Synthetic Oil Reccommendations

[lexus-lover]

I have a new 2004 ES and am planning on switching to synthetic oil at my first oil change at 5000 miles. What brands do you guys and gals reccommend? Also, how about synthetic tranny fluid, etc.? Thanks . . .

[mburnickas]

This is kind of a loaded question here and it has been asked a thousand times. Also depends on your driving style, drain intervals that you will do, oil used , how oil performs and how the engine performs. You can have a million dollar oil and it will not perform well if the engine is not up to par.

I have used Amsoil since 94 and like it based on my use in my truck and 5.0 mustang. I could not get better results with a different oil so I kept using that.

Now in my ES I have gone over 12K miles and oil tested fine. A little low in TBN but it had plenty of life left in the oil.

Is Amsoil the best no, but in my applications it tests better the all I had used before. If I can find a better oil at the same price I will switch. Again, I must stress it must either be the same as Amsoil at a lower price or the same price with a better performace. I also refuse to go back to the short 3K, 5K or 7K mile drains. I have better things to do in life. If you use a good oil it will last much longer.

Before you asked, I personally would have looked to see what specifications on the fluids you need to pass in order to choose wisely. Also why not change the oil now since I would deal with a slower ring-set rate then more wear. I have never done the break in oil on any engine.

If you are going to do the same oil short drains, I would look into maybe a semi-synthetic oil.

To close as you can see I am pro amsoil. Even if all the LOC people said something different you have to go with what you fell ok with. Weight the pro's and con's. Also once you pick one, I would still do an oil tests down the road and see what it up. You could have a great oil or so you think, and the oil has poor results when you test.

[amf1932]

Also once you pick one, I would still do an oil tests down the road and see what it up.

How do you go about testing your oil? I would think that you would need some pretty sophisticated testing equipment to do it properly.

[monarch]

The Toyota engineers designed your engine to be troublefree for up to 600,000 miles IF you are willing to respect and follow their car care advice. And this is their advice in regard to motor oil and oil filters:

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430c.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430a.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430b.jpg

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/ls430filter.jpg

Toyota's official corporate position on synthetic oil:

http://www.saber.net/~monarch/synno10K.jpg

[steviej]

I have used Mobil 1 5w-30 on my ES with no problem. I have used Mobil 1

10w-30 for 150,000 miles on my previous SSEi and again no problems. I just buy it when it is on sale.

I change the oil and the filter every 5000 milesl.

steviej

[SW03ES]

I use Mobil 1 with no problems changed every 5k miles with a Lexus filter.

as for waiting 12k miles, I definately would not do that. I agree that oil changes are a hassle, but so is shelling out $10,000 for a new engine because it has gelled and your 12k oil changes have voided Lexus' replacement warranty. The 02+ ES is supposedly reworked to avoid gelling, but IMO 12k miles is just way too long to go for an oil change. A synthetic change at a good quick lube place costs $50 and takes 15 minutes, its hardly a drag on your life. Its a cheap and not time consuming and protects your $40,000 purchase. I run two businesses and I don't have trouble finding the time to get my oil changed every 5k miles.

[amf1932]

Would you believe that in the 1950's they recommended changing the oil every 1000 miles. :o So I did. ;)

[mburnickas]

I have seen what Toyota “recommends” and it does not mean anything. They also “recommend” you take you car in to THEM for service, also by their fluids, etc. Lexus wants YOU to buy their items and nothing more. Example, just like when you buy Scotts for your lawn they "recommend" you buy their other products for best performance. It is a money-maker with nothing to back it up. I am a design engineer and I know how there factor in factors of life and factor of safety and most cars and trucks are on the conservative side; unlike space or aircraft engines.

I have had the same type (Toyota's official corporate position on synthetic oil) of info in my manuals since 1997, nothing new here. Again I have gone way beyond the short drains and the oil tests fine. I have the same thing in my manual and....

I did the 12,200 mile drain to prove a point and see the results. The oil tested fine and was stated to keep using the oil and re-check, not drain in 5,000 miles.So where would the small 5K drain get me, nothing.

