Hey guys. i'm currently driving a 2003 Rx300 awd with nav, but i'm getting a little tired of it. I've done so many modifications with it, they're beginning to break, i'm having electrical issues, it's just a big mess. I think it's time i start looking for my next one.

My parents (I'm 20yo btw) were planning on upgrading me when i graduate college in '11 but they're talking about getting me a new one this summer, wanting to keep the rx300 as a spare for long trips etc (since my parents lease and often go over their mileage limit...).

I'm torn between what i want. My budget will be in the $30-$40k range, and i'd prefer to get something no older than 2 years old (so 07's or newer).

I really like having an SUV for the height and snow control, but i know a lot of sedans have AWD, and work just as well.

I want something luxury for sure, but i also want something a little faster. I've been looking at the GS450h hybrids 0-60 time which beats any other lexus besides the is-f which i despise... If it's a sedan, it needs to be GS size or larger. If SUV, no larger than the RX...

Can anyone offer any input? I'd like to stick with Lexus for their reliability, but wouldn't mind venturing off into the Infiniti or Acura world if they could hold up over time. This car would need to be a keeper for at least 10 years, so it has to be of good quality.

It also needs to be dark blue, no if's and's or but's about it I also need nav

This is what i have thought about so far:
-07 Lexus Rx350 neptune blue mica with grey interior w/navi (last year the dark blue was offered)
-07 Lexus Rx400h neptune blue mica with gray interior w/navi (again, last year the dark blue was offered)
-07-08 Lexus GS450h neptune blue mica with black interior w/navi

I like the idea of being hybrid, but do you think they'd hold up 10 years down the road?

Anyone else have opinions/suggestions? Thanks!

I have my eye on an 06 Rx400h with 64k miles with nav for $24k. I don't know much about the 400h, is it a good pick? I know that was the first year they came out, are there a lot of bugs?

Please some input

What about a turbo subaru outback limited? That turbo engine is nothing to kick dust at, it'll flippin' fly like a bat out of hell. Plus, you have the AWD, ground clearence, and the limited's are loaded up with a lot of nice toys, like a Macintosh stereo, heated steering wheel, etc. I'd buy one of those myself in a heartbeat if I were in the market for a quisi-suv, which is a category I believe the RX belongs in. If you want a mud pounding SUV, then I'd look at a limited 4runner, so you don't have to deal with the air bag suspension set up of the GX.

Subies are rock solid, Just never big enough for me, I don't know what it is ? My GS doesn't look big next to a Subie, But for me it is like one suit fits and one suit doesn't ???? Do I need a new tailor ?

If your looking at a hybrid and your range is $30-$40k you could probably find a brand new '08 RX400h for around $38,000 with nav!

EDIT: Oh nevermind, I forgot you wanted one in dark blue.

Yeah, definitely needs to be the dark blue, that's something i can't live without =/

The only years the "neptune blue mica" was offered on the Rx hybrid was in 06 or 07.

I've checked autotrader and cars.com and in a 50 mile radius, the only blue one with nav is an 06 with 64k miles for $24k.

Is there any difference between the 06 and 07? Is the nav screen the same for 06 and 07?

What I am seeing is that the '06 navigation is Gen 4 and the '07 and newer is Gen 5 so there may be some differences.

In my opinion if you like the '06 400h you should get it. I haven't heard of any problems, even though it is the first gen of the 400h.

Well i took a test drive of that '06 400h today

I liked it a lot! It's gonna be so hard to get used to the hybrid system though. When you first turn it on, you don't know if you can 'go' or not because there's no sound lol. Then you put it in D, hit the gas pedal and you start rolling, it's the coolest thing.

There were a few "hmm, is this right??" 's.

While driving (i took it out for about 10 mins) i heard this BEEEEP inside the car, the same kind of beep when the skid control is being activated. Just a single beep. Wasn't a seatbelt thing, no lights lit up on the dash, just a random beep.

And the other issues were just cosmetic. Carfax listed an accident police report filed in 07. There's a section on the FR bumper were the paint has cracks where it will eventually chip off. Both the front and rear bumpers had been re-painted along with the FL fender. No biggie there i guess, besides the front bumper cracks it looked like they'd been painted professionally.

And the navigation screen seemed a little.... ehh. Definitely not the same screen in my cousin's rx350. This one seems more "yellow" and you can clearly see the pixels. On the 07 rx350 honestly you can't see the pixels it's like HD.

Do you think i could do a screen "swap"?? I'll post an official question in the Rx forum i guess

I wish there was an 07 400h around me in the dark blue. GRRRR

Oh man, if you can come to Ohio....

