arsmtts Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Remember, sell fuels. If you are looking for fuel from Sunoco, the "problem" is - SUNOCO is based out of Marcus Hook, PA and they only market this product regionally. Alternatives to increase Octane would be to buy and mix an appropriate of a product like (TrackTec) or other 100 Octane Unleaded Fuels, or an appropriate amount of Octane Booster. Higher Octane Fuels are an insurance policy but not necessarily (or automatically and always) a performance enhancer. These cars are designed with a Knock Sensor which says if the engine senses knock due to higher octane demand than is available, it will !Removed! the timing of the engine. Unless the driver is extremely experienced in analyzing engine performance, he will never know the timing was retarded - because of the sophistication of the Engine Control Module. In theory, if higher octane fuel is available if and when the engines Octane Demand increases (due to heat, excess idling, car under load w/ AC in hilly terain towing a trailer), the engine would take advantage of it. To detect the difference would (probably) take some sophistecated analysis - unless the engine knocked and pinged to the point you could hear it - which will probably never happen unless you get some truly bad gas w/ water, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsmtts Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Sorry for the typos...This first sentence in my last posts should say, "Remember, I sell fuels". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 The VSC doesn't have anything to do with the hesitation, its purely a computer problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexdriver Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 I mean the other way... The computer problem (hesitation) may cause... the VSC operates not properply / functionally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Naa, I doubt it. They dont come with VSC anymore so it doesnt matter ;) Lexus cancelled it until 04. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amf1932 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Hey SW03ES, Do you have any info on the '04 ES, such as accessories offered, changes in mechanical stuff, etc? If you do, where can I read about it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Sure don't. My guess is its not going to be any different, just the powertrain. Maybe some non sheetmetal changes like a taillight upgrade or something. The new VSC system is out from what I can tell, because the RX330 has it. Just a "2.0" like deal there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NR4P Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 With respect to transmission problem, first 03 ES300 I test drove, tranny was awful. Salesman tried to BS, so we left. Different dealership, different ES300, smooth as silk. Purchased that one (Leather, Wood kit, memory, trunk mat, HID, Sunshade, DVD Nav, 6CD changer, but not Mark Levinson). 5k miles still smooth. With respect to gas, cars will tell you what they want. Knocking, pinging etc. Todays computer systems can adjust mixture and performance to adapt to different fuel types. My 96 I30, knocked on regular, my 03 ES300, runs smooth on regular. Not a peep. Tried premium, couldn't notice a difference. Don't let TV advertising make you think you need to spend more money. Those cleaners etc they add, its one can in a whole big tanker. Friend in gas delivery business (Port Everglades, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl) says he delivers for all the big guys. Same tanks, same tankers but depending on company, he has to add a few gallons of additive before he leaves the port. As he said "ever notice the tankers dont have names on them anymore, just silver with pop on signs". Use regular, $1.45 today. Wish I lived in Carolina's where it's even lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviej Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 my dad drives fuel trucks too. You are right, the fuel is all the same, the secret is in each company's mix. Grandma's secret ingredient so to speak. It is funny to see the Exxon Tanker, Mobil Tanker, Shell Tanker, Citgo Tanker and the Texaco Tanker all filling up at the same loading terminal. A bottle of Chevron w?Techron every other oil change is just as good as the detergent gas from the pump. But I still run the premium. It is down to $1.59 in a couple stations here. (regular is as low as $1.42) steveij Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amf1932 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 NR4P, My transmission is perfectly smooth also! What the complaints are is the hesitation when downshifting at certain speeds, such as passing another vehicle or slowing down to about 2mph and than trying to speed up. There is a lurch which is very annoying. I have driven over 12 '02-'03 ES's and they ALL exhibited this behavior! This aptly put quote is taken from an Edmunds Road Test of the '02 ES: The V6 has been mated to a new transmission, upgraded from a four-speed to a closer-ratio five-gear unit. Upshifts are crisp enough, but downshifts are sludgy and come only after the car thinks about it for a while. Under most normal driving circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable, but trying to wring some spirit out of the ES 300 is more of an exercise in futility; it's as if some goblin had poured butterscotch sauce into the fluid reservoir. This could be attributed to our test car's status as a prototype vehicle; future production units could be in for more fine-tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I still run the premium too, I figure what the hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drivelongtime Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Such an old topic. This "debate" has been around since I can remember. I once had a Buick Wagon (remember them) and it ran fine on lower octane unless the car was full (of kids) on a long trip. It would ping, so I would use a higher octane. All the technical explanations are grest, but it is quite simple, the higher the octane the faster the "burn". Nothing more or less. No more power, no more pep, just a faster burn. Contrary to what I have read here, there is no warranty issue related to octane, not in my manual and I doubt it is in yours. If you are experiencing pinging move to a higher octane. But for most, the increase in octane is simply a feel good issue. If you feel it makes a difference then spend the extra money and buy it. That's why the Lexus sells in the first place. That logo does not make it run better than another Toyota or BMW, but many of us fee that it does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbsal Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 i have to disagree with that.a faster burn i do agree with and what do you think a faster burn does??that means it uses less fuel to run your engine and in fact will give better performance.also it burns more clean.a person that uses low octane has more build up of carbon and will eventully kill the fuel pump and have other fuel related issues then a person running high test.fast is lexus didnt just put premium fuel on some of there cars for nothing.some need it because thats what they are tuned to use.others dont need it but it is a good idea to use it. good example is my freind that takes the cheap way out and allways uses low test gas and sure enough his car starting running like a junk yard car and it was a clogged fuel injecter and his throttle body looked almost black!it toke 2 huge cans of throttle body cleaner just to help him clean that thing out.thats what using low test gas does to your car!thats just my 2 sence anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 See article in USA Today published at end of July. You can find on http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-0...remiumgas_x.htm This article goes against common beliefs held by most drivers. Article's bottom line: