Lexus recommends Premium (91 octate) fuel for my "new to me" 2000 GS300. Anyone tried using Regular (87 octane) or mid-grade (89 octane)? What, besides pinging could I expect from using the lower prices and lower octane grade?
I have not seen any posts on this topic before and would appreciate some tecnical as well as non-tech replys.
Thnks.
Full Version: Regular Or Premium Unleaded Fuel?
i am suprised there are no previous posts
i just replied to one last week
try an open search in more than the gs section
that may e the difference to get some point of views
i say premuim and nothing else
i just replied to one last week
try an open search in more than the gs section
that may e the difference to get some point of views
i say premuim and nothing else
I say premium as well. Also note that the lower grade fuel burns quicker and I have heard that your car will not perform to it's peak capabilities. You do not want to put anything cheap in that expensive car of yours? 
Besides pinging? You make it sound like it's no big deal. 
Precombustion is a serious matter, in my opinion. Use the premium, or you'll lose performance too.
I use 91 octane as a minimum. When I'm taking a long trip or something I use 94.
-Dave
Precombustion is a serious matter, in my opinion. Use the premium, or you'll lose performance too.I use 91 octane as a minimum. When I'm taking a long trip or something I use 94.
-Dave
any one that tells you that it does not matter what fuel of octaine is a complete jerk off, its plain and simple the better octaine the better proformance, dont every go lower, your car will feel sluggish,
Here is some info I found on Engine Pinging:
In a normal non-pinging engine, the spark plug fires at the desired time and initiates a flame that moves across the combustion chamber consuming the air/fuel mixture as it goes. This flame increases the temperature and pressure in the cylinder and creates your power. When the combustion chamber temperatures get high enough, it is possible for the air/fuel mixture to spontaneously combust (pre-ignition). This is what happens when a car "diesels" on runs on after the ignition is turned off. Commonly the source of the ignition is from carbon deposits or simply a sharp edge on the piston or head surface.
When both pre-ignition and regular ignition occur simultaneously, you get two flame fronts moving towards each other. When they meet, they extinguish each other with a loud pop. That pop is the ping. This effect is similar to turning off the acetylene on an oxy/acetelene torch. The ping is not harmful. But it is an indication that there is something amiss, something that may be silently damaging you engine.
One source is excessive carbon buildup. That means nothing is wrong and the engine simply needs a good cleaning, ON THE INSIDE. The reason for the excessive carbon could be due to an oil consumption problem, either leaky valve seals or worn piston rings. Either way, the head needs to be removed to solve the root cause, the can be decarboned at the same time. An engine is normally good at burning away carbon on it's own. The problem could also be due to mal-adjusted carbs or a dirty air filter causing the engine to run way to rich. Again, that is a problem that needs correcting and a 1/2 bottle of Techron engine deposit cleaner will quiet it right up. In no case does the pinging from carbon cause engine damage.
The other cause of pinging is excessive cylinder temps. As the temps rise, the sharp edges of the piston will ignite the mixture. The excessive temperature will also start to melt the piston. Again this could be due to a number of situations. One case would be a dirty air cooled engine or a water cooled engine with some problem with the cooling system. The other possibly is that engine was designed to run that hot (like a race engine) and simply needs higher octane. This will in time cause engine damage, but it is again and indication of a problem. If the engine is dirty, higher octane will cause the pinging to go away, but it is still running too hot.
Contrary to what the gasoline companies advertise, engines never need to change octane. If a new engine is happy with 87 and at 40,000 miles starting pinging, that means is time for some maintenance, not higher octane. Many european cars and bikes need higher octane because of their better fuels. The US has the "worst" fuel in the world. Germany starts the fuel grades at 96 octane, the their engines are designed to need it. Now, many foreign manufacturers "de-tune" their engines to run on our 87 octane gas. If your engine needed 89 or 92 octane new, then that is what you must run. If it didn't need 92 new, and does now, look for a problem.
Now on the subject of a properly tuned engine pinging. Yes, they should ping, a little under certain conditions. Engineering is a field of compromise. You want the most power, the best fuel economy, the cleanest emissions, and the longest longevity out of any engine. But each of these conditions requires different tuning, generally opposite from each other.
An engine needs to be tuned to operate at a sweet spot that is the compromise of all requirements.
