Does anyone have the NEW codes for the ver. 06.1 DVD to override the nav system so that a passenger can input a destination while traveling.
The old codes (Menu, up, down, up, down) do not work with DVD ver. 06.1.

This is one of the most asked questions for the new Denso 6.1 software. Lexus ripped that ability from us in the new verson and there are a couple great hackers that are working on this; however, from every thing I have found that last two months is that there is no soft key crack.

To date the only way some people have accomplished this with version 6.1 is to make a new DVD Disk by using all the files from the 6.1 disk and to replace one startup file from version 5. I have yet to get my hands on a version 5 disk as I don't want to pay $300 for an old version to make a new DVD.

I have stopped at an electronics car shop like Car Toys and they can trick the NAV with a hard wire solution so the Nav thinks you are no moving; however, I don't like that idea for the GPS issues and milage tracking for maintenance issues.

As most of the new Denso 6.1 customers of Lexus, we are not very happy that Lexus feels that we are too stupid to be safe and have an override so they just take it away from us. If I find a fix it will be posted on the pinned file on page one of the IS250 350 300 users group. In the mean time, when you want to find the nearest rest stop, pull off the free way and use the touch screen and they start driving again.

Below are the new voice commands if you need them:

NAVIGATION
Change Screen map, help, cancel
Change Map Scale zoom in, zoom out
Change Right Map Scale right map zoom in, right map zoom out
Change Map Direction north up
heading up
map direction
Change Right Map Direction right map north up
right map heading up
right map direction
Change Guidance Mode dual map, dual map mode
single map, single map mode
arrow guidance
turn list guidance, turn by turn guidance
freeway guidance
intersection guidance
compass mode
Reg Marked Point mark this point, mark
Check Route entire route map, route overview
current position, current location
next destination map
first destination map
second destination map
third destination map
fourth destination map
fifth destination map
final destination map
Change Route quick 1, quick
quick 2
short
route, short route
detour
detour entire route
Delete Destination delete next destination
delete final destination
delete all destinations
Guidance set destination
suspend guidance, stop guidance
resume guidance, start guidance
repeat, repeat guidance, repeat voice
louder
softer

Points of Interest (POI)
General nearest (POI)
Restaurant restaurant, I'm hungry
american restaurant, american food
chinese restaurant, chinese food
continental restaurant, continental food
fast food restaurant
french restaurant, french food
italian restaurant, italian food
japanese restaurant, japanese food
mexican restaurant, mexican food
seafood restaurant, seafood
thai restaurant
other restaurant, other food
Shopping convenience store
department store
grocery store
home and garden
pharmacy
shopping mall, shopping
speciality food store
other retail stores
Automotive auto club, triple A
car wash
gas station, gas
lexus dealership
parking, parking lot, parking garage
service and maintenance, auto service
rental car, rental car agency
toyota dealership
other automotive stores
Travel airport
bus station
campground
commuter rail station
ferry terminal
hotel
rest area, rest stop
train station
Recreation amusement park
botanical garden, zoo
casino
cinema
golf course, golf
historical monuments
horse racing
marina
museum
national and state parks
ski resort, skiing
speedway
sports complex, stadium
theater, performing arts
tourist attraction
tourist information
video rental
winery
Community city center
convention center, exhibition center
court house
fire station
government offices, civic center
higher education, university, college
hospital
library
parks
police station
post office
school
Banking ATM
bank
other financial services
Other beauty and barber shops
coffee house
dry cleaning
health and fitness club
ice cream parlor
other business facilities
Icon Off hide all icons

Destination
Setting Route set destination
show list
address
change state
change city
change street
change candidate
change house number
home, go home
Route to Previous Point previous point start, go to start point
previous destination
Route to Quick Access quick access number 1 …
quick access number 5
"Value While Displayed" enter destination
add to destination
replace destination
cancel
yes
no

