190k - Too Late To Go To Synthetic Oil?

[yucaton_tom]

Hello,

I know it's been covered, but would appreciate hearing about anyones experience in changing to synthetic oil at high mileage - in my case 190K on my 93 LS400. I guess my biggest concern would be that leaks can start that will not using regular motor oil.

Thanks,

Tom

[blake918]

Tom, I switched to Mobile1 syn in my '95 LS4 at 225k miles in March. Now, 4k miles later not a single leak.....ever. I plan to refill with syn in 1k when the oil change is due. The car purrrrs! B)

[Lexusfreak]

Where abouts in the country are you from yuc? You shouldn't have any problems with leaks if you haven't had any to this point. Do you currently burn any oil while using conventional oil?

[yucaton_tom]

Thanks for the comments guys - I'm in Houston, Texas (very hot). My 93 LS doesn't leak or burn any oil, and am seriously wanting to go with Mobil 1. I spoke to my very good mechanic about his opinion today and it was: His first choice - go with Castrol GTX 20W50 or next 10W40, but change every 3k miles. I am still seriously wanting to convert to Mobil 1 at 5K changes.

What viscosity would you recommend for Southern US climate?

Thanks again for your thoughts - the more you know about these LS models, the more you appreciate what a fine auto they are! Want to keep it a long time?

Tom

[steviej]

your car is 11 years old so I'm guessing the mileage is over 75k.

I suggest the Mobil 1 10w-30 synthetic. (High mileage forumla--green cap).

Change it and the filter (use a good quality filter like Mobil 1 or K&N) every 5k miles and you should be fine.

steviej

PS. Highly unlikely but should it start to leak, drain it out and go right back to dino. No problems

[mbpgawest]

steviej, how is the quality of the OEM filter compaired to Mobil or K&N. I'm considering changing to synthetic in my '97 LS w/ 78,000 miles and my wifes new '04 Toy. Sienna. In your opinion, should the LS w/78k use the high milage oil?

[monarch]

I use genuine Toyota oil and air filters because they have a long established track record of taking Toyota vehicles up to 400,000 - 692,000 mile range without an engine overhaul (and even when using conventional dinosaur oil). Example: here's what an owner of a 1976 Toyota pickup had to say on the Toyota Motorhomes forum:

"I figure since the '76 went 630,000 miles using Toyota filters,

they MUST be pretty good! Why use a "One size almost fits

all" filter when you can get the filters that were designed for

THAT specific engine? I learned my lesson the expensive way

a long time ago. For the most part, OEM parts are MUCH

better quality than those from parts stores and are made to

work the first time. I figure the engineers at Toyota know

MUCH more about my truck than the guys over at Allied-Signal

(Fram-Bendix), so I only use OEM filters, belts,

hoses, brake pads, or other parts. Possum"

[SKperformance]

funny enough honda and toyota only use a hand ful of filter part #'s per year

right now there are only 2 for honda which have moved all the filters into the passenger wheel well for removal

and i think 3 for toyota

[Lexusfreak]

mbp, the Mobil 1 or K & N filter are suppose to be superior to the OEM filters as they contain different filter media (the Mobil 1 is a synthetic filter media as opposed to the cardboard in normal oil filters). I've been using the Mobil 1 filter so far, but did purchase a couple of K & N oil filters when I went to the Florida Keys. I will report back if I notice any significant changes between the two......but they are considered the best available. Check out these links for more info: Also you might want to check out the the thread in this section titled "do you use synthetic oil" quite an intresting discussion. B)

k & n oil filter: http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm

Mobil 1 oil filter: http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp go to Mobil 1 products & look for the Mobil 1 oil filter. Hope this helps :)

[yucaton_tom]

Steviej,

Thanks for the info - we kinda drifted away from the original subject.

My LS has 190,000 miles - one owner and well cared for. With this kind of mileage do you still suggest the Mobil 1 High mileage formula?

Which viscosity would you recommend?

Thanks,

Tom

[monarch]

Here's a post from a Camry forum from an ownner who used Mobil 1 10W-30 high mileage formula in an older engine: Subject: [Camry] Mobil 1 oil damaged my engine.

Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:03:17 -0400

From: "Sternbach, William [iT]" <william.sternbach@citigroup.com>

Reply-To: Camry@yahoogroups.com

Hello,

In addition to owning a Toyota,

I own a 1994 Ford Econoline E150 with 78,000 miles on it.

It has the 4.9 Liter Inline 6 cylinder engine.

2 months ago, I decided to switch to Mobil 1 Synthetic 10W-30

multi-vehicle oil (for both newer and older vehicles (certified by Mobil

to be ok with older vehicles with over 75,000 miles on the oil seals)).

At the time of that oil change, I asked my trusted honest mechanic to

inspect the engine for leaks. He said there were no oil leaks.