As I said earlier, pinging can be the result of high combustion temps, and this is the type you would expect to occur. High temps are caused by a combination of lean fuel and advanced timing. Lean fuel produces higher combustion temps and hence more power. It also produces higher emissions and potential engine damage.
When the engine is under sever load and a low RPM (like climbing a steep hill in top gear) then engine temperatures rise and will begin to ping. That is normal. That is desired. Yes, you are damaging the engine and melting the piston. (More on that later). That means that you have crossed the line are no longer is that compromise zone. That is good because engines are not meant to be operated in that fashion. PINGING MEANS IT IS TIME TO DOWNSHIFT.
Engines, particularly motorcycle engines, make their power in the upper 1/3 of the RPM range. If you are under sever load, you want the tachometer up near red line. That is where the engine was designed to run and it is by far the easiest on the motor. When you are lugging an engine, the oil pressure drops and the piston rods begin hammering against the crank shaft because there is no longer a high-pressure film of oil to prevent it. Likewise, the crankshaft in turn hammers against the block (or case). In either case, the damage you are doing to the bearings is far worse than the slight amount of aluminum being burned away. If you switch to a higher octane fuel to prevent the pinging, you may not realize you are destroying your bearings.
You could also retard your timing or richen the carbs to prevent pinging under severe load on whatever octane gas you desire. But again, this will mask the bearing damage you are doing. It also moves the threshold of that "sweet spot" downward. Now you will not have pinging under sever load, but you will also not have complete combustion under normal conditions (such as cruising), and that can lead to poor fuel economy and excessive carbon deposits.
In a nutshell, the engine should ping if properly adjusted, under low RPM, severe load conditions. Next, you should use your transmission to avoid those conditions.
Lifted from a reply by Larry Piekarski
I quess I'll pony up for the 91 octane.
Thanks
In a normal non-pinging engine, the spark plug fires at the desired time and initiates a flame that moves across the combustion chamber consuming the air/fuel mixture as it goes. This flame increases the temperature and pressure in the cylinder and creates your power. When the combustion chamber temperatures get high enough, it is possible for the air/fuel mixture to spontaneously combust (pre-ignition). This is what happens when a car "diesels" on runs on after the ignition is turned off. Commonly the source of the ignition is from carbon deposits or simply a sharp edge on the piston or head surface.
When both pre-ignition and regular ignition occur simultaneously, you get two flame fronts moving towards each other. When they meet, they extinguish each other with a loud pop. That pop is the ping. This effect is similar to turning off the acetylene on an oxy/acetelene torch. The ping is not harmful. But it is an indication that there is something amiss, something that may be silently damaging you engine.
One source is excessive carbon buildup. That means nothing is wrong and the engine simply needs a good cleaning, ON THE INSIDE. The reason for the excessive carbon could be due to an oil consumption problem, either leaky valve seals or worn piston rings. Either way, the head needs to be removed to solve the root cause, the can be decarboned at the same time. An engine is normally good at burning away carbon on it's own. The problem could also be due to mal-adjusted carbs or a dirty air filter causing the engine to run way to rich. Again, that is a problem that needs correcting and a 1/2 bottle of Techron engine deposit cleaner will quiet it right up. In no case does the pinging from carbon cause engine damage.
The other cause of pinging is excessive cylinder temps. As the temps rise, the sharp edges of the piston will ignite the mixture. The excessive temperature will also start to melt the piston. Again this could be due to a number of situations. One case would be a dirty air cooled engine or a water cooled engine with some problem with the cooling system. The other possibly is that engine was designed to run that hot (like a race engine) and simply needs higher octane. This will in time cause engine damage, but it is again and indication of a problem. If the engine is dirty, higher octane will cause the pinging to go away, but it is still running too hot.
Contrary to what the gasoline companies advertise, engines never need to change octane. If a new engine is happy with 87 and at 40,000 miles starting pinging, that means is time for some maintenance, not higher octane. Many european cars and bikes need higher octane because of their better fuels. The US has the "worst" fuel in the world. Germany starts the fuel grades at 96 octane, the their engines are designed to need it. Now, many foreign manufacturers "de-tune" their engines to run on our 87 octane gas. If your engine needed 89 or 92 octane new, then that is what you must run. If it didn't need 92 new, and does now, look for a problem.
Now on the subject of a properly tuned engine pinging. Yes, they should ping, a little under certain conditions. Engineering is a field of compromise. You want the most power, the best fuel economy, the cleanest emissions, and the longest longevity out of any engine. But each of these conditions requires different tuning, generally opposite from each other.