Audio
Select Audio Mode radio
AM, AM radio
FM, FM radio
FM1
FM2
CD
CD changer
SAT
Audio On/Off audio on
audio off
Radio Operation seek up
seek down
Disc Operation track up, next track
track down, previous track
disc up, next disc
disc down, previous disc

Climate
Auto AC On/Off automatic air conditioning on
automatic air conditioning off
Temperature Raise/Lower raise temperature, warmer
lower temperature, cooler
Adjust Temperature 65 degrees …
85 degrees

Help
Help Commands help, command help, command list

Phone
Calling dial by number
dial by name
correction
yes
no
delete
next candidate
cancel

I agree that the lockout is beyond annoying, but you can't fault anyone for protecting themselves from liability in a world as sue happy as this one...

Thanks for the comments on this.

I have seen the codes for the 6.1 disk on posted on another board for the Tacoma truck, but it mentioned a "joystick" and I don't know how that might translate to a touch screen.

Meanwhile, like many, my passenger (wife) is really annoyed that she cannot look up restaurant destinations while on an interstate so we know what exit to take. Arguably it is more dangerous to pull over on the shoulder than for a passenger to operate the system. Other manufactures (as well as Hertz) seem to do ok and not incurr undue liability.

I went to Car Toys in Portland, OR this weekend and they know how to accomplish this with just a quick wire change on the ground; however, due to liability, they will not do it for me.

As a new Lexus owner (but long-time toyota owner) I find the Nav "Lock Out" so annoying that I am considering selling the damn thing for an Acura. I am assuming that Lexus knows how badly they have misread their customers on this and that a software update is in the works (does anyone know if that is so?). I simply cannot keep a car that treats me like this! My wife is also irritated that she is not considered capable of handling the navigation while I drive.

As for getting to the initial diagnostics screen, push and hold the info button and turn the parking lights on and off 3 times. Sounds crazy, but that works. I am not aware of any tricks beyond that point, but there is an interesting missing button on one of the screens.

Curious as to what "quick wire change on the ground" means.

I sold my Honda Accord 2003 with NAV and it did not lockout the use while driving. The other very strange thing I notice about the Lexus NAV is the very poor voice command structure and it's very sensitive recognition. Depending on ambient noise the NAV is not able to understand voice commands.

The Honda was able to determine your voice with about 99% accuracy and all the commands were very so easy you did not need a manual. Below is just a simple example.

Find nearest gas station ... all listings are displayed with a scroll list with the cloeset to your current position. (Lexus will show a list if you stop the car)

Find nearest gas station, hospital, mexican resturant, display current position, Menu, Information, etc.

For the most part, any thing you can think of it can display or find with only a few limitations and any person in the vehicle can use their voice without any learning.

It would seem Lexus would learn from just looking at Honda and Acura to make the NAV easy and able to operate while moving. I guess Lexus is way behind the times. In spite of the Nav lockout and poor use of voice commands, I still love the car.

Oh well, it is what it is! Good luck ....

Hi Everyone -- I am a brand new Lexus ES 350 owner. I bought the car for the looks, performance, comfort, and Nav System. The Nav System was demonstrated pre-sale with enough "confusion" so it was not apparent that the system does virtually nothing unless the car is stopped. I am so annoyed I too am ready to sell the car or at a minimum request a rebate for the full purchase price of the Nav System from the dealership.

HOWEVER, I would MUCH prefer a solution so that I can (as a passenger) use the full set of Nav functions including Local POI Lists and Destination spec while driving.

Just think of normal day to day activity. Get in car, start and drive onto local community road. OK, where do we want to go. Oh, right, the kid's new home. Let's see, I have that registered as a Memory Point. and then I realize I can do no more. AAARRRGGGGHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can ANYone help?

Thanks
Ron

I've driven this car for 4 years with this nav system. Is it annoying that you can't type destinations in when driving? Yes. Does it make the system unusable? Not at all, you just have to plan ahead. Just put your top destinations in the presets, and pull over for the rest.