Also there is no proof that doing short drains will not prevent anything nor will long drains do anything. If anyone has their oil tested, please show them since I had mine done last month and the results are online.

My stance on the oil issue: http://home.comcast.net/~94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_sludge.htm

Pertaining to the famous oil gelling of the Lexus motors. You can tell if your engine has that problem with a simple and easy oil test. Just look at some key areas and you will see. So far after over 12K miles mine was fine. If there was a problem it would have shown up like a red flag.

To close, I have heard the “ you are crazy, I would not to that’s, why would you kill a $30K for a truck doing the long drains, etc”. I go by what my oil tests are and not all the old time belief of short drains. I have had very good luck and had/have the numbers to prove it is fine. Everyone has options and we all know what those are like, but oil test numbers don’t lie. If you have test post them since I would like to compare them since my numbers are fine with that many miles.

Ps. I had gone over 13K, 3X the normal, mile oil drains on my truck (powertstoke diesel) and my friend had a Cummins and was doing half the drains. My oil was in for almost twice as long and the results were with 5% delta. Nevermind the TBN and OXD was better on mine.

[SW03ES]

Normally I would agree with you, but not when you've got a vehicle on an extended warranty from Lexus because of engine failure issues caused by improper drain intervals. We've seen engines torn down for sludge with 7500 mile intervals, why is your car any different? I would do 5k drains just in case I ever got gelling to ensure I didn't have to pay for the engine replacement. If you ver SHOULD get gelling, Lexus isn't going to be interested in your oil test results, they're going to want to see evidence of the car being maintained according to their maintenance schedule. No evidence, no free engine.

[mburnickas]

I ask what is “improper drain intervals”. Is this outlined in our manuals, docs from Lexus, nope. Does it give an example of this, no. I have seen engines and read about this online to, but I do not see their oil tests except one. And the oil tested as junk. I have mine and the oil was fine based on the results.

As I posted on the other topic all the docs from Lexus do not state I must adhere to anything.

When an oil has a sludge problem you can’t tell me it is totally the oils fault. What oil was used, driving habits, engine working up to snuff, oil filter correct and working, etc.

My oil looks just fine. Look at some key areas, and it is low. http://home.comcast.net/%7E94gsxr1100/lexus/oil/oil_test.pdf

[tundra-lover]

Wow! I think we get the point with the whole Amsoil thing, and those who want to persue it- Have a good time with what ever you choose. Many people have had good luck with it. I have never tried it, and am happy with Mobil 1 or what ever I can get the best group buy price on.

I've ran Red Line, Royal Purple, and Mobil 1 with very similar results. Many of my friends are weekend racers with NASCAR at our local track, and are strong advocates to these oils. After tearing down an engine, you can then tell a bigger difference in synthetic performance. I also like the way the car runs smoother and valve train is more quiet on the daily driver, not to mention my increase in mileage.

[mburnickas]

I tried Royal Purple in my diesel and well I would not use that. It sucked in high temps and the OXD's were very high..good for bearings and such.

As I originally stated whatever oil you use, test it because you never know what you get..

[SW03ES]

Lexus does reccomend that the oil be changed on 5,000 or 7,500 mile intervals. According to people that I've talked to when requesting the engine be covered after gelling this is what they look for, evidence that this service was done. If its not then they may or may not on a case by case basis pay for PART of the replacement. The only way to ensure that they will pay for ALL of the replacement is to change the oil every 5000 or 7500 miles. Thats all I'm saying.

[dcfish]

I only use NEO oil and always will and always have ....................

[Nunyabiz]

if you have "Gelled" your synthetic oil, then you have allot more serious problems than whether or not you do an oil change every 5K 7k or 12K miles.

Good quality synthetic oil WILL NOT GELL as a general rule, the oil does not start to break down till over 700 degs, and usually has MORE viscosity left at 7K miles of use than your average petroleum oil does the day after you out it in.

I use Amsoil 5w30W and change around 7K miles.

[SW03ES]

According to our resident lexus tech JPI who tears these things down regularly synthetic oil will not stop the gelling. The problem is in the design of the engine itself. Only 97-01 ES' are effected.