After 2 months with the Mobil 1 oil, I started noticing a foul smelling smoke

from under my hood. I took it back to the same honest trusted mechanic,

and he said I now have a rear engine seal leak that started right after I

changed to Mobil 1 synthetic oil. The mechanic mentioned that Mobil 1

Synthetic is a fast acting oil, and that it penetrates oil seals in a short

amount of time.

So if I had saved almost $5 a quart by buying the Wal-Mart Store brand oil

like I used to use, I would be fine now. But because I tried Mobil 1 Synthetic

(which was guaranteed to be safe for engine seals), I now have a $500+ repair

to replace the rear engine seal (they have to replace the transmission to do this).

So my advise to anyone is to never use Synthetic oil (even if it says on the container

that its safe for engines with over 75,000 miles).

Using it will damage your oil seals.

- Bill

[blake918]

What viscosity would you recommend for Southern US climate?

Thanks again for your thoughts - the more you know about these LS models, the more you appreciate what a fine auto they are!  Want to keep it a long time?

Tom

Tom, I put in Mobile 1's 5w30 w/ Toy oil filter; I also live in the deep south-Louisiana. I use what's printed on the oil filler cap. No problems here! I too can appreciate what a fine auto the LS is...that's why I'm not ever going to sell it. :D

[yucaton_tom]

Thanks Blake - I am catching up to your 225K - isn't it incredible to have a car with this kind of mileage, and still be tight as new, and still fun to drive? I've probably owned thirty cars including a pristine BMW635, and the LS is my favorite.

I am still debating using the High mileage 10W-30 or the viscosity you are using. Why did you choose the 5W over the 10W?

[blake918]

Thanks Blake - I am catching up to your 225K - isn't it incredible to have a car with this kind of mileage, and still be tight as new, and still fun to drive?  I've probably owned thirty cars including a pristine BMW635, and the LS is my favorite.

I am still debating using the High mileage 10W-30 or the viscosity you are using.  Why did you choose the 5W over the 10W?

I chose the 5w30 only because that's the viscosity Lexus(?) engineers recommended on the filler cap. My brother has a Tacoma with 140k, and he decided to go up to a much higher viscosity. Needless to say, his fuel mpg went down by 2-4mpg, and I don't think his engine is protected that much more than when he used a thinner viscosity. To me, it seems like it would be easier for the engine to move around in water(5w30) rather than molasses(10w40)! lol

Man, I love my LS! :D I don't plan to ever get rid of her. The other night I dropped off a friend after a band rehersal. The funny thing is I punched the gas to hard, and I burnt the hell out of my Michelins!! B) Tire burning power still available with 230k on the clock is nothing short of incredible!....I'm a lifetime Lexus loyalist now!!!

[steviej]

mbpgawest: How does one speak about qualitly of filters if you don't stip down the engine and look at cylinder walls with a scanning photo-electronmicrograph?

What I mean to say is it is hard to judge quality other than by the seat of my pants. All three fitlers seem solidly built. All have ample filtering material and all have anti-drainback valves. All three have done their job when asked. I have used mobil 1 filters on my previous car and never had an oil issue of any kind. Car was sold at 150k miles and the valve rockers were clean as a whistle for what it is worth. I personally like the K&N filter because of the molded nut on the shell. The location of the filter on the ES allows for easy singing of your forearm on the exhaust manifold when trying to manuever a filter wrench in there. The K&N filter is easily loosened and tightened with a socket wrench and a 1" deep socket.

Toyota recently switched manufacturers of there oil filters to a site in Thailand. Previously it was made in Japan. To date, I have not heard any negative comments about them.

There are several sites that have cut apart oil filters and examined the material, constrution and design. Results are surprising. I can post them for you if you would like. But on the two I read, Mobil 1, K&N and Toyota OEM were highly rated.

yucaton_tom: I mention the high mileage formula simply because these formulations today have additives to help rejuventate the internal seals and hopefully extend there life. I am not saying they will bring a dry cracked seal back to the supple pliable texture it once had.

The owners manual (at least my 02) calls for either 5w-30 or 10w-30. This is all location temperature dependent. If you are in FL or So. Cal or TX and the temps rarely get below 30°, then 10w-30 will be fine. 10w-30 is also engineered for high mileage cars as the 5w-30 is not. I'm guessing these seal additives are not in the 5w-30.

The choice between synthetic or dino is totally up to you. You will notice that monarch (aka: saber on ClubLexus) is the anti-synthetic. He is Genuine Toyota Motor Oil advocate. You can read about it on CL or even here in a thread entitled "Do You Use Synthetic Oil?" I, on the other hand, prefer the synthetic, mostly because I live in New England and the synthetic offers better lubrication during extreme cold start up conditions. Last winter is was less than 10° each morning for almost 3 weeks in a row. I have also noted an slight increase in my gas mileage with the use of synthetic oil in my last car as well as in my Lexus. This is totally user dependent. Use of synthetic also extends MY change interval from 3000 mile with dino to 5000 miles with synthetic. The synthetic oil change interval that I feel comfortable with IS within Toyota recommendations. I do not feel comfortable with the conventional oil change interval of 5000 miles that Toyota recommends. But that is my feeling, not Toyota's

If you switch to synthetic and have a problem, then switch back to dino. I have read about some people that have done that. Similarly, you may have an experience similar to Blake in that absolutely nothing bad will happen when you switch.