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?...leadExists=true

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but as technically advanced, and new technology in general, as the 400h is, are you sure you want to even mess with one that shows up on carfax like that? I wouldn't, personally. I have a feeling, due to all the wires and gizmoos in it, slapping a new strut rod and some bondo to it probably doesn't do the trick quite as well as a normal engined car.

Yeah I'd pass because of the accident report...

Oh my GOD. That's exactly what i want!

The one i'm looking at has that crappy silver interior trim, i was planning on spending an arm and a leg to get 330 wood parts and do a switch, i had no idea the 07's had the wood. And it's even got the gray interior which is what i want too. UGH.

Do you think they could have it shipped!? lol

wait a minute, is that one you posted above the same car as this one stated located in NC??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lexus-RX-40...5fCarsQ5fTrucks

I think that dealer must have locations in both NC and OH. This 400h is in Ohio. I'm sure they would ship it if you ask.

hmmm, that accident is making me wonder =/

i emailed every lexus dealer in MA RI and CT and told them what i was looking for, maybe they can locate one for me? do lexus dealers do that for customers? i feel like in this economy car salesmen should walk miles to make a sale...

Well if the car is at another dealer a Lexus dealer won't get it for you, I tried with my RX. However they will look though auction listings and see if they can find one at auction to buy for you.

Yeahh when i did the searching for my 03 RX the dealers told me they only do swaps on new cars not certified ones =/

I hope one of them has some luck

GET THIS!!!!!!!

I've lowered my standards quite a bit based on the fact that 50 dealers in a 200mile radius around me are not able to locate an 07 in neptune blue with nav...

So, i did another search. I'm afraid to give details, but i think i have found a deal of the freakin lifetime but i wanna check with you guys first.

How does this sound? :

2008 Rx400h
42,000 miles
no accidents, no paint work whatsoever
non-smoker
gray exterior
black interior
dark wood trim
nav
EVERYTHING

for only....

$31,888!!!!!!!

I was planning on spending $24k on an 06 with 60 something thousand miles, when for 8k more i can get an 08!!

So i went to visit the place (like an hours drive through boston, which is awful and hope i never have to do again) to see it.

It's FLAWLESS. Literally FLAWLESS, still has the new car smell. Did a carfax, checked out fine, was used as a "fleet vehicle" ?? I don't know what that means but i assume it's like a lease or for a company car,

anyways, it's at this shady dealer in the hood, but i got to talk to the girl at the desk about the car- i swear looked just like Kim Kardashian... anyways she said that they got it at an auction and there was nothing wrong with it, which i truly believe, test drove it, it's perfect.

Then the "owner" came to talk to us (i took my mom with me since she's the one paying) and the guy was an outright D1CK. Sorry for my language, but he was a jerk. My mom asked him if he could come down in the price, he laughed and said he was insulted, then when we brought up trading my current Rx300 he said it wasn't worth 11k and that the color "indigo ink pearl" was an awful color, basically made my mother and i feel like crap, so we just left.

Now, we don't know what to do. It's a freaking deal, actually the best in the COUNTRY, but i'm afraid my mom's not going to consider based on how the owner treated us.

The other issue is that it's not the perfect color combo i was looking for. I really wanted the 07 neptune blue mica on gray, but it seems they're too rare.

So what do i do?? If we wait, this gray car is going to SELL, he's basically giving it away. But if we don't wait, a blue one might come up.

My parents told me my cap is around $32k. For $32k i might be able to get the 07 in blue that i want, but this guy's giving away this 08 for the same price!

UGH just confused Any input??

Let me give you a little bit of advice on buying used cars, that hopefully you'll carry with you for many years. First: when buying a used car, "private owner" is the way to go. "Fleet Vehicle" probably means "Hertz Rental Car" or the like. I have made the mistake of buying two cars with similiar prior owners, both of which ended up costing me an arm and a leg to repair. One was a 1994 GMC Jimmy SLT with 28k miles, which had body rust bubbling up by 31k miles, broken this, leaking that, burnt out those, etc... always a POS. Turned out, a "fleet vehicle" from a GMC dealership in Kill Devil Hills, NC (outer banks). Two, my previous Lexus (the LS400). Owned as a corporate lease vehicle in Raleigh. It was supposedly "perfectly maintained" by the local dealership, the whole nine yards (and sales pitch to match). Well, there is a reason why i'm on this website. It wasn't a bad car, but it sure as the hell wasn't maintained like a privately owned car, until I bought it. Now, these two examples are of one car that was built by a crap builder, and the other was built by the world's best. Both shared one thing in common, a non-private previous owner. My current two cars, the 4runner and GS, both bought new, with around 55k miles on each, both private ownership cars, no problems whatsoever (beyond normal wear and tear stuff). Moral of the story, lipstick is nice, but if you can't tell if it's on a pig or not, then it's probably on a pig. Ask yourself why this car is at a hole-in-the-wall, shady, used car lot, and not on a real dealer's lot? What do the other dealerships know that made them avoid bidding on it at auction, that you don't. There is a reason, and I bet if you 1) dig deep enough you'll find it, or 2) buy it and realize it.