[Lexusfreak]

Mobil 1 5W 30 with either Mobil 1 M1-102 oil filter or K & N oil filter. Change at 5,000 miles and you won't have any problems! B)

[Nunyabiz]

Yes the problem is in the engine design, but synthetic oil does NOT Gell at 260-270 deg temps, regular "Petroleum Based Oil DOES".

Larry Perry, an A.S.E.-Certified Master Technician,repair-shop owner and host of a radio talk show in Orlando, Fla., says he has discovered an apparent design flaw in 3.0-liter V-6s produced between 1999 and 2001. He says he sees a disproportionate number of the engines coming through his shop on 1999 and 2000 Siennas.

"We believe Toyota reduced the size of cooling passages to the cylinder heads in those engines in order to increase combustion temperatures for more of a complete burn to reduce exhaust emissions," Perry said.

Excessive heat makes oil more susceptible to sludge. Perry says he has measured cylinder-head temperatures as high as 260 degrees in those engines - 30 degrees higher than in earlier models.

Perry also points out that this engine series uses a lifter bucket instead of a rocker arm to open and close the valves.

"The lifter sits in the head and gets sludge and debris compacted up underneath it. So when it gets compacted by the camshaft, it's squeezing oil into the combustion chambers," he said.

In this case, he said, the solution is to use only 100 percent synthetic motor oil.

If someone tears down an engine and sees sludge/gelled oil it is more than likely because of regular petroleum based oil that was used prior to the synthetic, maybe the owner even just after 70k miles of reg oil, simply did a normal oil change and thought he was GTG, the synthetic UNgummed the engine up and clogged the oil filter...

http://yotarepair.com/Automotive_News.html

[coolwater]

What if you do your own oil change (say.. every 5K), and if somehow it gelled anyway, then how would you prove to Lexus your proper oil change history? Just wondering. :)

[mburnickas]

Been here........... done that. Some say you need slips (receipts) for "some oi and filter items" you purchesed at a "store", some say slips from the recycle station because you brought some "fluid" to get recycled. Some say you must bring it in to dealer...The list goes on and on...

To close see my website since I have yet to find out what you the cusomter needs from Lexus in the form of Legal Binding Documents

...It is in the Bermuda Triangle or with Santa Clause. :D

[monarch]

What if you do your own oil change (say.. every 5K), and if somehow it gelled anyway, then how would you prove to Lexus your proper oil change history? Just wondering. :)

You don't have to be concerned about "what ifs" like that because oil gelling will not occur if the oil is changed at least every 5000 miles or 6 months. There isn't a single owner report of gelling on this forum or any other the other 10 Toyota forums I monitor when the owner changed the oil every 3000-5000 miles and owned the car since it was new. There have been a couple bogus reports - owners who claimed they changed the oil on time and still got gelling, but these same owners went and hid in the closet when asked to post photos of their oil change receipts.

[monarch]

Larry Perry, an A.S.E.-Certified Master Technician,repair-shop owner and host of a radio talk show

said the solution is to use only 100 percent synthetic motor oil.

Larry Perry is an AMSOIL dealer so it doesn't surprize me he would make a statement like that.

[Ricky]

Lexus says to use 5W-30 on the 2004 ES330. They also say if you have to use 10W-30 do so but switch back to 5W-30 as soon as you can. Local Lexus dealers tell me they only use 10W-30. I live in FLA and they say 5W-30 would flow too readily. Who do I believe???

[Ricky]

I have a new 2004 ES and am planning on switching to synthetic oil at my first oil change at 5000 miles. What brands do you guys and gals reccommend? Also, how about synthetic tranny fluid, etc.? Thanks . . .

Hi there....fellow floridian here. Have you located the oil filter yet? Seems like multiple opionins as to where it is and how to access it. I too have a 2004 ES330. What grade you going to use 5W30 or 10W30? Lexus says 5W but local LExus shop says 10W....??

[amf1932]

My dealer claims they use 10W-30 year round, and I'm located in Brooklyn, New York. On my previously owned '94ES I always used 5W-30, which is what was recommended in the Owners Manual. I never burned any oil between oil changes(5000miles), and never had any problems. ;)