Hi Steve -- I find it hard to believe you find the system usable at ALL in a practical everyday environment. Try to find a restaurant (via a list of local POI for example) while driving in an unfamiliar area at 70 mph on a divided highway - To save you the trouble -- It can't be done. AND, pulling over to a shoulder on a major highway is probably more lethal than having the driver (let alone a front passenger - me) hit a few buttons if they worked properly (AND the way it was "implied" it would work in the pre-sale demonstrations we received). As for a destination input - I find it hard to believe that half a dozen pre-set destinations (quick access) is sufficient to deal with even a significant FRACTION of the destinations you would commonly try to access. It CERTAINLY dos not do the job for us. Like I said, the system as presently configured is a laughing stock (literally the case when I tried to do the retaurant thing with some friends in my new car), an embarrassment, and has an unbelievable number of signifi-CANTS. It is INDEED COMPLETELY UNusable, useless, and I feel I have been "taken" for $2400.00.

Ron

Like I told you before I've used this system for 4 years and 80k miles, in fact I have it on two cars. When I want to find a restaurant or something in the POIs...I just pull over. Too many menus to navigate when driving anyways. Any highway you'd be driving on at 70MPH has safe shoulders.

Or, just plan ahead. If I know I'm going to want a restaurant and I'm going to be driving on the highway, I turn the restaurant POIs on and my passenger can scan for them on the display, highlight them and get the info.

You may feel that way, but I think you're being a little over dramatic. I use the nav several times a day, every day and while the lockouts are annoying, they certainly don't make the system unusable. Also remember that the Lexus system is constantly ranked at or near the top when OEM systems are reviewed. Everyone who has ridden in my car has wanted the system for themselves, and several of my colleagues have purchased Toyota and Lexus cars simply to get the same system I have.

As for being duped, didn't you drive the car and test out the system before you bought it?

If it really bothers you that much, install one of the several kits or switches to work around it. Getting a refund isn't going to happen for you, nobody hides the fact that the system locks out functions when the car is in motion, and had you actually taken the time to learn about the car before you bought it you'd know that.

Hi Steve -- I don't know who you think you're talking to, but let me assure you:

1. I drove the car prior to purchase.
2. The Nav system was demonstrated, but the stoppage requirements were NOT obvious to either of us
3. I had told the Sales Agent how excited I was about using it (as I described above) and asked for an
advanced copy of the Manual. I looked at some of the manual parts online, but I did not find ANY
mention of the requirement to be stopped in the manual. And in fact I still haven't.
4. I have looked online for a "switch" which will solve the problem and have asked the dealership for
assistance on this. Thus far, the dealership has not responded and the devices I have read about have
failed and have been returned by the buyers. If you know of a switch that does in fact work, kindly
share with me how I can purchase one. My appraisal of the car and Lexus will dramatically improve if
the Nav System can be made to work.

LOL Did you ever think to try and program destinations when driving? Ever think to just do a little research about the car, read a review? Lexus isn't the only manufacturer that blocks out navigation programming functions when the car is in motion, most of them do as a matter of fact.

Again...just stop the car to program destinations! Annoying sure, but I can only think of one carmaker who'se cars you would be able to program when driving...Acura. Everybody else blocks out programming when driving.

As for a switch, just do a search on here and on other Lexus forums. There are ways to install a switch, but it will void all kinds of warranties. I wouldn't do it, I would and do just pull over to program. The system works extremely well.

Steve --

PS to my prior note --

I did not mean to suggest that ANYone intentionally mislead me on the Nav System. It was an unfortunate
set of circumstances that simply did not make it obvious that the car had to be stopped for many functions to work.

In addition, while I have not heard back from the dealership, that does not mean that they won't respond. They HAVE called and we have played "Phone-Tag" thus far. So I do not know what alternatives they may offer. BUT, I have been told that that is the way it is SUPPOSED to work.