Number two: Call that ahole back, give him your phone number, tell him when he's willing to sell the car, to call you back, and if you haven't found one already, you might take a second look. I promise you man, nobody is kicking down a slim-shady used car lot's door to spend $31,000 on anything these days.

Another possiblity why he has that car on his lot: A repo. Did you notice a few nice cars amoungst a lot of not so nice cars on his lot? A few cherries in what otherwise is a rotten batch of crap? If so, I'd be willing to bet he bought a chunk of those cars from a local bank/credit union's repo'd inventory. I know this for a fact, from my banking days years ago. When a bank gets a lot of repo'd cars back, they package them up into slices of about 10 or so. They take one good car and place it with 9 other not-so-good cars, and then sell the package to local dealers. I guarantee you kid, you don't want a car that's been repo'd, period. A person "or institution" willing to allow their car to get repo'd, is usually the same kind of person "or institution" that doesn't take very good care of their things. Case in point: A $135,000 MB AMG SL600 coupe we repo'd "my former employer" from a minister in Winston Salem, NC back in 04'. It had 15k miles on it. Tires were bald, oil was original, it wouldn't start, and when the heat and humidity of summer hit it, it stunk like dog barf. It cost the credit union something like $5k to make it "marketable", and they still got their butts handed to them.

Be patient....what you want, will appear. Have you tried Carmax? I know they're a bit higher in price, but they do have a nationwide network. You sound a lot like me, when you want something, you want it NOW. I've learned over the past few years that sometimes, you get lucky when you don't even realize it. When we bought our house in NC, we originally tried to buy a different one. We got into a bidding war. I WANTED that house, but lost the bidding war, and was not happy about it. Two weeks later, the house we did buy, came to the market, and we snatched it up within 24 hours, paying full price on the spot. Fastforward to today. As you know, we had to move from NC to Chicago last February, and we had to sell our house. It sold within about 3 days of hitting the market, for very close to what we were asking for it. YOu know many people in this economy that can say that? Know anyone that can say they made a profit on a house bought at the height of the price spike in late 2006? And the kicker, the house I thought I wanted, went on the market again last October, were it still remains. I've had this urge as well with our current cars. I wanted a Subaru Turbo Outback instead of the 4runner, but here in pothole hell Chicago, where 20 inches of snow is quite possible, I'm glad I got the rough and tough 4runner. Same with the GS. I was getting ready to bid on a 04 GS300 that wasn't in great shape. I just wanted a GS, period. But, my internal warning system said "spend the extra hour to drive to look at the 01' 430". And boy am I glad I did.

So, just sit tight man, it'll happen, it'll appear, and you'll be that much happier knowing what you have, is RIGHT on all accounts. No little internal voices going "i wonder what fleet really meant, and if that's why I got this vibration", or any of that sort of crap that drives you nuts.

nc's totally right. The only thing I may disagree with is that a corporate lease vehicle is so bad. Probably 75% of these cars are leases, and when you buy them 2-3 years old most of them will be old leases. Many employers will pay to maintain their company cars, and for executives who are at a level at which they get a car like that they will have it maintained and treat it as their own. Both my dad's LSes were company leases, the one he has now they gave him when he retired. He always maintained them well.

Look for the service history, but a well maintained (with history) 2-3 year old car is not like buying something 10 years old...you'll be fine with a lease return.

I personally am a little afraid of buying cars from these shady lots. I'm half-heartedly shopping for an 06 or 05 LS430 and I see a lot of nice looking cars on these lots and it concerns me. If you buy this car from him, I would have it independently inspected by a Lexus dealer and have them pull whatever service history they have. Do a carfax. I wouldn't trust the guy further than I could throw him.

You have to take the emotion out of it. You have the $32,000 the guy wants, and there are PLENTY of cars out there you can buy but there are not plenty of buyers. I would do just what he told you to do, call the guy and tell him "Look, you were really rude to us when we met you and to be honest, it makes us not want to do business with you. Here is my number, when you are ready to do a respectful deal with us give me a call and if we haven't already bought another car we'll be happy to consider yours again".

Take your time, you don't need the car *right now*, make sure you find the right one.

Another peice of advice, I would look for a quality car with a good service history before I worry about it being exactly the color I wanted. If color is the most important thing to you...you really should buy new.

I wouldn't expect the world for your trade either, the fact that the economy is bad helps your purchase price and hurts your trade. A car that has all the mods yours has too is MUCH harder to sell. I think expecting them to give you $11,000 for it on trade is a stretch.