An engine needs to be tuned to operate at a sweet spot that is the compromise of all requirements.
As I said earlier, pinging can be the result of high combustion temps, and this is the type you would expect to occur. High temps are caused by a combination of lean fuel and advanced timing. Lean fuel produces higher combustion temps and hence more power. It also produces higher emissions and potential engine damage.
When the engine is under sever load and a low RPM (like climbing a steep hill in top gear) then engine temperatures rise and will begin to ping. That is normal. That is desired. Yes, you are damaging the engine and melting the piston. (More on that later). That means that you have crossed the line are no longer is that compromise zone. That is good because engines are not meant to be operated in that fashion. PINGING MEANS IT IS TIME TO DOWNSHIFT.
Engines, particularly motorcycle engines, make their power in the upper 1/3 of the RPM range. If you are under sever load, you want the tachometer up near red line. That is where the engine was designed to run and it is by far the easiest on the motor. When you are lugging an engine, the oil pressure drops and the piston rods begin hammering against the crank shaft because there is no longer a high-pressure film of oil to prevent it. Likewise, the crankshaft in turn hammers against the block (or case). In either case, the damage you are doing to the bearings is far worse than the slight amount of aluminum being burned away. If you switch to a higher octane fuel to prevent the pinging, you may not realize you are destroying your bearings.
You could also retard your timing or richen the carbs to prevent pinging under severe load on whatever octane gas you desire. But again, this will mask the bearing damage you are doing. It also moves the threshold of that "sweet spot" downward. Now you will not have pinging under sever load, but you will also not have complete combustion under normal conditions (such as cruising), and that can lead to poor fuel economy and excessive carbon deposits.
In a nutshell, the engine should ping if properly adjusted, under low RPM, severe load conditions. Next, you should use your transmission to avoid those conditions.
Lifted from a reply by Larry Piekarski
I quess I'll pony up for the 91 octane.
Thanks
or you can mix a 50/50 mixture of mid and premium grade to save that extra penny 
to get 91. but i would rather spend the little extra $$$ for my lex!!!
to get 91. but i would rather spend the little extra $$$ for my lex!!!
remember that we have LUXURY cars meaning that we shoud spend a little extra money on things that we normaly wouldnt need to on a economy car like gas. so just put in the 91
I actually sell racing fuels and octanes. I would take exception to the U.S. having the worst fuel in the world. That would be China and India. It is true though that the octane values fo fuels do tend to be higher in Europe.....
If you have modified the engine such that it requires higher octane or Nos, then you already know you need a higher octane fuel. Otherwise, using the Fuel recommended by the manufacturer is critical to maintaining your warranty. If your warranty has expired, please continue to use the recommended fuel - with the following considerations:
As previously discussed, pinging or clattering can result from a build up of carbon deposits - which can increase the compression ratio (and heat) in the cylinder. If the warrenty has expired and pinging starts, the engine may have had an increase in octane demand - beyond the the octane capacity of the originally recommended fuel.
The engine needs decarbonizing or a tune up. Extended operation with pinging or clattering can (and probably will) cause engine damage over time. Service the vehicle and see if this stops the pinging. If it doesn't, go to the next higher level of octane, or try fuel from another station.
If you have modified the engine such that it requires higher octane or Nos, then you already know you need a higher octane fuel. Otherwise, using the Fuel recommended by the manufacturer is critical to maintaining your warranty. If your warranty has expired, please continue to use the recommended fuel - with the following considerations:
As previously discussed, pinging or clattering can result from a build up of carbon deposits - which can increase the compression ratio (and heat) in the cylinder. If the warrenty has expired and pinging starts, the engine may have had an increase in octane demand - beyond the the octane capacity of the originally recommended fuel.
The engine needs decarbonizing or a tune up. Extended operation with pinging or clattering can (and probably will) cause engine damage over time. Service the vehicle and see if this stops the pinging. If it doesn't, go to the next higher level of octane, or try fuel from another station.
I only use Sunoco Super 94 octane....
Surely it's been asked before, but which grade of gas is most recommended?
Some friends say to fill up once a month with the high octane stuff, and use mid-grade the rest of the month.
Others say mid-grade all the time is sufficient.
???
Some friends say to fill up once a month with the high octane stuff, and use mid-grade the rest of the month.
Others say mid-grade all the time is sufficient.
