'm just so fed up with the finger pointing. I have proof from several emails from the dealer that the car loosk great, and send Armorglove up to do the car, now the change in attitude, and blaming Armorglove for the bad repairs to the hood. It goes on and on. Lexus CS refused to do anything! They state that it is an aftermart product, correct, but I did however leave it at a dealer for the repairs. The dealers failure to do the job, and then let Armorglove do the work and then deny any accountablity is just poor customer service.

Hell, I'm in customer service you could say. I handle all related IT issued with several large customers, and I have taken every measure to "fix the customer" if we did not perform the needed service and we absorb the cost. It's much better to assist a customer and find some equitable means to resolve issues.

Lexus just came out and said to me that I'm on my own on this one!

No one took any action to see if there may be a paint problem with this vehicle, it's color, the paint product or how it was applied to the vehicle. Who knows, I MAY have some type of paint defects. It only takes one to start, so maybe this one could be a problem, but they will never know.

I'm taking it to another dealer for their input, and to ask if they would let this vehicle leave it's shop in this condition, and what remedy they would pursue for the customer.

I'm also contacting Armorglove to have them remove the film once I get someone to do the job right, then have two new panels re-installed. This is in no way Armorglove's fault! In fact, I prased them for the job well done! They DID notify Lexus service of the chips, but the dealer informed them this is how the vehicle was repaired for the customer.

Again, it goes to show how important dealer relationships are! Some are good and some are just out to make money at the expense of the customer no matter if they were at fault!

Get your car protected by Armorglove or Xpel or whomever you want, but do it now before it's too late!

Good luck to all.

Regards,

Deanski

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  • 3 weeks later...

I agree 100%!!! Although we are all aware of "road debris" not being covered under warranty, it just seems that the paint is too brittle or too thin!

I just viewed another RX300 like my previous one, but in Green and a daily driver to and from NYC. No stone chips can be seen! I have to ask the owner who lives next to us if I may clean the hood and bumper area and take some pictures to have as a reference.

Last call from Lexus CS was " The dealer will repair the paint, but your on your own with the paint film" Dealer claims the paint repair did not cure and is off-gassing. If that was true, the paint off-gassing would have produced a bubble under the film. It is the opposite, it is more of a sunken in effect.

Anyway, the more owners who call in to compain of the paint quality, the sooner there will be action.

Why did we purchase such a high end car to be only let down by the manufacture and it's dealers?

Regards,

Deanski

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