Good points on the age of the leasing, SWO.
My LS was 8 years old at the time I bought it, so age certainly played in that regard. The tough thing about those corporate/fleet leases is trying to verify where it came from. I agree, and somewhat disagree on the way a corporate car is cared for. I certainly agree the top floor guys usually get the Lexus's, no argument there. But, if that driver just so happens to not like his job, his company, and knows the car technically isn't his, well, you can see where I'm coming from. I recall as a kid, with my dad going up that corporate ladder, we had a few of those "company cars" too. They weren't abused by any means, but they didn't get the expensive car wash treatment, let it warm up a bit in the morning before flooring it, kind of care. But, you're dad is the flip side to that argument as well. Someone who takes care of the things in his possession and such. Plus, isn't your dad in the real estate game as well? I can't recall. If so, then I know he knows how important a nice, clean, car is, like you do!

My LS was a corporate lease. I was told it was a one owner doctor from Chapel Hill who traded it in for a navigation system. But, shortly after I bought it, somehow the carfax report said corporate lease. I had found a business card in the manual folder from the previous owner, a "president" of some small time financial services company that went bk right around the time the car showed up at the dealership. Considering that was 2004, when the economy was doing pretty well, a financial services firm to go nose-cone must have meant the "services" weren't worth a damn.

Good points guys I did notice this dealer has a TON of luxury cars mostly, i think the worst was an 05ish acura mdx... All of which seem to be priced very low.

When my father came home and heard about what happened, he called the guy himself. Gave him a piece of his mind for speaking to us that way, and got more info for the car.

The guy stated he gets cars at auctions etc, and posts them below everyone else's price, so he gets a lot of viewers. He actually worked for Ira Lexus (the lexus dealer we actually bought my rx300 cpo at) for a few years then opened this business up last year. He clearly has experience...

When i was in the car, i noticed on the top left of the windshield a service sticker stating "next service at 45,xxx miles" from Lexus of Watertown which is also in MA. So i figured it'd been serviced, at least recently.

My dad called our local lexus dealer and gave them the VIN to pull up service records etc. All they could say was that the car was purchased in OHIO, Dec of 07. They told us we'd have to call the lexus dealership in Ohio to get the service history... so we did. Checks out the car only missed one service, an oil change or something similar to that, and the services were performed at Lexus dealers all over the US. I guess it was owned by someone who traveled a lot, and ended up in MA. But it seems whomever owned it did keep up with the maintenance, even if it was all over the country. I mean to put on 42k miles in a year, that's a LOT of driving LOL... Also the car has brand new tires.

All i can say is that the car is flawless, absolutely flawless. Runs like new, interior still has the new car smell, no scratches or stains, outside has only the tiniest of a scratch. I checked for paint work, absolutely none (i can tell..) which means it couldn't have had any accidents which carfax backed up (although who can trust that...).

And now that i think about it, the color isn't that bad. I mean, i'm not in "love" with the color right now, but it will grow on me.

If i went with an '07 with the blue, i'd be paying the same price. Everyone around here is offering 07's for $31k, i can't pass up an 08 with almost perfect service history for the same price, i just can't.

Plus the 08's had a few more upgrades from the 07's, like the chrome handles and blue tinted headlights, which i really like.

I'm stripping my RX of the laser jammers, radar detector, and other "obvious" mods to try to make it look as close to stock as possible. I doubt he will care much... My father and i are driving up there Saturday afternoon to buy it and do the switch. I'm pretty STOKED!

I know at first i made it seem it was too good to be true, but... according to the service history and based on it's condition, it just seems like a deal i can't pass up on

Any last thoughts before we go on Saturday? My dad's pretty good at do-it-yourself/mechanic stuff so he's going to look himself to see if there's anything he might see wrong. Even if there was something wrong, the car still has 3 more years on the factory warranty up to 50k miles... And i think up to 8 years for the hybrid system.

I didn't register the mileage and age of the car. Our 4runner had like 55k miles on it when we bought it in 07, and it's an 05, same story on mileage. A good way to try and judge what kind of driving was done is to check the tires (and compare it to the spare-assuming full size spare). If the tires are original, then it's a safe bet most of those miles are simply highway miles, which is good! If the tires aren't originals, but look to be brand new, then you could probably assume the same thing (highway miles) and either the previous owner put on new ones before giving it back, or the dealership put new ones on to sell it. If you can't tell if the tires are originals, see if they're the same kind as the spare (michelins, etc). Our 4runner had the original tires, and not until about 70k miles did I finally replace them (right before we moved to Chicago). I didn't want to make that drive, in winter, on older tires. Also, if you can see, check the brake pads as well to see how much life is on them. If they look new, then you can probably assume city driving. If they look original with more than half of the pad left, then probalby highway. I'm sure your dad knows the game of buying cars. Just watch the wholesale-retail spread between your car and the new car. If they wip out the "blackbook", insist on seeing it to value not only the trade on your car, but the value of the new car. Match the categories, then start negotiating. I've always had pretty good luck with that tactic. If they have a "special" book, then insist if they're giving you wholesale value on your trade, they sell the new car at wholesale value as well.