???
In my 92 ES I use 92 octane all the time.
| QUOTE (MrSypher @ Jul 19 2003, 01:48 AM) |
| I only use Sunoco Super 94 octane.... |
Where can you buy 94 octane? Is it at some special super gas station or what?
Only Sunoco Gas Stations sell 94 out here...
use what it says in you owner's manual.
steviej
steviej
I agree, the owners manual specifies premium, I always use premium.
Here is what it says in my 2003 ES Owners Manual.
exxon 93 octane @ $1.89 9/10th per gallon 
Wow Alan, I must have buzzed right over that, I thought it specified 91 or higher only...
Nevermind then, I suppose you can run 87 with no problems.
Nevermind then, I suppose you can run 87 with no problems.
I just took a trip from New York City to Minnetonka, Minnesota. I was using the regular grade of gas on my way out and premium grade on the way back to see if I noticed a performance difference. I did this to check whether the transmission operated any better(shifting hesitation) with the premium over the regular. Well, it didn't perform any better as far as I was concerned! There was no difference as far as mpg.....I averaged between 27.5 and 29.5 mpg at speeds between 65mph and 85mph. This I might add was mostly turnpike driving. I never heard any pinging going up the Allegheny mountains of Pennsylvania with the regular gas! The car had 1500 miles on the odometer when I started this trip and I ended up with about 4700 miles. Aside from the tranny glitches the car ran beautifully. I can't wait to get out on the open road again.
same here!i only use sunoco 94 its the best around here!
i personally use 93 octane in my '93. basically because i've been bred to use premium for premium cars.
94 octane sunoco here!i never use anything less.pay extra now save extra in the long run!
SW03ES, it is very odd,
the 02 and 03 are basically the same car with the addition of adjustable pedals in the 03.
BUT:
the 02 manual calls for premium and says a lesser grade could be used in a pinch.
the 03 manual calls for regular grade and says to use premium for improved performance.
My guess is too many people complained that they "had" to buy premium so the coorporate suits reworded the section to quiet the masses and keep their behinds covered.
steviej
the 02 and 03 are basically the same car with the addition of adjustable pedals in the 03.
BUT:
the 02 manual calls for premium and says a lesser grade could be used in a pinch.
the 03 manual calls for regular grade and says to use premium for improved performance.
My guess is too many people complained that they "had" to buy premium so the coorporate suits reworded the section to quiet the masses and keep their behinds covered.
steviej
Really Steve? I looked at mine, and sure enough it does say 87 is acceptable. Maybe its something as simple as a reprogram of the ECU between the two years. Probably like you said, people couldn't understand why the ES required premium while the Camry did not.
Actually, there's no difference between the 02 and the 03, because none of the 03s even shipped with the adjustable pedals. Mine doesn't have it, and I couldnt find one that did.
Actually, there's no difference between the 02 and the 03, because none of the 03s even shipped with the adjustable pedals. Mine doesn't have it, and I couldnt find one that did.
I have adjustable pedals! Oooh, I feel unique now
I personally use 87 octane, running at $1.77 per gallon (chevron with techron, although the only reason i actually go to chevron is itz two blocks from my house )
I personally use 87 octane, running at $1.77 per gallon (chevron with techron, although the only reason i actually go to chevron is itz two blocks from my house
)
Wow I never heard of them before. Do you actually feel a difference from 91 octane to 94?
chillaxin,
Was your car equipped with Adaptive Variable Suspension also? When I was shopping for my '03 ES I spoke to at least 5 dealers in my area(New York City, New Jersey, Connecticut) and that option and the variable height pedals were unavailable.
Was your car equipped with Adaptive Variable Suspension also? When I was shopping for my '03 ES I spoke to at least 5 dealers in my area(New York City, New Jersey, Connecticut) and that option and the variable height pedals were unavailable.
Yup, I got the adaptive variable suspension also! although I had no idea that was the actual full name of it. But it's a pretty cool feature to have, being able to switch from sport suspension to comfort suspension. There's actually four different settings you can adjust your suspension to. Gives me something to talk about when people get in my car
although I had no idea that was the actual full name of it. But it's a pretty cool feature to have, being able to switch from sport suspension to comfort suspension. There's actually four different settings you can adjust your suspension to. Gives me something to talk about when people get in my car
One other question chillaxin:
Do you have the transmission problem that have been plaguing owners of '02-'03 ES's?
