Why Did You Choose The Es?

[Lexusfreak]

I decided on the ES for a number of reasons: Reliability/Dependability, Love the styling, "Lexus Status", comfort, performance, dealer service (under warranty). The car is pretty much bulletproof if taken care of properly! I'll buy another one down the road for sure! :D B)

[vtechbrain]

Oh BTW the LS 430 (hands down the best Luxury sedan in the market at this time) better watch its backside because the New RL is not going to take any prisoners. I agree the present RL is as interesting as a colonoscopy, but the new RL looks like it will make up for any previous deficiencies and maybe become a segment leader like the TL. The Acura brand was neglected when Honda focused on "trucks" now it looks like they are back in the ballgame. Never forget that Acura, not lexus was the first Japanese "luxury" brand. Toyota will have to raise the ante now instead of depending on inferior engine technology. No one doubts that Honda makes the most advanced 4's and sixes in the planet (even GM buy's them now!) Lexus has been using the same old tired 8 for a decade now which has a lower output than Hondas 6's (the new RL has a 300HP normally aspirated V6). VVti has been the limp toyota experiment to copy Honda's VTEC technology which is at least one generation ahead. The next few years will be interesting indeed. I love the David and Goliath competitions.

[tundra-lover]

Pretty strong words Vtech! Are you sure you have your facts straight? Sounds like opinion to me, and a little more homework is in need!

[Nunyabiz]

you want a real Acura that is "sporty" then get this one.

http://www.dupontregistry.com/search/srDet...6-3F6E786AE098}

Otherwise for someone your parents age especially there is no way you can beat the Lexus.

We just bought a 1999 ES300 equipped with every available option had 53K miles on it, popped valve cover just to make sure it wasn't sludged and it looked very clean, the rest of the car inside and out literally looks like brand new, New tires, new brakes on all 4s, all belts brand new, new battery.

we paid 17K complete with 3/36,000 mile warrantee that covers everything but oil changes.

Im extremely impressed with the car myself, very well made, outstanding ride comfort, quiet, easily seems to me like a 40+K car that we just stole for 17K.

If as was said here the 02+ are even better, then I dont how you could posibly go wrong with the Lexus

[vtechbrain]

LS 430 4.3L v8 290HP. New RL 3.5L v6 300HP AWD. TL 3.2l V6 270 HP. Reliability scores Toyota #1 Honda #2. Best entry luxury sedan (by consumer reports) Acura TL The ES is #4. Last Indy race Honda had the first six positions Toyota and ford scrapped the end of the barrel. I think more automotive research is warranted on your end!

[steviej]

Last Indy race Honda had the first six positions Toyota and ford scrapped the end of the barrel. I think more automotive research is warranted on your end!

If I were to race my Lexus at Indy then I will give you this one.

Since I only commute in my Lexus, drive around town in my Lex, go on vacation in my Lex, and drive the highways of this continent in my Lex, then I want to remain as comfortable and smooth as possible in the quietest cabin adorned with the best taste and not have to worry about the tranny crapping out within a year and not have to listen to plastic noises. I'm sticking with my Lex.

Besides, being top dog is not about who has the most horsepower.

steviej

[nicksan]

I would have to agree with steviej on this one.

Just got my 2001 ES, and it rides smooth and QUEIT.

My TL (soon to be sold since I got the ES) rattles with plastic noise.

So does my MDX.

That said, TL is still a slammin' car. It rokcs...but in terms of luxury it's definitely a notch below Lexus.

The newer Acura's are looking nice inside...futuristic.

But aren't they also having tranny recalls?

That scared me off of buying a 2003 TL or TSX...went with the reliable and timeless design ES300.

[NeiLtYmE]

You are all entitled to your opinions that is awesome. Infact, i love reading these posts. I learn alot from them,

Here is my opinion on this matter, Not to down anyone here ofcourse.

Obviously both Companies are geared towards different people who seek different pleasures. A fight between a boxer and chess player isnt ganna last long. They have different interests and pleasures. Those power hungry are much drastically a different group of people than the luxury fanatic. Some are cought in the middle and love both, they buy AUDI'S! You gotta love how they stay outta these arguements...

point is, the arguement is invalid almost.

vtecbrain, your opinions are cool... but you are here nockin on lexus, on a lexus forum, and you dont even drive one.

personally, i dont make it a hobby to pounce acura owners about their vehicles. I understand thier good cars, with thier own problems ofcourse, purchased by thier owners with hard work and hopefully as a well-deserved reward. Each person here is ganna have thier own bias blended in with facts to only bring out the best on each side, its human nature.

[Nunyabiz]

This is my "sporty" car that I have owned for about 14 years now.

http://www.europeanlocators.com/sa-lr.html

Except mine is British racing green with a tan leather interior.