regular fuel lowers engine power. That is all. Car manufacturers' want you to realize all the horsepower they advertise. Petroleum companies want to sell as much high grade fuel as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbsal Posted August 15, 2003 Share Posted August 15, 2003 auto engineers estimate that power declines roughly 5%. "We can't guarantee the vehicle will perform as specified if other than premium fuel is used," says Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman Michelle Murad. All U.S. Mercedes engines specify premium. i think the point is we have lexus's and we want the best for our cars!in my opinoin i wouldnt use regular but some people like my freind does but i think hes crazy.5% drop in performance is enough for me to keep using premiom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z2die4 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I have never read so much misinformation in my life. Cleaner burning & Carbon Buildup High octane to low octane does not burn "cleaner". There is no additional carbon build up between regular and premium. Its more likely that gas from a less expensive refiner, such as arco, texaco is causing that problem. Using a better refiner should usually clear that problem up. Try shell, 76, or chevron, or mobil. In different areas of the country, this will be different. This is whats good in California and probably most western states. Fuel Mileage If you really think that it makes any difference in terms of fuel mileage, then you have absolutely no business posting information which other people think is from an informed person. Fuel is sprayed into the combustion chamber. At x RPM, with x intake of air, the engine computer is gonna spray x amount of fuel, regardless of fuel grade. Its ludicrous to think it will spray less of the higher grade. As stated in previous posts, the car will !Removed! ignition and cut power, but no fuel savings. There is no additional carbon build up between regular and premium. Its more likely that gas from a less expensive refiner, such as arco, texaco is causing the problem. Using a better refiner should usually clear that problem up. Try shell, 76, or chevron. You get what you pay for... Performance would probably be effected significantly. The car also might knock on hot days, or during hard acceleration. If you drive like grandma, and live somewhere cold, you will probably never see the difference between regular and premium & wonder why you pay the difference (TELL YOURSELF TO SHUT UP). Why would you want to even take a chance on your expensive investment for about $150 a year difference in fuel cost. Even slight pinging can cause major damage to your internals. DONT RISK IT. I hope this helped someone. Please feel free to comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z2die4 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 One thing to remember THE HIGHER THE OCTANE THE SLOWER THE BURN. You add high octane in sporty cars and turbo cars, to slow down combustion to decrease the amount of heat build up in the engine. A fast burn will increase heat and melt expensive internals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbsal Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Fuel Mileage If you really think that it makes any difference in terms of fuel mileage, then you have absolutely no business posting information which other people think is from an informed person. Fuel is sprayed into the combustion chamber. At x RPM, with x intake of air, the engine computer is gonna spray x amount of fuel, regardless of fuel grade. Its ludicrous to think it will spray less of the higher grade. As stated in previous posts, the car will !Removed! ignition and cut power, but no fuel savings. ok i have to disagree with you on this.nobody said it sprays less fuel using premium gas then using regular thats just stupid..i said exactly what you said!a slower burn will do what???? It will give better performance and of course will save on some gas mileage.commen sense tells you if a car is using regular gas and burning fuel faster then you have to hit the gas harder to get it to perform right? well then with premium gas you get better performance and dont have to push the gas pedal as hard and thats were you save on gas!!! think about it.we are all hear to provide opinoins and to say someone dont belong here for giving there opinoin is wrong.read the millions of reveiws that say it does save on gas because it performes better so there less pushing on the petal then with regular and thats were it saves.just my opinoin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbsal Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 also heres something from some gas analyist guy and what he says interests me. What's going to happen if you use 87 or 89 octane gas is that the knock sensor is going to tell the computer to !Removed! the timing to keep it from knocking, so one tank of the low grade stuff is not going to ruin the engine. But, it will worsen the performance and in all likelihood reduce the fuel economy, so it actually may not wind up cheaper to use the cheaper gas. And over the long term it could hurt the engine because it could cause excessive carbon buildup. thats from some gas analisit guy so like i said eveyone has a opinoin on this issue.i truly beleave it does save on some sort of gas and difenitly on performance so overall i recomend it to anyone with a lexus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbsal Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 one more quote!lol im getting crazy with it now! :P whether the lower octane gas will cause reduced performance and/or economy, that does depend on many factors. If all you're doing is idling in traffic a lot of the time, it probably won't matter much either way. But under acceleration when the knock sensor detects engine knock (as it will on lower octane gas), then it will !Removed! the timing, and this will worsen both performance and fuel economy. And because the engine is not burning fuel as efficiently when it's running with retarded timing, it can cause carbon buildup in the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSS Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I have always used premium gas in my 1994 ls 400 and now purchased a new ls 430. The manual calls for premium gas, but I heard that you really do not need to use it. Has anyone else heard this, and should it be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW03ES Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 In theory, you can run regular gas, But you just bought a new $65,000 car, you've been running premium since 1992, might as well keep on. To me the small added cost is well worth giving the car what it "requires" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewzdoc Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 If you use anything under 91 octane you run the risk of knocking and pinging due to pre-ignition. This is due to the high compression ratios of the engine. This was what was explained to me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obergc Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I would read the owners manual and do what it says. I imagine that your car has a knock sensor like my 93 LS and if the engine is knocking, it will !Removed! the timing but this means your engine is not running the way it was designed to. Why would you want to risk harming your expensive engine in your expensive car to save a few bucks. Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG LEX Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I agree with all the posts, I would do what the manual says (min 91 octane) and not listen to what others have done. Im sure most of us are familiar with SUNOCO gas station, has anyone noticed a difference by using their ULTRA 94 gas, with octane level 94, rather than any other gas with a max octane of 91 ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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