Check the build date on the tires. If the date is about the time when the car was new, you know it's original and then compare that to the miles on the car itself.

Good points!!!!

I'll def check tomorrow before we buy it. We're driving down to meet with the guy (my father and myself) to "hopefully" work out a deal.
They talked on the phone some more today, the guy only wants to give us 9k for my Rx300... when honestly i think he should give us more. It only has 82k miles, factory chrome rims, nav, absolutely MINT condition... literally MINT. My dad thinks it's worth more like 11k for a trade.

My dad is willing to offer him 20k + the Rx300 and make it a deal. His sticker is $31,888, so that would make it $31,000, which honestly is an AWESOME deal for an 08 HYBRID RX. It's amazing how a $50k+ car can loose $20k in just one year... It does have 42k miles though.

So I've stripped basically everything out of my car that i added "custom", so it looks pretty much stock now. He'll have no idea i did half the crap i did to it, don't want to think it has a bunch of after-market crap in it. Cleaned it, detailed it inside and out, spent the entire day working on it. To be honest, it looks so good now i don't wanna sell Ahh but it's old. I need some new technology.

I just wish it had the push button start GRRRRR. Oh well... I'm gonna love the bluetooth, back-up camera and AFS...

I'll letcha all know how it works out and possibly post pics Wish us luck!!

Well we bought it!!

The guy walked around my Rx300 and had no idea all the things i did to it. He agreed it was in good condition and took the deal my dad offered him. $20,000 plus the Rx300 which he gave us $11k for. So the final price for the 08 400h was $31,000 which i think is really good.

Only thing is i can't drive it until we get it registered on Tuesday. Since we purchased it out of state, we have to bring it to the police station, then register it at the DMV and everything...

But i LOVE it!

Upon close inspection, i noticed the front bumper had been re-painted. But whoever did it, did an AMAZING job as there are only 2 or 3 little dust marks. The masking was done perfectly along with the color match. and there was no internal damage, must have just been cosmetic to hide the 42k miles of stone chips etc.

Also, i think the front windshield has been replaced, as it only had a few chips (not consistent with 42k miles) and Lexus isn't written on it. Actually.... on the bottom right (if you were looking at it from the front of the car) it's written "united" in black ink. And right above it, it looks like there was a "LEXUS" engraved, but looks like someone sanded and polished it away (but i can still see the "wave" of the lexus letters. What's up with that??? There's also a little 'waviness" in the glass which also makes me think it's after-market. But it honestly looks like "LEXUS" was engraved above the "United" and for some reason removed and polished. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.

And i checked the tires, they look almost brand new, Michelin's. Couldn't see the brakes but they feel fine. Car runs like a charm

Congrats and enjoy!

You just have to make sure that the service history is there, and provided its 2-3 years old theres really not a whole lot someone could have done to it...

My dad was in sales but in the paper industry for about 40 years until he retired a couple years ago. He definately understands the importance of a nice clean well maintained car like I do though, I get that from him. His 98 LS he leased himself for 3 years, and then they bought it for him when he went to management and he drove it for another 3 years until they leased him his LS430, and they gave that to him when he retired.

His company paid for the carwashes too

Congrats on the car! The windshield definately sounds aftermarket, and a repaint of the bumper isn't a big deal. Most Lexus dealers repaint the bumpers before they sell cars CPO. I'd buy a Lexus extended warranty from Toby on here before it hits 50k miles. That color is called Flint Mica, its a GREAT color, you'll come to like it. My dad's LS430 is that color. Black or grey interior?

Thanks guys

But why would someone try to remove the "LEXUS" from the windshield? How can it be after-market if it has the Lexus name. It was definitely "removed", i could see what looked like wet-sand lines and the "waves" of a polisher. Maybe it was a reject?

And the exterior color isn't the flint mica, it's actually called "Smoky Granite Mica". Looks the same as the 04-07 dark gray "flint mica" just this one has a lot of different color flakes in it, in different lighting it looks blue, grey etc... It'll come to like it.

For the interior it's in black. At first i didn't think i'd like it, but now that i've been in it, i really like it! It seems very classy, especially with the walnut trim and silver around the console. The only other colors optional were black dash with gray seats (which would have been my choice if it were an 07) or the gray dash with tan seats, which IMO looks awful. I also think the black will age better vs the gray or tan, and i do take good care of it. Just cleaned & conditioned the leather with leatherique, it looks awesome!

