2002 Es300 Transmission "jolt"--nightmare In Stop-and-go Tra

[kashi125]

Ok so this is just a rant and also to get some opinion to make sure this is "normal" behavior and not my transmission failing...

I recently sold my 97 ES300 and bought a 2002 ES300. It has 78K miles on it. The 97 ES was my first Lexus and I was so impressed with the quality and reliability that I decided to stick with Lexus for my next car. I was loving the 02 ES--until today when I was stuck in stop-and-go traffic for half an hour. Every time the car ahead of me moved and I pressed on gas, there was a noticeable "jolt"--not hesitation, but the car "lurching forward" all of a sudden. I immediately noticed it and so would anyone else if I had passengers in the car.

Note that I don't experience the "hesitation" that has been mentioned in the sticky. Other than this stop-and-go condition, my transmission shifts pretty smoothly (usually around 2000 RPM for most gears) and acceleration is pretty good too. But this jolt is driving me crazy! It is very "un-Lexus" I am going to ask the dealer to look up by VIN to see if the transmission software reflash has been done on this car and if not, will get it done. Would it still be free now that it is out of warranty? If not, how much do they charge for it?

Other owners of 02-06 ES, do you guys experience the same thing?

[wwest]

Ok so this is just a rant and also to get some opinion to make sure this is "normal" behavior and not my transmission failing...

I recently sold my 97 ES300 and bought a 2002 ES300. It has 78K miles on it. The 97 ES was my first Lexus and I was so impressed with the quality and reliability that I decided to stick with Lexus for my next car. I was loving the 02 ES--until today when I was stuck in stop-and-go traffic for half an hour. Every time the car ahead of me moved and I pressed on gas, there was a noticeable "jolt"--not hesitation, but the car "lurching forward" all of a sudden. I immediately noticed it and so would anyone else if I had passengers in the car.

Note that I don't experience the "hesitation" that has been mentioned in the sticky. Other than this stop-and-go condition, my transmission shifts pretty smoothly (usually around 2000 RPM for most gears) and acceleration is pretty good too. But this jolt is driving me crazy! It is very "un-Lexus" I am going to ask the dealer to look up by VIN to see if the transmission software reflash has been done on this car and if not, will get it done. Would it still be free now that it is out of warranty? If not, how much do they charge for it?

Other owners of 02-06 ES, do you guys experience the same thing?

If your ES300 isn't DBW, e-throttle, you may be about to experience a premature transaxle failure (78,000 miles would be right on the "nose".) like those for the 99-00 RX series.

DBW was adopted (in 2003??) to "protect the drive train" in favor of endangering the driver and passengers via a 1-2 second downshift delay/hesitation.

[kashi125]

wwest--what's DBW?

Edit: Ah never mind, you mean Drive By Wire. I thought this started in 2002 and was the whole cause of the transmission hesitation/jerking?

[wwest]

wwest--what's DBW?

Edit: Ah never mind, you mean Drive By Wire. I thought this started in 2002 and was the whole cause of the transmission hesitation/jerking?

You're correct, DBW was adopted for the Camry in 2002.

But the TSB concerning the downshift delay/hesitation wasn't issued until the August of 2003...??

Have you yet checked to be sure the ATF level is low, or too high...??

[kashi125]

The ATF level is normal and it looks to be in good condition from the color/smell.

I think the TSB came out after enough complaints had been filed--that is why it took a while.

[amf1932]

Ok so this is just a rant and also to get some opinion to make sure this is "normal" behavior and not my transmission failing...

I recently sold my 97 ES300 and bought a 2002 ES300. It has 78K miles on it. The 97 ES was my first Lexus and I was so impressed with the quality and reliability that I decided to stick with Lexus for my next car. I was loving the 02 ES--until today when I was stuck in stop-and-go traffic for half an hour. Every time the car ahead of me moved and I pressed on gas, there was a noticeable "jolt"--not hesitation, but the car "lurching forward" all of a sudden. I immediately noticed it and so would anyone else if I had passengers in the car.

Note that I don't experience the "hesitation" that has been mentioned in the sticky. Other than this stop-and-go condition, my transmission shifts pretty smoothly (usually around 2000 RPM for most gears) and acceleration is pretty good too. But this jolt is driving me crazy! It is very "un-Lexus" I am going to ask the dealer to look up by VIN to see if the transmission software reflash has been done on this car and if not, will get it done. Would it still be free now that it is out of warranty? If not, how much do they charge for it?

Other owners of 02-06 ES, do you guys experience the same thing?

I started a thread back in May,2003 that covers the same thing you're talking about. Spend some time reading some of these posts here>> http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...?showtopic=3584

[kashi125]

I started a thread back in May,2003 that covers the same thing you're talking about. Spend some time reading some of these posts here>> http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index...?showtopic=3584

amf1932: I did read most, if not all of that thread. The problem is that I am not experiencing any of the "hesitation" mentioned in that thread. Slowing down from highway speed to 30-40 mph and then suddenly accelerating works great on my car--no delay or hesitation there. I don't think my car has any of the reflash upgrades as I could not find the "modification label" anywhere.