Cheers,
Ron

Steve -- I was told that there were "devices" that can be installed to fix the problem and that they would NOT void any warranties. I specifically asked that very question. That was not a technical individual, however, so it is possible that confusion further reigns.

As I indicated, I HAVE looked for said devices online doing all kinds of searches with Google, Yahoo, and Mozilla to name a few. That is how I know at least some of the offered devices do not work properly. If you are able to recommend a specific vendor of a device that is "proven to work" and does not void warranties, I will be most appreciative if you are willing to share that invaluable knowledge......

Thanks,
Ron

Whew!!

OK guys, get a couple of smooth jazz CDs and take a ride out to the country in your new, gorgeous, wonderful, Lexus.

Sooner or later someone will figure out a decent workaround for those of us who want it.

'Til then enjoy the nice ride.

Steve - And finally -- Yes I did a fair amount of research prior to purchase - I dare say more than most people do..... None talked about the failures of the Navigation System

Ron

Ah okay, I misunderstood you then.

Before you go trying to find all these things, try and live with it for a little while. Really, its not that big a deal. You get used to planning out your destinations ahead of time, if you're going to multiple destinations for instance you can program up to 5 in succession so the system can take you there one at a time. Like I said before you can set it so it displays a POI icon for gas stations or restaurants or whatever, and you can zoom in and out and pan on the screen to check out stuff around you without stopping. You can also detour around traffic when you're moving too.

It may seem really obnoxious now, but its not as big a deal as it appears to you.

As far as research, what you are discussing isn't a failure of the navigation system, the system is designed to keep drivers from programming it while the car is in motion as almost ALL OEM systems are. They're protecting themselves from liability and preparing for when they are required to do this by the DOT. There are literally HUNDREDS of threads here and on other Lexus boards about the fact that the navigation system does this, as there are on all the boards for all the other manufacturers who'se systems operate the same way.

This is your original complaint:



Your problem is that you drive off before you figure out where you want to go. Most people have a destination in mind before they get out on the road. Here's how you can be happy with your navigation system:

Get in car and start. OK, where do we want to go? Oh right, the kid's new home. Let's see, I have that registered as a Memory Point. Select the memory point and set the destination, THEN drive onto the local community road.

Just because the system doesn't operate EXACTLY how you would like, doesn't mean its a failure. 99% of people don't drive off without a destination in mind. How do you know what direction to head if you haven't decided where you're going yet?!?

Oh Steve -- Just when I thought maybe you were "getting it"...... Oh well. Just a morsel for thought. I live in a community wherein I drive for about 0.4 of a mile before I make any turns in a specific destination direction. Get it ????

AND -- Clicking on every restaurant icon on the screen trying to find the "right one" sure beats scrolling thru a nice alphabetized list now doesn't it ?? And if there are enough Icons (frequently), it's virtually impossible to "click" on them all

It may well be the way it is and will be, but it is NOT they way most people intuitively EXPECT it to be as evidenced by EVERYONE who has seen the failed demo in my car, and you yourself find it "annoying" (per Am Heritage Dictionary "a source of troublesome repeated acts" - In this case Nav System failure to perform as expected)

Bye ......
Ron

No, I don't get it, why would you drive away from your house and THEN decide where you are going? That makes zero sense whether you have to turn in any one direction or not. And even if thats how you traditionally operate, why is it impossible for you to stop doing that? Why is it the end of the world for you to sit in your driveway for a second and decide where you want to go before you get underway?!?

As for the restaurants, did I ever say it was as convienient as scrolling through a list? No, I said it is a way to look for a restaurant without having to stop. Its not possible to set the system up where you can scroll through an alphabetized list of POIs while driving without voiding the warranty. You shouldnt be doing that while driving anyways. You can either whine and cry, or you can try and adapt what you want to do with what the system is capable of doing. I'd like my cell phone to make me waffles and do my taxes too, but it doesn't do that so I just make my own waffles.