Its a 1977 Porsche 930 with rebuilt engine is now 3.6L with intercooler oversized K27 turbo, 187Mph top end 0-60~3.9sec 450Hp.

Haven't met a car on the road in 14 years that can touch it so far, including 2 Vipers and a supercharged Vette that i left in the dust.

Acura TL I wouldn't have to take it out of 2nd gear.

You can pick up a nice older Porsche like this for 20K.

Fast and realiable

[tundra-lover]

I would suggest to you "vtech", that you talk when you know what your talking about. It sounds like you believe everything people tell you when you don't know any history of it. Do you realize that your Car and Driver/Speed TV knowledge is bias material- Besides the Acura was beaten several time by BMW. It all depends on what your looking for in the car. You seem to be fixated by eval's done by other people. Do you know what other luxery cars were in Japan that didn't make it to the USA besides Honda and Toyota?

Do you even know the difference between vtech and vvti, and why would you explain to all these people that it is a limp experiment that is a generation behind Honda? Have you had any engineering/mechanical experience to explain that to us??

What about this whole inferior engine technology? Where do you get this stuff man? Have you not read threads here about some of these Lexus/Toyota engines with over 300K, and some over 500k? How is that inferior? I used to be in a local race team, with a mini-stock running a stock Toyota 4banger with over 400hp normally aspirated which had over 100k before using it with dual weber's.

You want to talk trucks, lets GO! For you to say that Honda is making a truck is somewhat of a fallacy. They are taking a Pilot, and putting a bed on it! Not any where near what I would call a truck except for the bed part. They didn't invest much if any R&D to develop this, or to take anything away from their car development.

As far as a tired V8, you really have to work on this man! You have no where to go on this! This is the most fuel effiecent V8 on the market, which is labeled as ULTRA LOW EMISION. Honda doesn't have that, or any other manufacturer out there. Where do you get your higher output numbers from? The V8 is also used in the Tundra which can pull 8000 pounds, rated at 315 pound ft of torque (different heads). Your Honda can't do that. Not to mention the new diesel that will go in the new 3/4 ton for 06' which will blow the GM Duramax out of the water- OH ya, it's made by ISUZU not GM. GM bought the Honda Pilot engine to actually sell the Saturn version SUV, instead of loosing sales all together. They also bought Toyota engines for the Geo line. All the manufactures have a hand in just about every other company out there. They have too, to keep sales up and things moving.

Don't state your (most advanced) opinion as fact, unless you have something to back it. :chairshot:

[Senna4ever]

Oh BTW the LS 430 (hands down the best Luxury sedan in the market at this time) better watch its backside because the New RL is not going to take any prisoners.  I agree the present RL is as interesting as a colonoscopy, but the new RL looks like it will make up for any previous deficiencies and maybe become a segment leader like the TL. The Acura brand was neglected when Honda focused on "trucks" now it looks like they are back in the ballgame. Never forget that Acura, not lexus was the first Japanese "luxury" brand. Toyota will have to raise the ante now instead of depending on inferior engine technology. No one doubts that Honda makes the most advanced 4's and sixes in the planet (even GM buy's them now!) Lexus has been using the same old tired 8 for a decade now which has a lower output than Hondas 6's (the new RL has a 300HP normally aspirated V6). VVti has been the limp toyota experiment to copy Honda's VTEC technology which is at least one generation ahead. The next few years will be interesting indeed. I love the David and Goliath competitions.

WTF are you talkin' 'bout? Yes, the LS430 is an awesome car, but hands down? That is subject to opinion. The BMW 7 exists for the driver who wants luxury + sportiness, etc... The Acura RL/Honda Legend is in a different class from the LS. The LS costs close to $100K here in Canada, while the RL is expected to sell for about $50K. Yes, it will be a damn fine car, but it will compete in the mid-size ES330, BMW 5, MB E-class, Jaguar S-Type class. Power isn't everything. Yes, the RL will have a trick AWD system, but how reliable will it be, and how much will repairs be for such a complex system? Admittedly, I am looking forward to the car, as I am an ex-Legend owner, and am still somewhat loyal to the Honda brand.

Acura was the first Japanese luxury nameplate in North America. "Acura" as a brand does not exist anywhere else. Honda does not have a vehicle that competes with the Toyota Century, a V12 luxo-barge sold only in Japan and is positioned above the Celsior/LS430, or Nissan's President, another car not available here, which is positioned above the Cima/Q45. Hell, Honda doesn't have a full-size luxury car, period. The Century and President have been sold in Japan for years before "Acura" came out.