If I remember correctly from that thread, you got the latest reflash done. Did you experience these "jerks" in stop-and-go traffic before or after the reflash? Of course you might not remember since you have the 07 ES350 now. Lucky you :D

[amf1932]

Your description is exactly the reason I first complained about this transmission.

Every time the car ahead of me moved and I pressed on gas, there was a noticeable "jolt"--not hesitation, but the car "lurching forward" all of a sudden. I immediately noticed it and so would anyone else if I had passengers in the car.

Yes, my car had this problem from the first day I drove it out of the showroom, and continued for about 3 years. I had EVERY TSB re-flash done which didn't help at all, and that determined why I finally traded this car for the ES350. If I recall, the total mileage on the odometer was about 16K miles.

P.S. Here's a sticky from another Lexus message board where certain members complained about your problem.

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87068

[SW03ES]

That sounds like the DBW throttle. You get used to adapting your acceleration techniques to it. My Dad's 98 LS400 and 04LS430 do it too.

[kashi125]

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback.

Now I can't make up my mind about the reflash. I don't have any other problems such as the one steviej mentioned in the CL sticky:

"...The major problem we all hate, the push the pedal to the floor-watch the tach skyrocket and wait for the car to catch up..."

My acceleration is nice and smooth with all the gears shifting when they should. The only problem is the jerk when starting from a stop. I guess I can live with this, rather than having other problems after the reflash.

[amf1932]

I suggest that you DON'T do the flash, since once you do, you can't go back if you don't like it! I did, and it was the sorriest thing I ever did. It caused me to trade in my very low mileage, mint '03ES, because I hated the shift pattern afterwards.

The re-flash will NOT eliminate your problem.

[camlex]

make sure they don't use any chemicals. just plain fluid....

[amf1932]

make sure they don't use any chemicals. just plain fluid....

This problem has nothing whatsoever to do with fluids! ;)

[SW03ES]

Skip the reflash...

You've just got to get used to it. You will, I've put 110k on mine and I hardly ever notice it anymore.

[IamThFEAR]

I'm about 1000 miles into the tranny update and yes it's definatley not perfect but before the jerk was just terrible. All in all I'm happy, it's hard to find anything you don't like about this car, excluding the cup holders... =)

[steviej]

My acceleration is nice and smooth with all the gears shifting when they should. The only problem is the jerk when starting from a stop. I guess I can live with this, rather than having other problems after the reflash.

have your ECU checked for the version.......it sounds like you have the most recent version.

steviej

[amf1932]

My acceleration is nice and smooth with all the gears shifting when they should. The only problem is the jerk when starting from a stop. I guess I can live with this, rather than having other problems after the reflash.

have your ECU checked for the version.......it sounds like you have the most recent version.

steviej

I'm sure you guys that had the final flash version noticed that the 1-2 upshift, and the 2-3 upshift happened at a much higher RPM/speed. That's the main reason that I didn't like this flash, aside from the fact that I didn't notice any improvement in the characteristics of the transmission. I was totally unhappy and frustrated with this car in this respect, but otherwise I loved it. The straw that broke the camels back was when I was driving back from a wedding I attended. The traffic was stop and go for many miles, and everytime I slowed down and then tried to accelerate, I would get the hard jerk/jolt, no matter how careful I was when pressing the accelerator pedal. My passengers even questioned why this was happening, including an 8 year old girl passenger who asked, "Is there something wrong with your car".

I was a limo driver years ago and I learned the proper essentials when transporting passengers, to avoid hard braking, smooth acceleration, and take turns at a reasonable speed, so the passengers had the most comfortable ride possible. I found it near impossible with my ES's setup!

I'm sure that steviej's '06 GS eliminated this problem, as it has done on my '07 ES.

[kashi125]

I'm about 1000 miles into the tranny update and yes it's definatley not perfect but before the jerk was just terrible. All in all I'm happy, it's hard to find anything you don't like about this car, excluding the cup holders... =)

About the cup holders: Ditto on that! I would say all in all I am also pretty happy about the car. Had I bought it brand new for >40K, I would have been very *BLEEP*ed though. But I got a decent price and it's got everything I can think of--navigation, premium sound etc so I am willing to ignore the cup holders and the occasional transmission jerk :) BTW, anyone have any idea where I can get the plastic curved "arm" that extends from the cup holders? My passenger side cup holder's arm is broken...

...

I'm sure you guys that had the final flash version noticed that the 1-2 upshift, and the 2-3 upshift happened at a much higher RPM/speed.

...

In my case, if I accelerate very slowly (driving like a grandma)--the upshift for every gear occurs at exactly 2000 RPM.

[slim goody]

Reset ecu...by turning key to on position,but don't start car...hold gas pedal to the floor for exactly 3 seconds,the return key to off position for exactly 2 minutes exactly...ecu will reset and if tps hasn't been miss adjusted...you car will shift smoother,excelarate faster on the down shift ,and hesitation will be much improved...please...premium gas is a must!!!! Try this simple solution...it worked for me and others who have this outstanding car with that experimental FBW, trust me the1MZFE is a top shelf engine combined with a strong tranny...they should have just lost that FBW until they perfected it...just saying...

Edited September 30, 2016 by slim goody
forgot some important coments