Yes the lockout is annoying, but its not that big a deal, you get used to planning ahead and the benefits of having the system far outweigh the minor annoyance of having to stop to type in a destination. My question is, what do you expect anybody to do for you? You strike me as being completely unwilling to learn to adapt to the way the system works, and this system works exactly like EVERY other OEM navigation system except the one from Acura. Mercedes, BMW, Infiniti, all of them lock out destination and POI functions when moving. The DOT will absolutely make this lockout mandatory, sooner rather than later as cars become more advanced. Plenty of things in life are annoying, I wish my DVR would record more than 2 shows at once, but its not designed to do that so I make do.

Just because you failed to do the required research and testing prior to purchasing a car with a nav system doesn't mean it failed. You simply want it to do something that its specifically designed not to do for safety reasons. You can either choose to continue to be upset about this, or you can take the suggestions I've given you to get used to what the system will not let you do at speed. I wish it allowed you to do this stuff when driving too, but it doesn't and nor does anybody else's nav system so there's no use in being angry about it.

If you're going to be mad about something, be mad we live in such a litigious society that companies have to make their products less useful to protect themselves from enormous liability. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you were the first person to file a class action suit against Toyota if you ran over a kid in a crosswalk while looking for the closest Denny's on the nav screen while you decide where you want to go after you've already been on the road for 20 minutes. Do you not see how crazy that sounds?

Again, just pull the damn car over and input your destination! Keep yourself and those you share the road with safe and stop aggrivating yourself about this.

Check out this review of the Lexus nav system by PCMag

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2926,00.asp

A quote:



A user review of the Lexus system vs the BMW system:

http://gpsinformation.net/lexusbmw.htm



Just look around. You'll find mention of the lockout in some articles and reviews, but for the most part you'll realize it doesn't really bother people.

Steve --

Button-Up, your ignorance is showing ............

HAHAHAHAHA! MY ignorance is showing? Oh well I guess all of us who have and are able to use the system and all the reviews that praise it as being one of if not the best OEM system out there must just be ignorant. You of course are absolutely correct, the system is a failure because you can't leave your house and THEN decide where you're going after you're already on the way without stopping to enter a destination and can't scroll through lists while careening down the highway at 80MPH. Of course, it makes no sense why you should plan a destination before you leave home or pull over to find a POI to keep yourself and everybody else on the road safe. But I'M ignorant, what a laugh. You're exactly the reason why these lockouts exist.

I don't think there's anything I or anybody else can do for you, you'll just have to stay miserable. Enjoy.

Steve --

It may perhaps be difficult for you to believe, but I am not one who enjoys nor seeks conflict. I wish the prior counter-productive posts had not occurred and I apologize for my contribution thereto.

Ron

I appreciate that.

I understand your frustration. You spent a lot of money on the car, if you learn to adapt to the limitations of these driver lockouts however (which as I said all but one manufacturer has) you will be happy with the system.

This nav system is terrible. My son was going to buy a Lexus until he realized how pitiful it is. He bought the Acura instead. DO NOT BUY a Lexus with a nav system. The little $500 Garmin is a much better solution.

Again, I've had mine for 4 years, I've had the updated system in the Prius for 3, totally happy. The only plus for the Acura is that they don't lockout functions when moving, FOR NOW. When the DOT requires manufacturers to do that they"ll have to if they want to sell cars in the US. That day is coming very soon.

For a new member, you certainly are starting out on the wrong foot!!

For your information, and your son's, the Lexus Navigation System is considered by auto experts to be the top rated units....bar none!

Example: PC Magazine

Total screen blackout while driving is a bit too much lockout. Data entry or any user interaction lockout is understandable, but screen with map and car's position, direction of motion etc., should continue to display. Quick glance on where your car is, upcoming road curve and turn direction etc., are very useful. My ES350 is non-nav, I use Garmin nuvi and glance on the map every now and then, when at stop light, etc.