If you go to anywhere outside of North America, and you tell them that you own an Acura, they would not know what you are talking about. The Acura RL is the Honda Legend, the RSX is the Honda Integra, the 1.7 EL is only sold in Canada, and the new TL is only sold in North America. The previous TL was sold as the Honda Inspire in Japan, but the current North American Accord is now sold as the Inspire in Japan. The TSX is the Honda Accord worldwide. The Acura MDX is the Honda MDX.

I agree that Honda may make the most advanced 4 pots, but 6's? As much as I like Honda V6's, I must throw these out: BMW I6 , Nissan's VQ. Have you ever driven a BMW or Nissan 6 cylinder car? I suspect not.

Honda has always had fantastic HP output with their engines, but torque figures were always pretty low.

You have to realize that Vtec & VVTi are different in that VVTi is more seamless than the kick in the !Removed! Vtec gives you. Why do you think Honda introduced the i-Vtec?

[SKperformance]

lmao

looks like vtec got schooled

no body thinks lexus makes performance cars ,so why do you keep trying to prove that point ,it isn't an issue.

Acura is a nice car but you dont' see someone impressed by a 15 year old acrua legend or integra ? try that with a mercedes lexus or bmw they have staying power.

Never mind i have a variable intake runner in my 94 ES well before bmw and their VANOS.

[Senna4ever]

LS 430 4.3L v8 290HP. New RL 3.5L v6 300HP AWD. TL 3.2l V6 270 HP. Reliability scores Toyota #1 Honda #2. Best entry luxury sedan (by consumer reports) Acura TL The ES is #4. Last Indy race Honda had the first six positions Toyota and ford scrapped the end of the barrel. I think more automotive research is warranted on your end!

2005 Honda Legend/Acura RL: 3,748 lbs. 300hp @6200 rpm, 260lb-ft @ 5000 rpm.

2004 Toyota Celsior/Lexus LS430: 3,990 lbs. 290 hp @ 5,600 rpm, 320 lb-ft @ 3,400 rpm.

Look at the power & torque figures. The power & torque from the Toyota V8 is available at a much lower rpm than the Honda...and there is 60 lbs more torque. The LS weighs 240 lbs more than the RL.... I think the LS is the more drivable car here...

vtechbrain: please research your posts before shooting your mouth off. BTW, what does the 'vtech' in your name stand for anyway? 'VTech' is a company that makes cheap cordless phones, according to the electronics store ad insert in my weekend newspaper. Do you mean 'VTEC' perhaps? :whistles:

PS...GM also supplies BMW, Rover & Opel with transmissions.

[Senna4ever]

no body thinks lexus makes performance cars ,so why do you keep trying to prove that point ,it isn't an issue.

Acura is a nice car but you dont' see someone impressed by a 15 year old acrua legend or integra ? try that with a mercedes lexus or bmw they have staying power.

Hey, sk! I think you are right for the most part. I have to disagree with you saying the Legends don't get noticed. I had plenty of admiring looks with my old 1989 Legend coupe. I kept her in good condition, and even though I had to sell her last summer, people (who obviously did not know much about cars) commented how sporty she looked, and when I told him/her (usually a her! )that the car was over 10 years old, they mentioned the (exterior) design had aged extremely well. I think the Legend coupes were/are great cars. I still love them, anyways. She was more fun to drive than my current ES300, which is the reason I kept her so long. Ride quality & interior noise levels were only slightly worse than my ES300. Everytime I see one on the road, I truly miss my trusty Legend coupe. :(

My 1989 Legend coupe had:

1) auto climate control. ES300 has this also.

2) THREE seat position memory Driver seat had 8 way power seats, passenger only had 4. ES300 only has two seat position memory, but both front seats have 8 way power seats.

3) FIVE level seat heaters, ES300 only has 'on' or 'off'.

4) leather in the door panels, ES300 has vinyl inserts.

5) the rear windows rolled down (this is a 2-door coupe, remember)

6) auxillary remote radio controls within fingertip reach of the steering wheel

7) more storage compartments than you can shake a stick at.

8) doors automatically locked 10 seconds after shifting into 'D', and unlocked after turning off ignition.

[SKperformance]

not bad sienna

i almost bought a 96 legend coupe special edition with the 6 speed yamaha tranny which is very rare in Canada ( i think thatwas the year)

An 89 legend coupe is a rare car though unlike the 4 door version which is mostly beat up here in Canada if still driving at all.

So if you had one in great condition ,it would get noticed but not because it was an acura but because it is a pristine condition looking car.

[NeiLtYmE]

awwww... wheee di dah poh baby goo ?

