nancyd Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Hi! I'm back . . . I thought I'd check in to see what's new . . . came across the post re tires. Some of you might recall the nightmare I had with my Lexus 330 that came with Dunlops. To make a long story - and I mean a long story - short: I now have Michelin's on the car. The dealer had to replace them. I had the car in their shop for over a week (reminder: I live 100+ miles from the dealer). To their credit (after I refused to take another day away from my two businesses) they drove up to pick up my car and dropped off a Lexus SUV (sorry, numbers escape me), pearl white and comfy. When they returned my car it had Michelins on it. I'm still not 100% convinced the vibration was/is with the tires. I'm ultra sensitive to road feel and, quite frankly, I still want to say my Avalon was a smoother riding vehicle. This past weekend I finally hit 3,000 miles -- so perhaps I'm still in break-in mode. I was a passenger in the car (very unusual) and from my vantage point I could feel every single bump in the road - annoyingly so. And darn that automatic down shift from 5th to 4th! The first couple of times it happened, I was sure something was wrong with the transmission. The sensation is very noticeable - almost feels as if I was touching the brake, that's how much the car responds. There is a hill (lots of these in northern New Hampshire) that I have to go down each day and I'm usually going between 45-50 miles an hour at the crest of the hill. I usually have to slow the car down a bit as I get closer to the bottom and it's then that I feel the down shift. I'm getting used to it, but it's different than anything I ever experienced before. Just some recent observations. Oh, by the way - I'm also not convinced that the Mark Levinson sound system is any better than what I had in the Avalon (JVC or JBL). The Avalon sound system was as superior a system as any we've ever had. I'm still waiting for my ears to adjust to the new system. The Levinson system does not have the full body sound I have come to appreciate! And the sound controls seem lacking in variability. Has anyone done any speaker modifications in their ES 330? Nancy D.
SW03ES Posted June 16, 2004 Author Posted June 16, 2004 Hey Nancy. What PSI are the tires inflated to? Like I've mentioned before Lexus are very VERY sensitive to the inflation of the tires, and dealerships ALWAYS over inflate the tires. My guess is if the tires haven't been checked they're somewhere like 40 right now. Try playing with the pressure to get it right, anywhere from 26-32 is going to be the ride you're looking for. Start by inflating the tires to 32 and carrying a tire pressure gauge. Drive it one day at 32, deflate to 31, drive a day, deflate to 30 all the way until you find a ride you like. On my new tires it seems to be 29, whereas on the Bridgestones it was 31 or so. Different tires are different. Has the vibration at least calmed down? The Lexus IS going to ride different from the Avalon. The Avalon is designed to ride more like a Buick or a Lincoln, floaty and boaty. The Lexus rides tighter and more controlled but you shouldn't feel all the bumps in the road. Somethings definately wrong. In the Avalon you should have felt like you were kind of floating down the road. The Lexus should feel like you're always driving on a perfectly smooth road. We got a new Prius about 2 months ago and it has the same JBL system as the Avalon. One isn't neccisarily better than the other but they are different. The JBL is a louder more "rock and roll" system while the ML is more refined and more suited to instrumental and classical music. Its really an opinion thing. The speakers can definately be changed in the ML system as can the amp to change the way the music sounds. It sounds to me though like you're kind of focused in on this car being exactly like the Avalon. Its not, they're two different cars designed for two different buyers. If I may ask, why didn't you buy another Avalon?
es30014 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Nancyd, I totally agree with you....my es rides like crap and rattles like crap and etc.....also I still think that something "big" is loose underneath the bottom of the front of the car because I always hear it....loudly...and it sounds like something is messed up...... DOES ANYONE THINK MY ES MIGHT BE A LEMON?
SW03ES Posted June 16, 2004 Author Posted June 16, 2004 One thing I can suggest to both of you is go to a dealership and drive another ES for comparison. Take a tire pressure gauge and make sure the tires are aired just like your car. If your car doesn't ride the same, then something is wrong with it though. This is just my opinion, and I've mentioned it to ES14 before but I think you both are a little too sensitive about the way the cars behave. If you're always looking for trouble then trouble is always going to be there for you to find. Any car is a machine, and machines make noises. Thats just the nature of the beast. In Nancy's case it appears to me (and has for some time) that she's convinced herself that her previous Avalon was the best car she's ever had (she's made that statement numerous time about the ride, the powertrain and the stereo). Well when you're convinced that something is the best you've ever had then you're never going to allow yourself to be satisfied with something else. Thats just human nature. I've driven both the Avalon and obviously the ES and to be honest, I don't see a lot of difference. The Avalon is a little bigger and a little boatier but the Lexus is a little smoother and a little quieter (mostly in wind noise which is to be expected as the ES is more aerodynamic). Everything in life is a tradeoff and nothing is perfect. In ES14's case it seems that he is hypersensitive to every little noise or shimmy the car makes. I remember you posting about a grinding noise starting from a start on a wet road once, you were completely convinced that something was horribly wrong with the car. I suggested that it was probably the VSC system kicking in to control wheel slippage. As for the ride I've suggested several times that a new set of tires, balanced properly with a fresh alignment would help. It helped my car a great deal. It rides so well now I didn't realize truly how poor the other tires were. As for the rattles I always ask if you've taken it into Lexus. Durring the warranty they investigate and fix all rattles for free. I've had two rattles, the rear door rattle which they fixed under warranty and an upper windshield rattle which they'll fix at the next stop (there's a TSB). Have you tried to have Lexus look at the car? If there's a rattle underneath there are a couple things that could be wrong that are common. It could be a loose heat shield or a loose front end shield. Not meaning to be rude or say there ISN'T something wrong with your cars, I'm just providing my admittedly very outside view on the situation.