Do you have the transmission problem that have been plaguing owners of '02-'03 ES's?
What transmission problem? If I do have a transmission problem, I haven't noticed it. I'm assuming that the transmission problem you're referring to is the hesitation in acceleration and stuff, but my car's been pretty responsive, sorry, don't hate me for having a car with barely any problems!
I just spoke to Lexus about this hesitation that plagues ALL '02-'03 ES models and they are definitely aware of it. He told me the fix is forthcoming this Fall or definitely by the end of this year.
Here is a paragraph from the Edmunds website exactly describing this problem:
"The V6 has been mated to a new transmission, upgraded from a four-speed to a closer-ratio five-gear unit. Upshifts are crisp enough, but downshifts are sludgy and come only after the car thinks about it for a while. Under most normal driving circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable, but trying to wring some spirit out of the ES 300 is more of an exercise in futility; it's as if some goblin had poured butterscotch sauce into the fluid reservoir. This could be attributed to our test car's status as a prototype vehicle; future production units could be in for more fine-tuning."
I have driven more than 12 '02-'03 ES's and everyone of them exhibited this glitch. I guess you feel that this is normal shifting.....but it isn't, and I'm sure if I drove your car I could show you exactly what I mean.
Here is a paragraph from the Edmunds website exactly describing this problem:
"The V6 has been mated to a new transmission, upgraded from a four-speed to a closer-ratio five-gear unit. Upshifts are crisp enough, but downshifts are sludgy and come only after the car thinks about it for a while. Under most normal driving circumstances, it's perfectly acceptable, but trying to wring some spirit out of the ES 300 is more of an exercise in futility; it's as if some goblin had poured butterscotch sauce into the fluid reservoir. This could be attributed to our test car's status as a prototype vehicle; future production units could be in for more fine-tuning."
I have driven more than 12 '02-'03 ES's and everyone of them exhibited this glitch. I guess you feel that this is normal shifting.....but it isn't, and I'm sure if I drove your car I could show you exactly what I mean.
I don't know, there might be the same problem with my car, but the responsiveness of the transmission and such feels the same as my dad's gs. I've been able to keep my car to be as responsive as the gs, so maybe I don't feel the same glitches, or I don't feel it to be a glitch. But maybe if you did drive my car with me in it, you'd be able to point it out, and I'd be like ooooh!
A couple of months ago I flew out to Long Beach, CA and rented a Nissan Maxima. I was really impressed with the performance of that car, transmission, et al. Of course it wasn't as quiet or refined as my car but nevertheless it did what I wanted it to do properly when driving on the freeways.
BTW: The newer GS series also has this transmission hesitation from what I have been told by Lexus mechanics.
BTW: The newer GS series also has this transmission hesitation from what I have been told by Lexus mechanics.
my dad's gs was a 98, did the 98 have the same transmission problem?
Wow Chill, you have a really rare car. The AVS option and the pedals are both two of those "phantom" options that Lexus only ships at special request, be it from a dealership or a customer. Does your car have the wood/leather wheel, HID headlights, Nav system etc?
Generally Lexus only ships ES's two ways. One way is with the premium package, leather, memory, HID, wood/leather wheel, auto wipers. This is what steviej has. Two is with the navigation/mark levinson package, the rear sunshade, the VSC this is what Alan and I have. I've seen a couple weird ones at the dealer, one without the wood/leather wheel and the HID etc. But never one with the AVS or the power pedals.
Did you order the car or just find it on the lot? If you just found it, then odds are it was a cancelled order from someone else.
Alan re: shift problem. I've never really noticed the shift problem unless I'm trying to make it hesitate. My guess is that certain driving styles are immune to the issue. I'm a pretty aggressive driver, but I tend to hold the throttle off from full for more control. I did however register it with Lexus as having the issue to speed up finding a fix. The more complaints, the faster they work.
Generally Lexus only ships ES's two ways. One way is with the premium package, leather, memory, HID, wood/leather wheel, auto wipers. This is what steviej has. Two is with the navigation/mark levinson package, the rear sunshade, the VSC this is what Alan and I have. I've seen a couple weird ones at the dealer, one without the wood/leather wheel and the HID etc. But never one with the AVS or the power pedals.
Did you order the car or just find it on the lot? If you just found it, then odds are it was a cancelled order from someone else.