Um, if the screen with map and car's position is not functioning for you, there is something wrong with your system. The map screen should always be visible unless you've set it to revert to the radio screen or something as default.

the thing about after market navs are that....they are ugly. period.

now about the nav system. It is rated the most intuitive and best interface, just solely on the nav. I agree the lock out feature is horrible, but its nothing compared to having an ugly after market nav stick out at you.

i think what lexus should do is this. THey already have a sensor in the passenger seat for the seatbelt light. They should override the nav when there is a passenger there, and then lockout everything when there is only a driver, or people in the back. thats a good compromise.

Hi Rx330driver --

I could not agree MORE with you. In fact I have chatted about the very SAME idea with friends. I hope the right people are listening.... Thanks........

PS to "All" --

I have responses from two local non-Lexus dealerships which confirm that they have "Full Navigation System Function" while the car is in motion.

I have read indications here suggesting that only one other manufacturer provides "Full Function Navigation while in motion".

Does anyone have any refutations or confirmations ??

Thanks

They have full navigation function through voice commands, not through the tactile interface. You have full function through voice commands too.

Can we please kill this thread? I mean come on, you bought a car that does not have the functionality that you thought it had. So the way I see it is that you have a few options;

1. Sell your car and apply the money toward the purchase of a vehicle that does offer the functionality that you are looking for.

2. See if there is an aftermarket solution that would be acceptable to you.

3. Deal with what you have purchased.

All this discussion of pulling off to the side of the road, or entering a destination before leaving your home, or doing whatever you need to do to enter a destination into the system is getting quite old.

Bottom line is that when the car is moving you are locked out of using the tactile portions of the Nav system, let's move on now.

my350

While I agree with you, You don't have to read threads that you aren't interested in reading...

Interesting thread. Only two people have posted that the system is fine and one of them started out by saying that the system was "beyond annoying." Every other poster says he does not like the sytem as is. Such a majority indicates that there is a problem.

Rontenfour has expressed dissatisfaction with his navigation system and the primary thrust of SW03ES is that he should adapt to the system. That has been the exact attitude of General Motors in the past and is one of the reasons I do not do business with them any more. IT IS NOT UP TO THE CUSTOMER TO ADAPT TO THE PRODUCT. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANUFACTURER TO ENSURE THE PRODUCT MEETS THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF THE CUSTOMER! The dustbin of history is replete with failed companies that thought otherwise.

Also Rontenfour's dissatisfaction is NOT incorrect and it cannot be. Indeed no one's dissatisfaction with anything can be wrong or disputed. It is entirely personal, so let it be. Rontenfour and nearly everyone else on this forum do not like the crippling of the nav system underway.

Add me to the list.

I have owned an ES350 for about two weeks and 2,200 miles now. I researched this car extensively before purchasing. I read the ENTIRE IS?50 OWNER"S AND NAVIGATION MANUALs online before buying (I did not find them for the ES350 and figured the nav system would be the same which turned out to be correct). NOT ONE WORD in the manual said anything about the system working any differently underway than at rest. My paper manuals which I have now read in their entirety are the same. If Lexus' intent is to be open and honest about this, why is this information missing? That is an important question.

Like Rontenfour, my salesman demonstrated the nav system for me... in the showroom. Our drive was to test the way the car drove and he did not offer to demonstrate the nav system further aside from letting it show us where we were. At no time whatsoever was any statement made PRIOR to purchase or in the explanation of the systems prior to drive away that the nav system would be different underway than at rest, much less that maybe 80% of its functions would unavailable. Why do you suppose he never mentioned any of this when his knowledge of everything else appeared encyclopedic? I suspect he too understood the unpopularity of Lexus' decision.