es30014 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Although I didn't post this, a few months ago I had the ES in the dealership and they fixed a bunch of things.... got a whole new brake system...the one I had was defected fixed the belt screech and replaced it....cause was gleazing "they claimed they couldn't hear the rattle underneath the front of the car on the test drive"...whatever... they put in the door kit in the rear doors....I never have had rattles from the rear doors...it's all in the panels between the doors on both sides...they've never fixed that... I do think that it is a loose front end shield...maybe something I can fix myself? I know you think I am "hypersensitive" but I'm not...you haven't been in mine to see how it does... And in fact it's not even the ride that bothers me that much...it's the rattles.... I have a 97' Chevrolet 1500 Truck with 120,000 miles on it and it DOES NOT RATTLE AT ALL....now what's up with that????
es30014 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 and also they gave me an is loaner car and it didn't rattle
SW03ES Posted June 16, 2004 Author Posted June 16, 2004 The brakes glazing is very common, mine did it too and they replaced them. 2k miles later they're glazed AGAIN! The dealer says they'll keep on replacing them, at the end of the warranty I'll just buy better pads. If the loaner didn't rattle then there is definately something wrong with yours. How many miles were on the loaner? Loaners get abused and if they can rattle they will. Do me a favor, look on the drivers door of yours at the registration sticker and tell me the build date. I'm thinking its an early production car and thats your problem. Aside from the rattle in the windshield that's going to be fixed at the next service stop mine rides totally silent and it has almost 25,000 miles on it, many of them city miles. If the shield is loose then yes you could check it yourself. Go to Pep Boys or somewhere and buy some cheap front wheel ramps and drive the car up on them. Once under the car you'll see the shield basically covers the entire front end. Check it to see if its loose. A lot of times shops even dealers loose some of the fasteners or don't tighten them. I've even seen the shields come off. Can you feel that rattle or just hear it? If you can feel it then it might be something more serious. Lastly, go see another dealer. The dealer should investigate all your concerns without giving you trouble. My dealer replaced by front brakes without ever "feeling" the glazing in the rain for themselves, they trusted me that it was there. Thats how the dealer SHOULD react to your concerns.
es30014 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 The loaner car was an IS300 not an ES300...I was stating that to say that other Lexus cars DON'T RATTLE The build date is: 01/02...purchased in 03/02 Yes, I can feel the rattle as well....it shakes the whole front end driver's side of the car.......I checked and the shield didn't seem loose to me Back when we were test driving the ES, the one we test drove did not rattle and rode really smooth...........if it had rattled and rode bad we WOULD NOT have bought it! That's the reason we wanted this car....because it is supposed to (and the test drive model did) ride good, be extremely quiet, no road noise, and besides the fact that it is a LEXUS! In fact we narrowed the choices down to the ES or a Cadillac CTS...I bet it doesn't rattle....it didn't. Back on that rattle underneath the front of the car....when on the highway going 70 or + the vibration can also be heard inside the air conditioner vent on the driver's side closest to the door. Do you think that whatever this problem is might cause all the rattles in the rest of the car?? Maybe it's something wrong with the suspension?? Maybe that's why it rides bad???? Do you think it would be wise to trade it in for an ES330 or wait until the ES is redesigned (and hopefully when it is they will fix the problems) <_<
amf1932 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Gee......I am very tuned in to all kinds of strange sounds that my '03 makes, but the only one that bothered me was the rear door creaking(rattle). This was fixed very quickly by my dealer. At the moment this car has absolutely NO noises on smooth roads as well as poorly paved roads. I'm still not too thrilled with the transmission shifting and I believe that this is caused by the electronic throttle. I say this because I had a similar feeling while driving my cousins BMW 740IL which also had an electronic throttle. I'm learning to live with it though since this car has many more great features that I haven't found in other manufacturers automobiles.