Alan re: shift problem. I've never really noticed the shift problem unless I'm trying to make it hesitate. My guess is that certain driving styles are immune to the issue. I'm a pretty aggressive driver, but I tend to hold the throttle off from full for more control. I did however register it with Lexus as having the issue to speed up finding a fix. The more complaints, the faster they work.
wow, i feel special now that i know i have a rare car
mine has the avs, pedals, plus the wood/leather wheel and shifter, rear sunshade, HIDs, navigation, mark levinson, and so on and so forth
I didn't order the car specifically, but I didn't find it on the lot either. When I was buying the car, I told them that I wanted a fully loaded one, with all the options, in black and ivory. I don't know if the order was cancelled or whatevers, but I do know that the dealer that I bought the car from didn't have the one I specifically wanted, so they had to dealer trade for it. But the other dealer was a little far, so I ended up getting the car with about 100 miles on it, which I didn't mind because I got them to knock off another $50 off the price of the car. But as far as I know, I think the cars in so cal all have all the options if you buy it fully loaded, although I might be wrong
mine has the avs, pedals, plus the wood/leather wheel and shifter, rear sunshade, HIDs, navigation, mark levinson, and so on and so forth
I didn't order the car specifically, but I didn't find it on the lot either. When I was buying the car, I told them that I wanted a fully loaded one, with all the options, in black and ivory. I don't know if the order was cancelled or whatevers, but I do know that the dealer that I bought the car from didn't have the one I specifically wanted, so they had to dealer trade for it. But the other dealer was a little far, so I ended up getting the car with about 100 miles on it, which I didn't mind because I got them to knock off another $50 off the price of the car. But as far as I know, I think the cars in so cal all have all the options if you buy it fully loaded, although I might be wrong
Wow, a REALLy rare one LOL. I know of one other like that, on the cardomain site in the same color as mine.
I would have pressed them, but I'm leery of adaptive suspensions, they're really expensive when they fail.
I would have pressed them, but I'm leery of adaptive suspensions, they're really expensive when they fail.
| QUOTE |
| The benchmark for near-luxury comfort and absorbency, compromised only by mild pattering on broken pavement and mild float on big humpbacks. Optional Adaptive Variable Suspension too soft in Comfort mode, a bit hard in Sport, and feels like regular chassis on in-between settings, so why bother? |
SW03ES: This is why I didn't feel too bad about this option not included in my car. Also, since I'm the only driver I really didn't care about readjusting the pedal heights.
Doesn't it sound like sour grapes since I didn't get them on my car?hehehe
I read that too Alan, but I read it after I already had the car, made me feel better LOL.
"Phhht, I'm such a smart guy for not getting THAT crap!"
"Phhht, I'm such a smart guy for not getting THAT crap!"
While crusing at about 80 for a while... rpm is about 2500... ES is excelent... extreme quiet...
My breaking period is over.... I have driven very conservative for the first 1500.
Road was empty.... no exit in the next 8 miles... no cars in front of me for 1+ mile... behind also clear... so let's try...
I pressed pedal down little hard...... no response.... rpm not change... It didn't pick up right away.... a little (hesitate) no respond for about half or almost a second... and . then zroom.... rpm was up at 3200+... (engine noise was clearly heard.. I think it shifted gear down....)... then the car moving forward....
Is it (little hesitate) same for you... ??... my old Daytona respond very quick...
amf1932: "... averaged between 27.5 and 29.5 mpg at speeds between 65mph and 85mph....."
- I use premium... my last weekend 300 miles trip... also most on turnpike... at 70-90 mph... is just 23 mpg...
- Conservative drive at 60-70 mph... I also have not get more than 25mpg...
My breaking period is over.... I have driven very conservative for the first 1500.
Road was empty.... no exit in the next 8 miles... no cars in front of me for 1+ mile... behind also clear... so let's try...
I pressed pedal down little hard...... no response.... rpm not change... It didn't pick up right away.... a little (hesitate) no respond for about half or almost a second... and . then zroom.... rpm was up at 3200+... (engine noise was clearly heard.. I think it shifted gear down....)... then the car moving forward....
Is it (little hesitate) same for you... ??... my old Daytona respond very quick...
amf1932: "... averaged between 27.5 and 29.5 mpg at speeds between 65mph and 85mph....."
- I use premium... my last weekend 300 miles trip... also most on turnpike... at 70-90 mph... is just 23 mpg...
- Conservative drive at 60-70 mph... I also have not get more than 25mpg...