I personally was very happy with my Garmin that I moved from car to car. It asked me once if I agreed that it was dangerous to program it underway and shut the heck up and let me do what I wanted thereafter. I bought the Lexus nav system primarily because it was the only way to get the backup camera, without which I thought I eventually would back over or into something, maybe an elephant the rear of the car is so high. Had I known the navigation system would be SO seriously crippled I most definitely would not have bought it. $2,400 for a backup camera without a fully functional nav system is a bit steep considering good backup cameras are available in the aftermarket for far less. Lexus' total silence on an unpopular characteristic makes me suspicious that the omission is intentional.

Some have made reference to the availability of the voice system for changing the destination enroute. Yes, you can go to an address, but all the other eight or ten methods available when stopped are impossible. Also, I found it has not ONCE understood my pronunciation of the street name, even at rest. And according to the observations of countless people over my life, I speak unaccented English a la Walter Kronkite. And that's the way it is, April 17th, 2007.

Some of the crippling is difficult to justify. When driving down the Interstate perhaps you are willing to stay at the NEAREST hotel, but I certainly am not. I want to be able to choose the town around which to search (nicer hotels are in the bigger towns) and to see a list of the hotels there ahead of time and call them to check on availability and price. Picking from a list certainly seems safer to me than pushing icons to see the hotels one by one. Or maybe I prefer Hampton Inns and only want to see them. "Sorry, if we told you that we'd have to kill you." I also agree with Rontenfour that pulling over on the shoulder of a road is dangerous, even on an Interstate, and probably more dangerous than touching the dashboard. I remember the family of seven that was decimated not ten miles from my home a few years ago. The surviving children are now orphans. Indeed, some states appear to agree that pulling over if it is avoidable is dangerous and thus prohibiting hitchhiking.

With about 85% of the miles I've driven since purchase having been with two people in the car, I find the crippling of the nav system under all conditions underway particularly disturbing. With all the talk of the relentless pursuit of perfection, you know they considered the impact on drivers of crippling the nav system even when they had a copilot. Why then did they decide to do nothing about it, particularly when weight sensors in the passenger seat already existed? That is the real question. And other companies consider the acceptance of an on-screen agreement adequate lawsuit protection. So what the heck is up with Lexus? Not all Lexus buyers are so senile they cannot drive and touch the dashboard at the same time. I agree the nav system is crackerjack... when I'm parked.

And one more bit of support for Rontenfour; countless times I have left the house without deciding in what order I would do my errands.

Rather than just complain about all this I did something. I researched extensively on the Net and within a day of my purchase found a way to hack the DVD in the nav system to regain the override available before 6.1 (menu, volume, top left, bottom left, top left, bottom left, override, back). It works fine, but I have learned I lost some voice capability for Bluetooth [this may be incorrect as I delved deeper into the manual tonight]. I am still considering whether the gain was worth the loss. But considering the system understands me for dialing at 70 mph no better than my father without his hearing aids, it does not seem to be such a great loss.

If you want to hack yours, you'll find all the information you need at http://toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.p...3730&page=3. Start with Black88mx6's post near the bottom of the page, then read through to the end of the thread for a complete explanation for a beginner. I got a good DVD that worked on the first try. Some programmers are now working to enable full functionality enroute without substituting the old file. That would avoid losing any features. You're welcome in advance!

Before I traded in my G35, I had two Infinitis, both with Navigation, neither of which can be programmed for anything but the first 6 entries in your address book while driving. It ain't just Lexus. Is it at all possible that the guys and gals who actually build cars for a living might actually know what they're doing?

I know a lot of people who complain that they can't watch a DVD in the front while driving. I know people who type messages on their Blackberry while driving. Just because somebody WANTS to do something doesn't mean they're right, customer or not. In the couple weeks I've had this car, I've drifted onto the lane markers more than once fooling around with the touchscreen while driving, even in its "crippled" state. Somebody in the passenger seat is no guarantee the driver isn't going to be programming the system - or distracted by the passenger doing it.