The bottom line for both of you is:

1. Adopt a schedule that you are comfortable with and stick with it.

2. Use a grade of oil that is within manufacturers specs.

3. Use an oil that you are comfortable with.

4. Use an oil that you can afford. I stock up on synthetic when it is on sale.

5. Use a quality filter and change it with each oil change.

steviej

[steviej]

Regarding monarch's copied post of the Camry owner. It is strictly anecdotal, like all posts on these forums. For every post of someone that states switching to synthetic is bad, there are posts saying switching to synthetic is good. I must say I see more of the good stories than I do the bad ones.

In Bill's case, I can't make any judgement as he leaves out too many details. For example his oil change interval, whether or not he uses/used any oil additives, his driving habits, whether or not he always changed filters, etc.

For there to be a sudden leak in seals with a change to synthetic, there must have been something wrong with the seals before the synthetic got there. Like maybe alot of crud build up that was plugging gaps, cracks and already damaged areas of the seals. I can't say, cause did not see the engine in question. I can only ponder and offer alternative suggestions.

Synthetic oil does not cause leaks, it will sometimes uncover problem areas in seals hidden by conventional oils. The problem is not in the oil, it is in the seal.

steviej

[mbpgawest]

steviej, I'm going to put synthetic oil in my wifes new Toy. Sienna at it's first oil change, in about 2-3 weeks. I plan on sticking with the OEM filter. I notice in one of your posts that you say you stock up when syn. is on sale. What is a sales price on it? I saw Mobile one at costco for around $4 a quart. Thanks for your input.

[steviej]

When it is less than $25 for a six pack, then I get a couple boxes.

Occasionally Wal Mart has has the 4qt jugs for $18. That's ok, but I hate trying to pour 1/4 of the next jug.

The Cosco price is decent.

I went to get some in a local autoparts store and the guy said $37.74 when I placed a case of M1 on the counter. I put it back and laughed. He said what's so funny........I said, "your price".

steviej

[Lexusfreak]

I get a 4.4L (about 5 qt) jug for $27 Canadian (about $20 U.S.) at Walmart. I usually have a seperate 1L bottle I just top off with to bring the oil level right up. It's the most reasonably priced synthetic oil out there next to Castrol. Amsoil & Red Line are over $10 a litre!!! :chairshot:

[mbpgawest]

Thank you for your replies. I will check WalMart and see what they are asking. The LOC website is such a great place! I've had my car for almost 5 years now and just found this site about a month ago. Great people and excellent conversation, tips and opinions.

[yucaton_tom]

Well, I took the great feed back from you guys, and changed to Mobil 1 10W-30 green cap today. My 1993, 190K mile LS4 is already idling smoother - about 6000rpm at idle with the AC off! Incredible for a high mileage car - Truly a masterpiece in auto engineering!

Steviej said it right "Sythetic oil does not cause leaks - it will sometimes uncover problem areas.......". I don't know about you, but if my LS has worn out seals, I want to know about - plan on going to 500K with this one!

Just for the record, I used Toyota Filter 90915-20004. I bought a case of these about a year ago for my old 93 SC400 (sold) and 01 Tundra - all use the same filter.

Great feedback guys! Thanks!

[yucaton_tom]

Oh yeah! Current Walmart Houston, Texas price for the Mobil 1 green cap 10W-30 is right at $4.00/qt.

[steviej]

My 1993, 190K mile LS4 is already idling smoother - about 6000rpm at idle with the AC off!

Just for the record, I used Toyota Filter 90915-20004. I bought a case of these about a year ago for my old 93 SC400 (sold) and 01 Tundra - all use the same filter.

dude, you mean 600 rpm, right? 6000 rpm is kissin' the redline.

as for the -20004 oil filters. Throw them up on ebay and you could fetch $20+ each for them. People are fanatical about that filter.

I am glad all worked out for you. Enjoy the ride and this site to your fullest.

steviej

[yucaton_tom]

Thanks for all your info Steviej - I haven't tried to find more of the -20004 filters since I have a stock, but are you saying they are no longer available at Toyota dealers? What filter are you using?

[steviej]

the -20004 filter was made in Japan and discontinuted in DEC 2003 when Denso moved their filter production to Thailand.

The newer -YZZD3 is for V8s and the -YZZD1 is for V6s. So far I haven't heard any complaints.

here is a link to a thread that talks about the filters:

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...c=8223&hl=yzzd3

steviej.