Yep, thats it. You confused the shift computer. You push the gas, it says "what?".
If you's been smoother with the gas in and held it about 3/4 instead of all the way down, it wouldn't have happened.
If you's been smoother with the gas in and held it about 3/4 instead of all the way down, it wouldn't have happened.
| QUOTE (E Dawg @ Jul 21 2003, 05:27 AM) |
| Wow I never heard of them before. Do you actually feel a difference from 91 octane to 94? |
I think you'll get mixed results whether or not if people really feel the difference.. To me it's the same and if when I sometimes do feel the difference I usually think it's just in my head..
lexdriver,
Yeah, you got that right.....it's as if the transmission developed a case of Alzheimers disease and doesn't know what gear to go into for about ˝ to 1 second!!
As far as my gas mileage: I got the 29.5mpg when I did ALL turnpike driving averaging about 70mph with either regular or premium fuel.
The mpg would drop off a lot if I went thru city traffic or increased my top speed to over 75mph. I think if I drove your car the same as mine I would average the same mpg. I doubt whether there is anything wrong with your car.......just driver habits. I bet if you drove a constant 60mph you'd get about 40mpg. My odometer was also 1500 miles when I started this trip.
Yeah, you got that right.....it's as if the transmission developed a case of Alzheimers disease and doesn't know what gear to go into for about ˝ to 1 second!!
As far as my gas mileage: I got the 29.5mpg when I did ALL turnpike driving averaging about 70mph with either regular or premium fuel.
The mpg would drop off a lot if I went thru city traffic or increased my top speed to over 75mph. I think if I drove your car the same as mine I would average the same mpg. I doubt whether there is anything wrong with your car.......just driver habits. I bet if you drove a constant 60mph you'd get about 40mpg.
My odometer was also 1500 miles when I started this trip.
Nice new logo Syph. 
Yeap.. agree... I pressed the pedal little too quick.... . Just tried again... slowly..... it... flawless...
- When I accelerate slowly.. gear doesn't change.. only rpm.. gradually increase... (that's why it smooth)
- When I did it quickly.... I think gear dropped...
So (I think) probably it just the way of how Electronic Throttle Control System works…
- With the traditional cable: You press pedal => vale open => gas come out => engine response => car move
- With the Electronic Throttle: press gas pedal => signal send to computer... computer get the current information (how hard pedal press, current gear, current speed) and execute its if/else logical => after solving that equation then decide what the best (as programmed) to do
You: suddenly press hard on gas pedal
Computer: "... Everybody.. listen... the result of our Alzheimers program show that our boss want to speed up... So let do it quick ...
(That explain for the dealy) and as the result of lower gear and more gas…... => vzooom....
Happy driving everybody...
- When I accelerate slowly.. gear doesn't change.. only rpm.. gradually increase... (that's why it smooth)
- When I did it quickly.... I think gear dropped...
So (I think) probably it just the way of how Electronic Throttle Control System works…
- With the traditional cable: You press pedal => vale open => gas come out => engine response => car move
- With the Electronic Throttle: press gas pedal => signal send to computer... computer get the current information (how hard pedal press, current gear, current speed) and execute its if/else logical => after solving that equation then decide what the best (as programmed) to do
You: suddenly press hard on gas pedal
Computer: "... Everybody.. listen... the result of our Alzheimers program show that our boss want to speed up... So let do it quick ...
- Transmission: change to low gear...
- And you.. gas: the gas pedal has been pressed so hard... so pump more gas to engine... "...
(That explain for the dealy) and as the result of lower gear and more gas…... => vzooom....
Happy driving everybody...
haha, great explanation!
lexdriver
I was hysterical reading your post about how the transmission brain works. You should send it to the tech people in Japan.....maybe they could understand the problem better. hehehe
I was hysterical reading your post about how the transmission brain works. You should send it to the tech people in Japan.....maybe they could understand the problem better. hehehe
Little thought about the Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and Traction Control
With Electronic Throttle Control System... allows the computer.. easy to control the car.. by applying brake, power (or little gas)... to keep the car go straight...
If computer has little hesitate with quickly acceleration.... the equation already complex... then if also applying the VSC control, Traction control..
if it also has hesitate then: a sudden acceleration... with (unknown when/which) some braking apply.... on (unknown when/which) tire.... =>.... roller coast experience may occur..