SW03ES Posted June 16, 2004 Author Posted June 16, 2004 Yep, the transmission issue is definately the electronic throttle. My question about this is, if electronic throttles provide jerky response then why use them? Who knows...
es30014 Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Well, amf1932, after what you and SW03ES tell me about how quiet your ES is on any road....and mine still rattles some on the good roads....I definately think something is wrong with mine........so what should be the next step I take??
SW03ES Posted June 16, 2004 Author Posted June 16, 2004 I'd take it to a different Lexus dealer if one is nearby, if not take it back to the same one and have the service manager ride in the car and see what he says.
mburnickas Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 Well I got the Toyo Proxes TPT installed today. They were $129 retail but sometimes of sale for $109.95 plus balance, mounting & fee for old tires. I went throught my in-laws and got them for $305 installed! I also got 215/60-15 vs 205/65-15/ I know my Dunlap 4000 SUCKED! After 22,000 miles they had about 4 to 5K left. Junk tire!
mburnickas Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 Well, FWIW I feel they have more road noise so far (only gone 25 miles) then the Dunlap 4000. The tread pattern looks better for performace and in the rain then the Dunlaps. Snow is still an "I do not know" until this winter in good old Massachusetts. They are supposed to last 60K miles vs half that for the crap Dunlaps. I had 22K miles on them and I can't beleive how the tread wear sucked big time! The TPT handle better but that could be because of the wider tire. Oh, the 205/60/R15 TPT are like $65 each installed, whosesale price. I almost went with the Yokohama AVID for $59 out the door but I needed to wait till latter in the day, so I said nope.
Lexusfreak Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 I don't have any noticable tire noise at all on mine how about you sw? (what tire pressure have you set them at & did you do a 4 wheel alignment?) You should notice a more softer, comfortable & compliant ride than the Dunlop's mburn & I bet you will be impressed with the rain & wet weather performance of them as well! Keep us posted. The snow traction is better than the Michelin MXV4's that I know for sure......but we still can't go nut's in the winter as it's still an "all season" tire. :)
mburnickas Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 By noise I mean you hear the tire more now and before I did not. The alignment was perfect and they did not do anything since it was within spec. Soft is well, maybe yes, but still to soon to say for sure. I know my Dunlap’s with 22K miles started to spin in the rain. Trust me if they last only 40K miles I will be more then happy. Plus on the way home I had to buy a new toy, so the tires were not all the talk!
Lexusfreak Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 40k miles should be no problem on the TPT's. B) I hope they perform well for you!
SW03ES Posted August 20, 2004 Author Posted August 20, 2004 Ooh a new toy LOL what did you buy? As for the noise, I noticed that too at the very beginning, but the tires have about 3000 miles on them now and they've gotten MUCH better. The tire dealer said that Toyos generally need a couple k to "smooth out" the tread blocks and get the super quiet ride I wanted, so far he's 100% right. We just took the Lexus on a trip to the beach (150 miles each way) 2 trips to New Jersey (250 miles each way) and a trip down to Kings Dominion (100miles each way) and the tires have gotten much quieter. Also check the tire pressure, tire places always WAY overinflate the tires. They should be 29psi cold. The more pressure the louder they are.
Lexusfreak Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 29 psi sw? (perhaps the 02+ is slightly lower? ) My 01 says 32 psi all around on the door jamb & I confirmed with 2 Lexus dealers as well. :)
chuckb Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 I tore through a pair of toyo proxes tpt in about 10k miles on my 95 es. Partly my fault because I didn't rotate enough . But still seemed to wear quickly. I have bfg traction ta's now . They are nice riding. Only have about 1k on them I have never noticed tire noise in my es. My gs430 however,has stock eagle gt+4s w/22k on them and they are pretty loud
mburnickas Posted August 20, 2004 Posted August 20, 2004 SW03ES --Well the new toy I bought is here. I S&W model 500 (the larger gun). I could not pass it up. It makes my 44 look like a toy. http://home.comcast.net/~burnickas_guns/model500.html :whistles::whistles: I guess you have to like guns I guess. Wife thinks I am nuts. I told here the item was for her protection. She laughed and said from what, Big foot! But I do hope the toyos quiets down some. The wife needs tires this fall so I might try the Yoko's maybe if these do not quiet down. I will go check the air PSI now.
SW03ES Posted August 20, 2004 Author Posted August 20, 2004 The difference is the 15 inch wheels on your 98 vs the 16s on the 03 I guess. Make sure they're 32 though, my guess is they're more like 40-45. They ASSURED me that they had aired my tiures to 29 when I got them installed, and they were between 40-45. Immediately quieter once I adjusted them. Chuck- Did you get Toyo to pay for the new tires under their pro-rated plan for the treadwear coverage?
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