Whoever owned this car took good care of it I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them up

Could have been a reject...weird.

Smokey Granite Mica is nice too...

I'm a big fan of black interiors. Mine is black, nothing ages as well as a black interior...

Congratulations on your purchase!

I felt the same way about the black interior, my ES had a grey interior which I liked very much but my RX has black interior, at first I didn't know if I would like it but now I've come to love it, much better than the grey.

Yeah, i am definitely getting used to the color combo

I figured out how to get the bluetooth connected which is SO cool... and the AFS is freaking awesome, it even raises and lowers when you accelerate and brake so you don't blind people.

Only issue is that the drivers side door sill "LEXUS" doesn't light up like the others... At least it's under warranty. Not a big deal.

And the POWER! UMPH! So much better than my Rx300. I just looked it up, the 08 400h actually has better acceleration than the 010 450h

You're never gonna believe this! lol

So when we traded in my old Rx300, they gave us 11k for the trade, and this was last Saturday, exactly a week ago.

I just checked on autotrader today searching 2003 Rx300's, and i found MINE! being sold by the SAME DEALER we traded it into, and he's asking $16k!!

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u...;standard=false

Left the bumper guard on, didn't touch a thing. He gave us $11k and is asking $16k. Unbelievable... Just thought it was funny lol...

Thats not unbelievable. He lists it for $16k he might sell it for $13k-14k. He's got to make a profit on it, $2,000-$3,000 profit is pretty reasonable. He probably paid $200 to detail it, changed the oil and rotated the tires, by the time he pays his costs of sale when he sells it and the insurance to have it on the lot...thats not much profit at all.

I think he must of made out well on the car he sold you to be able to give you what he did for your trade. I agree that is not much profit at all SW.

I think it is funny when people are amazed about the whole car dealer thing. If you would truley like to be amazed take your new car back and see what he will give you for it on a trade. Bet it will be much less then what you just paid for it. It's the same thing just reversed.

Nice car and good luck with it.

I highly doubt he did a single thing to it. We just changed the oil in April, and i've kept it prestine, and washed it the day before we traded it in. And the chrome set of tires/rims on it we just put on the first of May (we still have the silver set in our garage). That car was perfect inside and out

Looking at the pictures, i can see it's in the same condition i gave it to him in.

It's just funny to see him turning around and selling it for $6k more than he gave us, on his OWN lot. He told us he was going to send it to auction and that they would only give HIM 11k for it. He made it "seem" like he wasn't going to gain ANYTHING on it...

What a slick salesman... lol

Ooooh...this is going to be a patented SW03ES reality check moment folks. Set your DVRs.

Even if he did nothing he's still not making a steal for the reasons I just told you. Doing business has costs...

Who cares, you got a good deal, why begrudge him the ability to make some profit? After all, thats what businesses are in business to do...make profit. Had you wanted to go to the hassle you could have sold the car yourself for more than he gave you on trade. What do you think would be a fair profit for him to make? Do you have any idea the costs associated with running a car dealership? Or any business? Or the costs associated with doing anything at all? No, you don't.

Not everybody gets two $45,000 vehicles handed to them before the age of 20. Many people...most people...work very hard their entire lives and never experience owning a luxury car...something that you've experienced and now you're on your second one! Mortgage payments need to be made...kids need braces and need to go to college. Count your blessings my friend. Making a livings not easy, which you'll figure out at some point.

I'm not trying to be mean, but its the truth. If you're going to make comments about someone else and the manner in which they make a living as if you have some concept of what a fair profit is when you absolutely do not, I'm going to call it like I see it.

I agree with you Steve whole heartedly. I work closely with the upper management at my company (a small manufacturing shop) so I know the costs involved in running a business. Put yourself in the position of the car dealer management, if you were to sell the car yourself you'd try to get the most you could for it... so are they.

I consider myself extremely blessed to be offered the job that I have and make the income that can pay for my cars.

Let me ask you cduluk... do you work? Do you have an income? Or do your parents just buy you these cars with nothing expected in return? If the latter is true then I would consider myself very lucky. I'd give everything to not have to work, be able to focus all my time on my education, and have the car I drive now paid for me.

I as well as Steve don't try to be insulting or mean, I'm just trying to make a point. If you ran the dealer you'd do the same thing, so don't blame her/him for trying to make an honest living.