We all love our beauty ES.... so I don't think... you want to sudden change acceleration at sloppy curves...rite ??......
Hey... don't test it ... (unless you check financial report of Lexus and discuss it first with your lawyer :-)
===========================================
From Lexus web site:
"... Lexus Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VSC will be effective in preventing a loss of control..."
With Electronic Throttle Control System... allows the computer.. easy to control the car.. by applying brake, power (or little gas)... to keep the car go straight...
If computer has little hesitate with quickly acceleration.... the equation already complex... then if also applying the VSC control, Traction control..
if it also has hesitate then: a sudden acceleration... with (unknown when/which) some braking apply.... on (unknown when/which) tire.... =>.... roller coast experience may occur..
We all love our beauty ES.... so I don't think... you want to sudden change acceleration at sloppy curves...rite ??......
Hey... don't test it ... (unless you check financial report of Lexus and discuss it first with your lawyer :-)
===========================================
From Lexus web site:
"... Lexus Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) is an electronic system designed to help the driver maintain vehicle control under adverse conditions. It is not a substitute for safe driving practices. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver steering input can all affect whether VSC will be effective in preventing a loss of control..."
About the mpg:
Observing the mpg on the information driving status display... give me an idea.. (probably) can increase our mpg
(*) It requires little interactive from us..
Hey... I don’t know whether it is harmful (for the car) or not
Assume you want to travel a distance of 60 miles... let's say on highway..
Assume the slope of the road is minimal.. (you are driving on very smooth turnpike )
1. Constant:
If you hold your gas pedal steady...(like you using your cruse)... your car moving at 60mph ... the mpg will be for example 30mpg
=> it will take you 1 hour to complete.. and 2 gallons
2. UP/DOWN:
(theory as the multi-information display on the odometer)
UP : If you speed up to 65mph.. (gas: 20mpg)..
DOWN: then release gas pedal...car gradually slow down (gas: 99.9mpg)..
then when it slow to example 55 mph... repeat cycle a gain.. speed up to 65 mph
=> 1 minutes to reach 65 mph 20 mpg
1 minutes free drive 99.9 mpg
your speed avg will be 60 mph... => you still complete your distance travel in 1 hour
your gas consume avg ( 20 + 99.9 ) / 2 = 60 mpg
Of course.. we don't want to drive like a hiccup 1 up/ 1 down... then up.. then down.. Unless you want to achieve 60mpg (as the theory) :-)..
if the gas price go up $5 (and the theory is correct)... just imagine... on the turnpike... cars are all driving that same pattern... We will have a radio station... broadcasting the rhythm.. so everybody will drive in that harmony....
For our daily driving: if we can use the acceleration (UP).. for passing.. and do a lot of release pedal (DOWN) when cruising... according to the computer calculation.. => we can increase our mpg..
Observing the mpg on the information driving status display... give me an idea.. (probably) can increase our mpg
(*) It requires little interactive from us..
Hey... I don’t know whether it is harmful (for the car) or not
Assume you want to travel a distance of 60 miles... let's say on highway..
Assume the slope of the road is minimal.. (you are driving on very smooth turnpike )
1. Constant:
If you hold your gas pedal steady...(like you using your cruse)... your car moving at 60mph ... the mpg will be for example 30mpg
=> it will take you 1 hour to complete.. and 2 gallons
2. UP/DOWN:
(theory as the multi-information display on the odometer)
UP : If you speed up to 65mph.. (gas: 20mpg)..
DOWN: then release gas pedal...car gradually slow down (gas: 99.9mpg)..
then when it slow to example 55 mph... repeat cycle a gain.. speed up to 65 mph
=> 1 minutes to reach 65 mph 20 mpg
1 minutes free drive 99.9 mpg
your speed avg will be 60 mph... => you still complete your distance travel in 1 hour
your gas consume avg ( 20 + 99.9 ) / 2 = 60 mpg
Of course.. we don't want to drive like a hiccup 1 up/ 1 down... then up.. then down.. Unless you want to achieve 60mpg (as the theory) :-)..
if the gas price go up $5 (and the theory is correct)... just imagine... on the turnpike... cars are all driving that same pattern... We will have a radio station... broadcasting the rhythm.. so everybody will drive in that harmony....
For our daily driving: if we can use the acceleration (UP).. for passing.. and do a lot of release pedal (DOWN) when cruising... according to the computer calculation.. => we can increase our mpg..
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