[Senna4ever]

Thanks! It's 'Senna,' the racing driver, not 'sienna,' the minivan, dude! :) The last year for the Legend was 1995, BTW! Yes, the 6 speed was/is a very rare car. As for beat up, that would apply to anywhere in Canada but the west coast. They salt the roads in winter over there in the east, don't they?

[SKperformance]

always glance past the name but never really have time to read it properly.

I am sorry to hear ,as i am a great fan of the late Arton Senna which i still haev the special edition time magazine of him after the crash in september of 97 i think.

[vtechbrain]

Senna you cant get around the fact that the the honda v6 has a higher output than the toyota v8, sorry you have such sour grapes. Yes the lexus has more torque but so does a GMC pickuptruck diesel, as far as I know people dont use their luxury cars to pull tree stumps. As far as reliabilty of the AWD system its a derivative of the MDX system which to date has been bullet proof. The fact that a BMW7 series costs an arm and a leg is inmaterial except for those that only measure a car by how much it costs (the ignorants). The reviews, tests and reliability of the BMW 7 series have been dismal, in my book and anybody that can see farther than price, its a silly buy. Nissan VQ engines although almost as powerful as hondas are eons below in refinement. BMW' in line sixes are all less powerful than Hondas except for the M series engine which are race not passenger vehicle motors. What if honda decided to put one of their racing engines in a passenger cars (800 HP v8's anyone)?

Yes Acura only exists in Canada and US but who cares as far as I know I or you dont live in England or Japan. Acura came into being in america BEFORE lexus. If my Acura wore a Honda badge the ES 300 would sill be licking the ground behind it !!! I personally couldn't care less for which symbol sits on the hood, if I really wanted to I could had bought any hood ornament in the market. I choose a vehicle for its driving dynamics and value. There is simply no denying that Honda is the premier engine maker in the world all other are only second best. I've tried to iluminate some of you around here but there simply isn't anybody as blind (or stupid) as those that don't want to see!!!!

[vtechbrain]

Before I forget Senna drove for HONDA. Hows that for a little history? :P

[tundra-lover]

Vtech, do you not realize that torque is what gets you up and moving- or "out of the hole." You have to have a good amount of torque for launch, output is not only measured by hp. If you want to state output, you need to use some facts.

I can tell you right now, that an old 90's inline six Supra will smoke your honda. I can also garantee my Tundra V8 (15.3 1/4 mile) would smoke your Honda.

Why do you also bring up these Honda race engines? Do you know that Toyota also runs V8 race egines (NASCAR), but non of them are going to put any race engines in a commuter vehicle. The new stock 05' Toyota/Lexus V8 has 278 hp, and more than 320 lbft depending on the heads used this year.

Also Honda has no LONG TERM testing on any AWD system. The Toyota has had real 4WD bulletproof systems with center diff lock since 90', as well as rear diff lock in many different vehicles. Kicks the sheit out of any Honda AWD system! Now the Nissan Skyline has a nice AWD system, you don't mention that though?

Still haven't seen any proof of your "eon's" of technology ahead of anyone else? Where is the proof of the premier engines at? Where is the education we have all been waiting for?? I'm waiting to be iluminated!! I think it's time you go back to where you came from, and tell your Honda buddies we said hello. And watch who you call stupid pal!

I like Honda's, as well as many other makers, but I don't believe one or the other to be the best at all- get over it! Who is ignorant here? Hummmm.....

[vtechbrain]

Ignorance is bliss isn't it? The new 6 spd TL turns 0-60 in 5.8 sec and the quarter at 14.8 and 99mpH. A supra and (FOR GOD SAKES) a tundra could not catch up to me with a rocket pack! Some people are just too funny!!! BTW the new TL is faster than ANY present Lexus or Toyota. Look it up,

Edited August 4, 2004 by steviej

[tundra-lover]

14.8 is not your time- a proffesional driver maybe. 15.3 is my time at Rocky Mountain RaceWay with a stock 6200lb 4.7 Automatic Tundra at 5000ft (est) elevation and 33" rubber- you do the math for power to weight. Not apples to apples here, but you can see if put into a 3500lb car with a 6 speed what it might do.

The so called inferior inline 6 twin turbo (stock)supra is much faster than that (I have no time slips for one, but they were faster than me) - again not apples to apples. Your talk again is cheap, and nothing to back it up but your magazine information. Read or Do?? No times available on the 05' 4.7 yet.

This all has nothing to do with the ES? Anyone else want to continue with this- It's like talking to a five year old.

[jweiss]

Moderators,

i think it's time to pull the plug on some of these posts. I know it's politically correct to be hospitable toward those with alternative views, but this is getting out of hand. Let Hondas go back to their lair, so that you keep up the great job of allowing posts that are enlightening.

[rpwsrw]

LS is #1 Hands Down.

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