We have been over all of this with cduluk before in some of his other post. Nothing insulting or mean at all with what you are SW have said. The other post that I am reffering to was about insurance fraud that cduluk and his parents seemed to consider acceptable. In case anyone needs a recap of that... us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53613&st=75

cduluk- I know you are 20 you and you are still in school. I am happy that your parents can afford to buy you nice things. When my son is 20 I am sure that I will buy him nice things too. However I would not pay for one thing for him if I though that he would turn out with the values you have. I have worked extremely hard to be successful as most people have. I am not mad that I have had to work hard. I am happy, it has given me something to be proud of. I have a nice home, great family, nice cars, nice motorcycle...money in savings, and retirement building. My parents helped me with my school and cars and car insurance, I was not homeless and I did not come up with out. But what my parents taught me that I am not sure yours have was to work and the value of money. I worked after school, summers, every chance that I got. I saved my own money that I earned and I learned to pay for things myself. There is something about going out and buying things on your own. When I was 20 I did not want my parents to pay for my things. I am not bitter because of this I am a better person. Even though you are 20 life to this point should have taught you a few things. You went on and on about how good a deal it was on this Lexus that you were getting. Then the salesman even met your number on your trade for you old car. What else could he of done for you? You said that it was a great deal. So what magic number would be acceptable for you, what should he be selling the car for? Maybe he should just sell it for exactly what he gave you for it on trade?

See where we are all coming from. He can't he has to make money too. He has to pay the girl to answer the phones, pay for health insurance, his bills...and guess what he may have a little spoiled brat at home that he wants to have nice things too. You just don't understand because you have not been in a position that you have to "pay" for anything.

Man, I totally missed that...what a trip.

After I posted my response in here my wife and I went out for dinner and were talking about this very subject. I had nice things when I was a kid, got a nice car (Mom's hand-me-down, but nice), didn't HAVE to work. I started my first business at 17 and operated that and another business until I sold both a few years later and started doing what I'm doing now, but I didn't do that out of neccessity. I went to a very affluent high school and had many friends that were as fortunate as me without the same ambition or drive.

Now that I am older and I look at where I am in my life and where they are...I start to see some issues with how we were all raised. These people are deadbeats...all of them its quite remarkable. Many of them still live at home and work very sporadic jobs...have little direction and I am married, have a successful business, own a home, invest...its an incredible difference. What was the difference? I was given nice things, but I was always surrounded by a strong work ethic and a very strong sense of responsibility and they were surrounded by a sense of entitlement.

I really think that parents that raise kids this way are really doing them a huge disservice. For one, the sort of lifestyle this kid leads is simply not one that is going to be sustainable when and if he finally does move forward and start to stand on his own two feet. Most 20 year olds can't afford to drive $45,000 cars and order $800 bull bars for them on a whim from England. It creates a generation of people that are just indictrinated to live outside of their means. Life is tough my friend, trust me. You get out there on your own and try to live this way and tell me its not. I've been there...I know.

I think it also robs the child from the sense of achieving something like owning a car like that. Like I said, most people work their entire lives to be able to afford to drive a car like that, and thats something that he's been given twice right out of the gate. When you're living like that, driving around in a handout Lexus with daddy's gold AMEX in your pocket...what is there left to achieve?

I actually feel kind of sorry for him...

Jeesh... all i was saying was that i was surprised to see it at the same dealer when he said it was going to auction...etc.

If i found it in another state with another dealer for $16k, i'd understand that more. But i do understand dealers have expenses etc, i've just never heard of this happening before, that's why i mentioned it.

iye... Didn't think this would get so "personal". There is no need for anyone to feel "sorry" for me, i find that insulting...

You've never heard of this happening before?!? How do you think dealers make money? Where do you think used cars on lots come from? Even if he sold it at auction he would sell it for more than he paid you for it...otherwise he wouldn't have bought it from you. Why do you think trade in value is less than retail or private party value? to allow for a dealer to make a profit. Dealers don't buy cars for fun...they buy cars to make a profit with. You say you understand...but obviously you don't. Don't be afraid to admit that you don't understand something...people will be more apt to help you. Its your attitude that you know everything that got you this response...as was the fact that you didn't understand why insurance fraud was wrong in the other thread.

You shouldn't find it insulting at all, someone can't feel sorry for you unless they care about you at least in some way. Life's tough...its been easy for you in the past but should you ever be required to get out and fend for yourself its going to teach you a bunch of lessons real fast, trust me. Now, I don't know you so I don't know if you will ever need to fend for yourself, but you are missing out on actually achieving buying these things on your own...

I know to make a profit you need to sell for more than you buy, i was just surprised to see it at the same dealer- that's all... lol.

I guess it was just weird to see my car on autotrader too. Thought if it went to auction (like he told us it would) it'd end up in Afghanistan or something...

It was just the initial "shock" seeing it, that caused me to post...