Is it really that big a deal to pull over for a second and program the thing? What's it like two minutes? Sheesh. What's the freakin' rush, America?

Again, what you're reading are posts on a internet message board. People join these things when they're really happy with their product, or really dissatisfied with it. You can't take opinions of people on here as being representative of the whole population who owns the car.

The Lexus nav system is awarded top honors when systems are reviewed all the time and consistantly is awarded top honors in consumer surveys comparing systems. It is a minority of you who this really bothers.

Your choice is to continue fuming, or to simply adapt to the system as it is.

third choice: remove the dash and cut the wires, thus voiding your warranty

OK, I am upset enough about this to the point where I am ready to cut the wires. Which/where is the thread explaining in a 430 which wires to cut and where to get to them? What I want to do is to make the car look like it is not moving, as far as the disabling software is concerned.

If you just cut the wire the nav system will no longer function. It uses the speed sensor to extrapolate the car's position in concert with the GPS signal. What you need is a switch, or override of the speed sensor and the ability to switch it back on.

If you have an 04 430, the menu override will work.

FYI, I have started a website dedicated to getting the navigation override restored. Please visit the site and be counted!

The site is http://www.lexusoverride.com and I would appreciate folks signing up. Your email addresses will be kept confidential and only used to update you on any changes in the Navigation system. In my mind, Lexus has misjudged their customers. This is a great way to let them know how many owners are dissatisfied with the new system.

Doug Bates

The system only had the override from 04-06, its not like its always had it.

I had the override in my '07 ES, but I had to take the car into Lexus service because the display was not showing my car in the proper position on the map. There was a TSB for this problem, so the repair was to change the DVD disc to an upgraded version. So, that took care of using the override. It doesn't work anymore.

I called Lexus. I called the dealer. They stonewalled me citing safety issues.

I posted the whole mess to: www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs if you want, post your feelings. I'm going to compile them and forward them to Lexus.

There is also a site called: www.lexusisnotmymother.com or www.lexusnav.com which is doing the same thing.

Lexus customer service said that they would look into the possibility of a rebate of some sort but that under no circumstances will they enable the system when in motion.

Can anyone say "class-action". Any attorneys want to step up and weigh in on this?

We shouldn't need override codes. It should work as advertised. We bought it, we should be able to use it. Period!

I disagree for these reasons:

1. A passenger can use the system safely, even in motion.
2. Other car makers don't treat their customers like children.
3. My $500 Garmin Nuvi doesn't have this restriction.
4. The car doesn't stop me from driving 120mph. The speed is "electronically limited to 137mph". Well, why don't they make it 85? There isn't a road in the country where it is legal to go faster. At least that would be in compliance with a law.
5. If I did drive 100+ mph and caused an accident, would anyone consider suing the car maker? Of course not. It would be my fault.

www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs

Add to your list the fact that a passenger would be able to input anything safely while the car is in motion. Well, they can't because of this silly limitation.

Please, if the programmers succeed, please let us all know. Also, please, if you would, post your comments to my site at www.jeffsstuff.com/blogs as I am putting together a list to forward to Lexus showing them the extent of the dissatisfaction.

It is attitudes like yours that hurt everyone. Consumers should get what they want, not what a company wants to provide.
If they simply disclosed the limitation before the sale, I would not complain (of course, I'd have skipped it in favor of an after market one).
Also, the car maker shouldn't be telling me how to use the car. Its that simple. I'm the one responsible for driving, I should be the one to decide how I can best do that safely, not the auto maker. I wouldn't use it while driving, but my passengers would. I should be trusted to do that. After all, the state trusts me to drive a 3500+ pound vehicle around. I would agree if there was a law, but there is none.

You wouldn't buy a car that doesn't run on Thursdays. Why by a nav system that doesn't work when driving (which is the majority of the time you are in the car!)
Lexus, give us what we paid for.