CD, I understand how you felt when you saw your car on autotrader. You had a personal connection to that car, with all of the upgrades and tweaks you did to it. I also understand that initial "you s.o.b, you ripped me off" feeling when you see the price they're asking. You go through so much haggeling and bickering when negotiating a price, and they tell you all sorts of things "I'll have to ship it to auction, I'll have to do this, do that, ect", only to see they didn't do any of it. I know how you're feeling. It doesn't go away either as you get older. That first initial feeling of thinking you got a bad deal, or seeing what you could have gotten for it. But, what you "could" have gotten for it, and what you "were offered", is the difference between your willingness to go through the hassle of selling it yourself, or switching it out for something else on the spot. One has an investment value, one has a conveinence value (or cost). Those guys are on the "investment" side of the equation, and you're on the convienence side.

The same initial feeling hit me too when I traded my 07' Mazda 3GT for my current GS. All the haggling, which ended with me taking my check off the table, getting into the Mazda and headed home, only to be called on my cell phone "which I gave to them early in the negotiatoins for this exact reason" to come back and pick up my new car. They gave me payoff, which was about $13k. They gave me the whole auction thing too, which I said "if you can't sell this car on your lot, then how are you going to sell all of these others?". The next day, on auto trader, my Mazda, for $16,900. It sold within 2 days, for $300 over the asking price due to a bidding war. I learned this a few weeks after the transaction while picking up my Illinois tags from the dealership. Told the guy "wow, that's great man!", and I meant it too. Although he gave me the whole song and dance routine, at the end of the day, he too has to grab his things and go home to his wife and kids. And I for one, take a lot more pride in knowing that I played a part in those smiles around his kitchen table when he tells his family that he made a sale, just so long as the following is true, which was true for me....

The question that you must answer, regarding your new set of wheels, is are you happy with what you came out of pocket for (cash)? That's the question, and the TRUE cost of buying a depreciating asset, like a car. The "value" of a car falls every day, with every mile. So being upset about the price of your old car, isn't the issue. It's the price of your new sweet honey chasin' ride. Once you've found comfort in that, then the rest is just business. The whole depreciating asset aspect of cars, is exactly why I will only buy a car if I can get 6 year financing for it. Because the gap between the value of the car vs. the balance on the loan, is always smaller the further down the road you are. Give me 100% for 6 years anyday "on a used, already hit by initial depreciation" car.

Not to defend you completely against my fellow amigos on here, as they're right about many things that you'll probably face in life. But, one of the biggest suprises I've found over the course of my first year of being a dad, is the joy I get from buying things for my son. It's a selfish sense of joy, but one of accomplishment that I feel for myself, a sense of pride to be able to do so. The balance however, and this is where I completely agree with SWO, is where I set the bar for my child to reach when it comes time for him to step into the shoes of self sustainer/provider. Just remember, one day the weight of that ability to walk into a dealership and buy an expensive, adult, luxury car will be upon you too. So, see beyond the things, and seek the oportunities that your blessings grant you. I, like SWO, grew up in an affluent life style as well. I grew up in the nicest areas of Miami, Birmingham, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, and Indiana. I, like SWO, had many friends in that environment too. And, just like SWO, can honestly say that most of them haven't turned out to do a damn thing worthwhile with their lives. That's because, as we grew up, they focused on "things", not "methods to things". Life only "invites" you to come out and play once, maybe twice if you're lucky "I was". If you're not prepared to answer that invitation, then life just gives you the leftovers.

So, I say enjoy that fine skirt chaser ride amigo! But, keep your eye on the ball and keep that nagging voice in your head that one day you'll have the opportunity to do for you and your family, as your parents have done for you. Keep that focus, and "things" will simply be as they are meant to be, "things". Allow your "things" to define you though, and you too will face the real probability of becoming like those SWO is talking about. A person who missed the invitation because he/she was too busy trying to angle someone else for that next big "thing".

PS: I haven't read the insurance fraud thread, but I think I get the point judging from the others' comments. Rule #1: Play by the rules, because Karma is a mofo, and will ALWAYS get even. Just ask Wall Street. I'd rather work myself to the bone for $100, knowing nobody can ever take it from me, than wiggle my way to $1,000 that will require me to always look over my shoulder for that nasty little monster coming to collect, called Karma.

You'd be wise to read this instead of getting insulted by it...thats some pretty good advice above.

Good points guys

Hey enjoy your ride. I am not trying to bust your balls. We all are just sharing our points of view. I am sure that you are a good kid and I bet you will do great later in life. SW and I have gotten in to it a time or two about things on here and I don't agree with everything that he says on here but I still have learned quite a bit by reading his post. Sometimes you can learn the most from people you disagree with.

What LEXI means is that he has always been wrong, and I have always been right.

Man, what is that smell?